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Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now

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Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now than a year ago and are going down, even though floods in the Midwest and drought in the south are hurting crops and therefore raised corn and soybean prices.

(A) than a year ago and are going down, even though floods in the Midwest and drought in the south are hurting crops and therefore raised
(B) than those of a year ago, and are going down, even though floods in the Midwest and drought in the south are hurting crops and therefore raising
(C) than a year ago and are going down, despite floods in the Midwest and drought in the south, and are hurting crops and therefore raising
(D) as those of a year ago and are going down, even though floods in the Midwest and drought in the south hurt crops and therefore raise
(E) as they were a year ago and are going down, despite floods in the Midwest and drought in the south, and are hurting crops and therefore raising

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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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I understand what you ask

this the old question, this year and last year are adverb, and they are comparision elements . they shoud be present in both part of comparision and should be paralel.

similarly, prices and those are comparison elemements and they should be present in both parts of comparision and should be paralel.

two questions are similar in that
both comparison elements are present in both parts and paralel.
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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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First thing: Please look into transcription; corn and soybean prices should not be underlined.


For those who want to go into the complicated process finding the nuances in meaning created by ellipsis, they can do that; but before that one should ensure that one can eliminate as many choices as possible on grammar alone. IMO, this problem can be easily solved without bothering about the differences in meaning of comparison. We can forthwith dispense with D and E for using the ‘as’ comparator instead of the ‘than’ comparator. Among A, B and C:

A: than a year ago and are going down, even though floods I the Midwest and drought in the south are hurting crops and therefore raised --- are hurting and raised are blatant shift of tense. So gone.
B: than those of a year ago, and are going down, even though floods in the Midwest and drought in the south are hurting crops and therefore raising ---Grammatically good
C: than a year ago and are going down, despite floods in the Midwest and drought in the south, and are hurting crops and therefore raising—This is a fragment; the conjunction ‘and’ creates confusion as to what are hurting crops and raising. They seem to point to the subject the sentence prices at producer level;

As a foot-note, I wish to add a small comment by no less than Ron on this
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... 32362.html

Quote:
RonPurewal wrote: both versions are fine.
I looked at the problem, and—just as I suspected—the choices with '...than a year ago' can be eliminated for other, quite straightforward, reasons.

Don’t forget—the OG answer keys are usually incomplete, and often incorrect.
The official PROBLEMS are essentially flawless, but the official answer keys are not. (GMAC's all-stars, the people who write the problems, do not write the answer keys; GMAC 'outsources' that work to people of lesser talent, presumably to cut costs.)

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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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New post 15 Oct 2015, 01:53
Hi daagh,

Can you please explain more on how did you eliminate option E for using "as"?

IMO: As needs a clause after it and in this case we have "as they were a year ago".

Kindly help.


daagh wrote:
First thing: Please look into transcription; corn and soybean prices should not be underlined.


For those who want to go into the complicated process finding the nuances in meaning created by ellipsis, they can do that; but before that one should ensure that one can eliminate as many choices as possible on grammar alone. IMO, this problem can be easily solved without bothering about the differences in meaning of comparison. We can forthwith dispense with D and E for using the ‘as’ comparator instead of the ‘than’ comparator. Among A, B and C:

A: than a year ago and are going down, even though floods I the Midwest and drought in the south are hurting crops and therefore raised --- are hurting and raised are blatant shift of tense. So gone.
B: than those of a year ago, and are going down, even though floods in the Midwest and drought in the south are hurting crops and therefore raising ---Grammatically good
C: than a year ago and are going down, despite floods in the Midwest and drought in the south, and are hurting crops and therefore raising—This is a fragment; the conjunction ‘and’ creates confusion as to what are hurting crops and raising. They seem to point to the subject the sentence prices at producer level;

As a foot-note, I wish to add a small comment by no less than Ron on this
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... 32362.html

Quote:
RonPurewal wrote: both versions are fine.
I looked at the problem, and—just as I suspected—the choices with '...than a year ago' can be eliminated for other, quite straightforward, reasons.

Don’t forget—the OG answer keys are usually incomplete, and often incorrect.
The official PROBLEMS are essentially flawless, but the official answer keys are not. (GMAC's all-stars, the people who write the problems, do not write the answer keys; GMAC 'outsources' that work to people of lesser talent, presumably to cut costs.)

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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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My reason for eliminating E is that, ‘higher’ a comparative degree of comparison, requires ‘than’ rather than “as”.

1.3 percent ‘higher now than’ is good. 1.3 percent ‘higher now as’ is incorrect. This is a rule of grammar.

‘As’ can act as a role player, as a preposition and as a conjunction. You require a clause only when it is used as a conjunction. In the other cases, it is followed by nouns. In this stimulus ‘as’ is used a preposition.
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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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The OP has a typo in choice B which currently makes that choice an incorrect answer. "and are going down" doesn't have a comma preceding it in the official text.

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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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New post 03 Jan 2016, 12:49
It would be nice if you could edit the question and delete the part of the text in which you write the answer. :)


Arlene0504 wrote:
Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now than a year ago and are going down, even though floods I the Midwest and drought in the south are hurting crops and therefore raised corn and soybean prices.

A: than a year ago and are going down, even though floods I the Midwest and drought in the south are hurting crops and therefore raised
B: than those of a year ago, and are going down, even though floods in the Midwest and drought in the south are hurting crops and therefore raising
C: than a year ago and are going down, despite floods in the Midwest and drought in the south, and are hurting crops and therefore raising
D: as those of a year ago and are going down, even though floods in the Midwest and drought in the south hurt crops and therefore raise
E: as they were a year ago and are going down, despite floods in the Midwest and drought in the south, and are hurting crops and therefore raising

the correct anwser is B, because prices can't be compared to a time period(a year ago).

But then i came cross this question(OG16 SC104):
Heating-oil prices are expected to be higher this year than last.
this original sentence is correct, as it compares this year to last(year) and it's logically parallel.

I get rather confused about those two sentences, because i think they are quite the same." Price are higher now than a year ago." and " Price will rise higher this year than last." aren't they? so why can't we just compare NOW to A YEAR AGO just like what we do in the" Heating-oil prices are expected to be higher this year than last.". Is there any reason that i can't use the same comparison structure here?

really need some pointers!thanks

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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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Quote:
Heating-oil prices are expected to be higher this year than last.
Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now than a year ago


Both sentences are not the same grammatically.

In the first, you compare this year, a noun, with another year, namely last year, another year.
However, in the second case you are comparing now, an adverb with a year ago, a noun.
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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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New post 27 Sep 2016, 00:10
Hi instructors,

comparison is another problem confused me a lot

please help to check whether I am correct:
1/
sales are higher this year than last year -- Correct,
the same as
sales are higher this year than (that of) last year. the comparison is this year's sales and last year's sales.

2/
price is higher this year than last year -- Correct.
the same as
price is higher this year than (that of) last year. the comparison is this year's price and last year's price

3/
price is higher now than a year ago -- Correct
the same as
price is higher now than (that of) a year ago . the comparison is this now - price and a year ago - price

4/
price is 1.3 percentage higher now than a year ago -- Correct

thus, IMO, the comparisons in A and C are correct.

please check.

thanks a lot
have a nice day
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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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zoezhuyan, I agree with my colleague Ron Purewal (cited above) that the comparisons in A and C aren't necessarily faulty. There are other reasons to eliminate those choices. However, I want to make a slight correction to your analysis above. Your use of "that of" or "those of" in parentheses makes it appear that the implied comparison is between two nouns. Actually, your choices should read ("they were") or ("it was"). The comparison is actually between two adverbial modifiers. Prices are different now than they were last year. This is important because I can't say something like this:

American crows are larger today than in ancient China.

If we filled in "those," this might make sense: "American crows are larger today than those (crows) in ancient China." However, the actual implied meaning here is a comparison between two modifiers: "today" and "in ancient China." "American crows are larger today than (they were) in ancient China." This would make it seem that American crows existed in ancient China!
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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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New post 28 Sep 2016, 22:37
DmitryFarber wrote:
zoezhuyan, I agree with my colleague Ron Purewal (cited above) that the comparisons in A and C aren't necessarily faulty. There are other reasons to eliminate those choices. However, I want to make a slight correction to your analysis above. Your use of "that of" or "those of" in parentheses makes it appear that the implied comparison is between two nouns. Actually, your choices should read ("they were") or ("it was"). The comparison is actually between two adverbial modifiers. Prices are different now than they were last year. This is important because I can't say something like this:

American crows are larger today than in ancient China.

If we filled in "those," this might make sense: "American crows are larger today than those (crows) in ancient China." However, the actual implied meaning here is a comparison between two modifiers: "today" and "in ancient China." "American crows are larger today than (they were) in ancient China." This would make it seem that American crows existed in ancient China!


thanks DmitryFarber
I got it.
I narrowed comparison to "that of" and "those of".

when I approached this question, I thought of both comparisons in A & C as ok, while OA says they are illogical...
I reread MANHATTAN, then posted ...

thanks again DmitryFarber
have a nice day
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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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New post 01 Nov 2016, 03:16
hi experts,
here is a question,
please check the end of the sentence,corn and soybean prices.

I am curious, why no "corn's and soybean's prices" ?

waiting for your help

thanks a lot

have a nice day
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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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New post 01 Nov 2016, 20:32
zoezhuyan wrote:
hi experts,
here is a question,
please check the end of the sentence,corn and soybean prices.

I am curious, why no "corn's and soybean's prices" ?

waiting for your help

thanks a lot

have a nice day
>_~


This usage is alright. It is not a practice to use possessive when referring to price in general, not specifically to that of a particular item.

The oil price has dropped drastically in recent past.... correct. (oil in general)
That doll's price is 10€. ..... correct. (a specific doll)

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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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New post 01 Nov 2016, 21:57
Can we safely say that the phrase: "higher now than a year ago" in options A and C are not grammatically incorrect?

I saw one of the post wherein it was mentioned that phrase is incorrect. I eliminated both the options based on other grounds.

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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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New post 02 Nov 2016, 01:22
sayantanc2k wrote:
zoezhuyan wrote:
hi experts,
here is a question,
please check the end of the sentence,corn and soybean prices.

I am curious, why no "corn's and soybean's prices" ?

waiting for your help

thanks a lot

have a nice day
>_~


This usage is alright. It is not a practice to use possessive when referring to price in general, not specifically to that of a particular item.

The oil price has dropped drastically in recent past.... correct. (oil in general)
That doll's price is 10€. ..... correct. (a specific doll)


Aha !
I see

thanks sayantan2c

have a nice day
>_~

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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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New post 02 Nov 2016, 19:21
DmitryFarber wrote:
zoezhuyan, I agree with my colleague Ron Purewal (cited above) that the comparisons in A and C aren't necessarily faulty. There are other reasons to eliminate those choices. However, I want to make a slight correction to your analysis above. Your use of "that of" or "those of" in parentheses makes it appear that the implied comparison is between two nouns. Actually, your choices should read ("they were") or ("it was"). The comparison is actually between two adverbial modifiers. Prices are different now than they were last year. This is important because I can't say something like this:

American crows are larger today than in ancient China.

If we filled in "those," this might make sense: "American crows are larger today than those (crows) in ancient China." However, the actual implied meaning here is a comparison between two modifiers: "today" and "in ancient China." "American crows are larger today than (they were) in ancient China." This would make it seem that American crows existed in ancient China!



Going by your logic, OA doesn't make sense, does it?

The choice should have been "than they were ..." . Am I correct?

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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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New post 03 Nov 2016, 10:21
warriorguy wrote:
Can we safely say that the phrase: "higher now than a year ago" in options A and C are not grammatically incorrect?

I saw one of the post wherein it was mentioned that phrase is incorrect. I eliminated both the options based on other grounds.


Omission is acceptable if:
1. The omitted part is repeated ( i.e. it occurs at least once in the sentence).
2. It does not obscure the meaning.

Here is an example from OG, in which omission was allowed:

in-no-other-historical-sighting-did-halleys-comet-cause-such-24215.html#p157102

If omission is acceptable for such... as.... comparison, it must be logically acceptable for superlative+than comparison as well.

Now coming to this specific example, the complete sentence before omission is:

Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now than they were a year ago.

The verb were does not occur anywhere else in the sentence, hence it must be repeated - in this case omission is NOT allowed.
( In the comet example the omitted verb did cause occurs in the sentence - hence omission is allowed.)

Another alternative is to compare the prices (nouns) - the correct choice does noun comparison rather than clause comparison (please see my post below). (For clause comparison, "they were" would be required.)

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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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manhasnoname wrote:
DmitryFarber wrote:
zoezhuyan, I agree with my colleague Ron Purewal (cited above) that the comparisons in A and C aren't necessarily faulty. There are other reasons to eliminate those choices. However, I want to make a slight correction to your analysis above. Your use of "that of" or "those of" in parentheses makes it appear that the implied comparison is between two nouns. Actually, your choices should read ("they were") or ("it was"). The comparison is actually between two adverbial modifiers. Prices are different now than they were last year. This is important because I can't say something like this:

American crows are larger today than in ancient China.

If we filled in "those," this might make sense: "American crows are larger today than those (crows) in ancient China." However, the actual implied meaning here is a comparison between two modifiers: "today" and "in ancient China." "American crows are larger today than (they were) in ancient China." This would make it seem that American crows existed in ancient China!



Going by your logic, OA doesn't make sense, does it?

The choice should have been "than they were ..." . Am I correct?


The OA compares nouns ( prices now and prices of an year ago.) If the comparison were between clauses , then "they were" would be required. Clause comparison allows omission of repeated parts in some cases, but not in this example. Please see my post above.

Noun comparison: Prices now is higher than prices then.
Clause comparison: Prices are now higher than they were an year ago. (omission not allowed; "were" does not occur elsewhere in the sentence.)
Clause comparison: Prices were higher an year ago than prices were a couple of years ago (omission allowed, since "prices were" already occurs in the sentence.)

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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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New post 03 Nov 2016, 15:21
sayantanc2k wrote:
manhasnoname wrote:
DmitryFarber wrote:
zoezhuyan, I agree with my colleague Ron Purewal (cited above) that the comparisons in A and C aren't necessarily faulty. There are other reasons to eliminate those choices. However, I want to make a slight correction to your analysis above. Your use of "that of" or "those of" in parentheses makes it appear that the implied comparison is between two nouns. Actually, your choices should read ("they were") or ("it was"). The comparison is actually between two adverbial modifiers. Prices are different now than they were last year. This is important because I can't say something like this:

American crows are larger today than in ancient China.

If we filled in "those," this might make sense: "American crows are larger today than those (crows) in ancient China." However, the actual implied meaning here is a comparison between two modifiers: "today" and "in ancient China." "American crows are larger today than (they were) in ancient China." This would make it seem that American crows existed in ancient China!



Going by your logic, OA doesn't make sense, does it?

The choice should have been "than they were ..." . Am I correct?


The OA compares nouns ( prices now and prices of an year ago.) If the comparison were between clauses , then "they were" would be required. Clause comparison allows omission of repeated parts in some cases, but not in this example. Please see my post above.

Noun comparison: Prices now is higher than prices then.
Clause comparison: Prices are now higher than they were an year ago. (omission not allowed; "were" does not occur elsewhere in the sentence.)
Clause comparison: Prices were higher an year ago than prices were a couple of years ago (omission allowed, since "prices were" already occurs in the sentence.)


Makes sense.

Clarification question: Prices "are" higher now than they "were" a year ago is incorrect because "are" is different from "were". Did I get it right?
In other words, what I understood for your explanation is that the same exact verb is allowed to be omitted. Am I right?

Another follow-up question - What is the role played by "of" in the OA?

prices now are higher than those a year ago

vs

prices now are higher than those of a year ago


What is the difference?

Thanks!

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Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now [#permalink]

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manhasnoname wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
manhasnoname wrote:
Going by your logic, OA doesn't make sense, does it?

The choice should have been "than they were ..." . Am I correct?


The OA compares nouns ( prices now and prices of an year ago.) If the comparison were between clauses , then "they were" would be required. Clause comparison allows omission of repeated parts in some cases, but not in this example. Please see my post above.

Noun comparison: Prices now is higher than prices then.
Clause comparison: Prices are now higher than they were an year ago. (omission not allowed; "were" does not occur elsewhere in the sentence.)
Clause comparison: Prices were higher an year ago than prices were a couple of years ago (omission allowed, since "prices were" already occurs in the sentence.)


Makes sense.

Clarification question: Prices "are" higher now than they "were" a year ago is incorrect because "are" is different from "were". Did I get it right?
In other words, what I understood for your explanation is that the same exact verb is allowed to be omitted. Am I right?

Another follow-up question - What is the role played by "of" in the OA?

prices now are higher than those a year ago

vs

prices now are higher than those of a year ago


What is the difference?

Thanks!


Prices "are" higher now than they "were" a year ago is CORRECT, but "were" cannot be omitted because "are" is different from "were": Prices "are" higher now than they "were" a year ago is INCORRECT.

I do not see any difference between using and not using "of".

Kudos [?]: 3521 [2], given: 22

Re: Prices at the producer level are only 1.3 percent higher now   [#permalink] 05 Nov 2016, 06:39

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