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Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st

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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 16 Apr 2017, 12:42
Hi Experts, i have a query can we not eliminate abc on the basis of that as we always use where when addressing location?
1 more thing what is the anticident of this predator?
Thanks

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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 16 Apr 2017, 20:15
In the correct answer option E, the mention is of wolves whereas in the non-underlined portion the reference to "this predator" seems confusing to me.
This predator is singular and wolves is plural.
Can anybody clarify please?

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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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Hi Experts, i have a query can we not eliminate abc on the basis of that as we always use where when addressing location?


Good question, shalabhg27. I don't think that the GMAT is particularly rigid on this. Sure, if you use the word "where", it would have to modify a place or location -- but you could use "that" to modify a location, too.

  • The restaurant that serves a Polish buffet is one of Chicago's most legendary eateries.
  • Someday, I want to live in a country that has a reasonable health care system.

Both of these seem completely acceptable to me, even though "that" modifies a location in each case ("restaurant" and "country", respectively). So I wouldn't say that "where" is necessary when you're modifying a place or location.

Quote:
1 more thing what is the anticident of this predator?

Quote:
In the correct answer option E, the mention is of wolves whereas in the non-underlined portion the reference to "this predator" seems confusing to me.
This predator is singular and wolves is plural.
Can anybody clarify please?


Ugh -- this part is trickier, and I don't really like what the GMAT has done here. First, you don't technically need an antecedent for "this predator", since "this predator" isn't a pronoun. But the singular/plural thing is a little bit funky: the sentence would probably be a little bit better if (E) said "these predators" (to match the word "wolves") instead of "this predator."

But to be fair, I don't think that the singular/plural issue is all that much of a crime in this case. Again, "this predator" isn't a pronoun; if "this predator" were changed to "it" in (E), then the answer choice would be inarguably wrong, since "it" can't refer to "wolves." But since "this predator" isn't a pronoun, I think the GMAT would argue that there's no ambiguity here: we still easily understand what, exactly, "this predator" is. Again, I don't love it, but I see their point.

More importantly: remember that the GMAT never asks you to identify a perfect answer choice. They're asking you to identify the best of the five options. Or the least crappy of the five options. As plenty of others have suggested, there are more severe problems with the other four answer choices -- and the little singular/plural issue in (E) is pretty minor by comparison.
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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2017, 08:00
Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that still has a sizable wolf population, and where this predator remains the archenemy of cattle and sheep.

A. that still has a sizable wolf population, and where That is referring to States and it must have ‘have’ instead of ‘has’

B. that still has a sizable wolf population, where same as A

C. that still has a sizable population of wolves, and where same as A

D. where the population of wolves is still sizable; It is changing he meaning. As per the original sentence we must convey the meaning that those states have two things. But this sentence conveys only one things and makes the other thing as a part of Independent clause. Hence, incorrect.

E. where there is still a sizable population of wolves and where
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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jul 2017, 02:41
Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that still has a sizable wolf population, and where this predator remains the archenemy of cattle and sheep.

(A) that still has a sizable wolf population, and where
(B) that still has a sizable wolf population, where
(C) that still has a sizable population of wolves, and where
(D) where the population of wolves is still sizable;
(E) where there is still a sizable population of wolves and where
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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jul 2017, 04:39
use of proper conjunction,,,clearly E wins

ans E

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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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Choice D woefully misses the conjunction that bridges Minnesota with the un-underlined part of the sentence, resulting in a debate as to what purpose the second part serves after separated from the main part, by a semicolon.

In B, doesn’t the pronoun where, by virtue of its placement, modify population, which is wrong?

Though wordy, by using where for both the parts of the sentence and also by employing the more customary population of wolves rather than the odd wolf population, E seems to stand out IMO


Hey daagh , is 'population of wolves' better than 'wolf population' ? I am considering the "THIS" right after the underlined part.
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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jul 2017, 05:55
rekhabishop wrote:
daagh wrote:
Choice D woefully misses the conjunction that bridges Minnesota with the un-underlined part of the sentence, resulting in a debate as to what purpose the second part serves after separated from the main part, by a semicolon.

In B, doesn’t the pronoun where, by virtue of its placement, modify population, which is wrong?

Though wordy, by using where for both the parts of the sentence and also by employing the more customary population of wolves rather than the odd wolf population, E seems to stand out IMO


Hey daagh , is 'population of wolves' better than 'wolf population' ? I am considering the "THIS" right after the underlined part.


rekhabishop ,,,, the term ' wolf population ' can mean something else too... population of wolves clears the air

certainly recommend the second one..

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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jul 2017, 07:55
mohshu wrote:
rekhabishop wrote:
daagh wrote:
Choice D woefully misses the conjunction that bridges Minnesota with the un-underlined part of the sentence, resulting in a debate as to what purpose the second part serves after separated from the main part, by a semicolon.

In B, doesn’t the pronoun where, by virtue of its placement, modify population, which is wrong?

Though wordy, by using where for both the parts of the sentence and also by employing the more customary population of wolves rather than the odd wolf population, E seems to stand out IMO


Hey daagh , is 'population of wolves' better than 'wolf population' ? I am considering the "THIS" right after the underlined part.


rekhabishop ,,,, the term ' wolf population ' can mean something else too... population of wolves clears the air

certainly recommend the second one..

What would be the other interpretation of wolf population? and does this have nothing to do with the "this" after underlined part?

Sorry for too many question. :p
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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 19 Aug 2017, 17:10
BPHASDEU wrote:
where and where - should be parallel

Two parallel clauses often both start with subordinators in order to remove ambiguity. In this instance, the subordinator must be repeated for both clauses!


Okay, so my understanding is that where is functioning as an adjective in this sentence, describing Minnesota. What does that mean for the requirements of parallelism in this sentence? Any tips, GMATNinja?

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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2017, 21:40
Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that still has a sizable wolf population, and where this predator remains the archenemy of cattle and sheep.

(A) that still has a sizable wolf population, and where :-

In this sentence wolf is working as an adjective so we don't have appropriate antecedent for "this predator".
(B) that still has a sizable wolf population, where
(C) that still has a sizable population of wolves, and where :- Not parallel

The use of comma is wrong as it is X and Y structure. until unless X and Y are two independent clause no need of comma.

(D) where the population of wolves is still sizable; :- Separate two clauses with semi colon.
(E) where there is still a sizable population of wolves and where

I believe wolves is correct, as this predator stands for the entire group of wolves. It is not talking about some specific wolf.

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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 20 Sep 2017, 12:58
if an expert can please solidify my thinking here, that would be great:

- at first upon re-reviewing this question, i thought "where" was an error b/c there is no physical location immediately following/preceding the position "where" is in, in the sentence.

-- however, upon reading it again, i'm considering that "where" can tie back in to Minnesota. in fact, for the correct answer, both "where"s tie back to "Minnesota". correct?
> Broader take-away being the GMAT does not necessarily have to insert a location immediately before/after "where" in a sentence...there could be some words/phrases separating the two components

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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 21 Sep 2017, 11:01
LakerFan24 wrote:
if an expert can please solidify my thinking here, that would be great:

- at first upon re-reviewing this question, i thought "where" was an error b/c there is no physical location immediately following/preceding the position "where" is in, in the sentence.

-- however, upon reading it again, i'm considering that "where" can tie back in to Minnesota. in fact, for the correct answer, both "where"s tie back to "Minnesota". correct?
> Broader take-away being the GMAT does not necessarily have to insert a location immediately before/after "where" in a sentence...there could be some words/phrases separating the two components

As a longtime Warriors fan, I cannot, in good conscience, answer any of your queries, LakerFan24. ;)

Just kidding. The Lakers are going to be really, really fun to watch this year. And next year, once they get LeBron. And the entire NBA will be better when the Lakers are good again.

Anyway, I think that there are a couple of ways to think about this:

  • All five answer choices are basically structured the same way, with the modifier (starting with either "that" or "where") following the phrase "Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states." So it's clearly a moot point in the eyes of the GMAT: all five answer choices are structured the same way, so you don't really have to worry about the modifier placement. (If you're concerned about "that" vs. "where", check out my post above: https://gmatclub.com/forum/minnesota-is ... l#p1838805)
  • In this particular example, I think we could debate whether the modifier "where there is still a sizable population" refers to "Minnesota" or "one of the only states" (which, of course, is the same thing as saying "Minnesota"). Either way, it makes perfect sense.
  • More broadly, it can be perfectly OK to stick some sort of modifier between "where" and the location/place it modifies. Example: "In 2012, I moved to Colorado, the most beautiful and drunken state in the country, where beer flows from mountain streams." Sure, "where" is a little ways from "Colorado", but it's still perfectly clear.

I hope this helps!
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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 21 Oct 2017, 03:02
PTK wrote:
dkverma wrote:
Can someone explain in detail why E is correct.



Look here:

Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that still has a sizable wolf population, and where this predator remains the archenemy of cattle and sheep.

(A) that still has a sizable wolf population, and where
(B) that still has a sizable wolf population, where
(C) that still has a sizable population of wolves, and where
(D) where the population of wolves is still sizable; - gramatically is correct but needs conjunction to show the logical relationship between two independent clauses, rather tah semicolon that implies their equality
(E) where there is still a sizable population of wolves and where

Remember: when two clauses are introduced than both of them must be parallel either “that….that” OR “where….where” (it is wrong to use “that….where”)


Hi Experts,

I was really bumped after seeing the OA of this question. :( In the correct answer option E, wolves are mentioned, whereas in the non-underlined portion the reference to "this predator" confused me and I directly rejected this option. This predator is singular and "wolves" is plural. Though that part is clear after reading the GMATNinja's explanation. :)

But I have one quick question. "that" and "where" both are relative pronouns so why they cannot be parallel? ALso, can someone elaborate why options A and C are incorrect??
Someone has mentioned : Parallelisms error: we can not place that clause parallel to where clause. Is that correct? I maybe asking a silly question but I am confused and really need to clear my confusion.

When "that" and "where" both can be used to refer to a location as GMATNinja also pointed above, then why they cannot be parallel??

daagh mikemcgarry

Thanks.
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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 05 Nov 2017, 05:17
aceGMAT21 wrote:
PTK wrote:
dkverma wrote:
Can someone explain in detail why E is correct.



Look here:

Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that still has a sizable wolf population, and where this predator remains the archenemy of cattle and sheep.

(A) that still has a sizable wolf population, and where
(B) that still has a sizable wolf population, where
(C) that still has a sizable population of wolves, and where
(D) where the population of wolves is still sizable; - gramatically is correct but needs conjunction to show the logical relationship between two independent clauses, rather tah semicolon that implies their equality
(E) where there is still a sizable population of wolves and where

Remember: when two clauses are introduced than both of them must be parallel either “that….that” OR “where….where” (it is wrong to use “that….where”)


Hi Experts,

I was really bumped after seeing the OA of this question. :( In the correct answer option E, wolves are mentioned, whereas in the non-underlined portion the reference to "this predator" confused me and I directly rejected this option. This predator is singular and "wolves" is plural. Though that part is clear after reading the GMATNinja's explanation. :)

But I have one quick question. "that" and "where" both are relative pronouns so why they cannot be parallel? ALso, can someone elaborate why options A and C are incorrect??
Someone has mentioned : Parallelisms error: we can not place that clause parallel to where clause. Is that correct? I maybe asking a silly question but I am confused and really need to clear my confusion.

When "that" and "where" both can be used to refer to a location as GMATNinja also pointed above, then why they cannot be parallel??

daagh mikemcgarry

Thanks.
-Varun


Not an expert, but let me share my thought process.

One of the most common incorrect constructions used by GMAT is the following:

One of X (where X is a plural noun) that singular verb [Kindly note that this is an incorrect construct]
The above construct is incorrect because the relative pronoun 'that' directly refers to the plural noun (which is X in this case) hence begs a plural verb.
Based on this one logic you can strike out options A,B and C in one go because all 3 options use the singular verb 'Has' to refer to plural noun states.

Hope this helps !!!

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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 14 Nov 2017, 09:44
gkslko101 wrote:
The Official Guide for GMAT Review 10th Edition, 2003

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 225
Page: 688

Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that still has a sizable wolf population, and where this predator remains the archenemy of cattle and sheep.

(A) that still has a sizable wolf population, and where
(B) that still has a sizable wolf population, where
(C) that still has a sizable population of wolves, and where
(D) where the population of wolves is still sizable;
(E) where there is still a sizable population of wolves and where

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Which one is better sizable wolf population or sizable population of wolves.
Please explain the answer?


That cannot be used to modify a place for 1st three options are out. Also, states.. have.. (not has)

semi-colon in D is wrong as they suggest independent meanings..

E

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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 15 Nov 2017, 23:02
gkslko101 wrote:
Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that still has a sizable wolf population, and where this predator remains the archenemy of cattle and sheep.


(A) that still has a sizable wolf population, and where
Here, "sizable" and "wolf" both are adjectives modifying population. Therefore, the construction in its present form is INCORRECT as it appears "sizable" is modifying "wolf" instead of "population", as it is present just before wolf. That is INCORRECT. So, the correct or preferred construction over here would be -- "sizable population of wolves" and not "sizable wolf population".

Also, there is a parallelism issue w.r.t choice E, that is, that....... and where........ The presence of COMMA BEFORE "AND" is incorrect.


(B) that still has a sizable wolf population, where
Similar error as with option A. Also, "where" is modifying "population" due to the change in its position, its modifying the closest noun, which is incorrect. "where" is specifically used to refer to PHYSICAL PLACES/ LOCATIONS. Incorrect.

(C) that still has a sizable population of wolves, and where
parallelism issue -- that..... and where......, option E is better than this choice w.r.t this regard. Just reiterating -- the easiest criterion on which to eliminate choice (c) is the fact that its parallelism is inferior to the parallelism exhibited in choice (e).
Also, the comma before "AND" does not seem logical. INCORRECT.

there should not be a comma in the construction "X and Y" unless "X" and "Y" are independent clauses -- i.e., each is a complete sentence on its own, with "and" serving as a coordinating conjunction.

(D) where the population of wolves is still sizable;
(d) is out because it contains a significant change in meaning. the semicolon in (d) separates its meaning into two unrelated sentences; i.e., the part of (d) that follows the semicolon suggests that the wolf is still the archenemy of the sheep in general. this is almost exactly the opposite of the intended meaning, which is that minnesota is the only state where that's still true!

(E) where there is still a sizable population of wolves and where
CORRECT.

TAKEAWAY FROM THE QUESTION :
if two or more sentences are grammatically correct, then you must pick the one whose meaning adheres most closely to the original meaning.
although the original is grammatically incorrect, its intended meaning is clear:
* minnesota is the only state where there is a sizable wolf population;
AND
* minnesota is the only state where the wolf is still the worst enemy of the sheep.

ALSO ONE MORE THING THAT I NEED TO CLEAR OUT FOR THIS QUESTION WHICH MOST OF THE PEOPLE HAD POSTED IN THE PREVIOUS COMMENTS AS INCORRECT IS ACTUALLY CORRECT :

The constructions in A, B, and C --
The only one of X that/who + singular verb is ACTUALLY CORRECT. We cannot eliminate options A, B and C directly on that basis, because the CONSTRUCTION is correct. I think most of the people are confusing with the FOLLOWING CONSTRUCTION which is INCORRECT as that is NOT tested in the question above and that is,

Only one of X that/who + plural verb -- This is NOT the construction in the question at hand. Notice "THE" missing in the beginning of this construction. Though a subtle difference but worth noting.

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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 27 Nov 2017, 03:59
abhimahna wrote:
Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that still has a sizable wolf population, and where this predator remains the archenemy of cattle and sheep.

A. that still has a sizable wolf population, and where That is referring to States and it must have ‘have’ instead of ‘has’

B. that still has a sizable wolf population, where same as A

C. that still has a sizable population of wolves, and where same as A

D. where the population of wolves is still sizable; It is changing he meaning. As per the original sentence we must convey the meaning that those states have two things. But this sentence conveys only one things and makes the other thing as a part of Independent clause. Hence, incorrect.

E. where there is still a sizable population of wolves and where


Hi Abhimahna,
We can use semicolon to join 2 independent clause and finfd the relationship between them by the use of because (implied)
Example- My grandmother seldom goes to bed this early; she's afraid she'll miss out on something.

Now, in choice D-
Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states ) where the population of wolves is still sizable; this predator remains the archenemy of cattle and sheep.
Cant we say- where the population of wolves is still sizable because this predator remains the archenemy of cattle and sheep. This gives a cause and effect relationship. But again, in the original sentence, we dont have a causal relationship and the intended meaning implies Minnesota is the place where there is X and where there is Y. So, just because of the reliability on the original structure, are we eliminating D

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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st [#permalink]

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New post 27 Nov 2017, 07:32
I have a doubt in this question.

“Where this predator” here, this implies singular. But answer choice c,d,e have wolves. So can we eliminate those choices ???
Please help me.


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Re: Minnesota is the only one of the contiguous forty-eight states that st   [#permalink] 27 Nov 2017, 07:32

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