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Profile Evaluation please

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ethen
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Profile Evaluation please [#permalink] New post   06 Jun 2010, 10:24
Hi I actually just discovered this forum but I thought I'd take advantage of its resources and have some questions answered.

Male 24 years old.
Naturalized Asian American
Bachelor in Economics from Villanova University.
Along with East Asian Studies Concentration as well as Chinese Language, Communication and Writing & Rhetoric Minors
GPA 2.7 ( I know, don't laugh :oops: )
GMAT Score - TBD (I took it cold and got 560 but hoping/aiming for 700 or above after intense summer preparation)


Work Experience
--------------
I have been working since I was 14 years old but with internship experience with 3 different companies/institutions.
1. Market Internship with a local magazine agency
2. Business Operations Internship with a large international pharmaceuticals company
3. Public Relations Internship with a top 3 school district in the tri-state area.
4. Worked with the NJ State Police and FBI when I was a sophomore.
5. Worked for the PA Dept of Agriculture when I was a sophomore.
6. Currently doing charity/non-profit work along with random stuff to keep my boat float and trying to use it to boost my admissions chances.


Extracurriculars
-------------
1. Sigma Nu fraternity philanthropy officer/LEAD program
2. Big Brothers & Big Sisters
3. Habitat for Humanity
4. Was awarded the Pennsylvania participation award when I was in HS by congresswoman Lita Indzel Cohen for participation and contribution to charitable causes.
5. Participated in the OΔΕ International Economics Honor Society Conference.


Life story (Maybe the admissions staff can understand tough life can affect GPA?)
-------------
1. Was from a single parent family in poverty (I was on financial aid throughout high school and college)
2. I worked to get my family extra income since I was legal to work at 14. Worked 2-3 jobs every summer and worked full time even when I was enrolled full time at school.
3. Did not speak English when I immigrated when I was 13 and struggled with English throughout high school. (Did ok on SATs with 1310/1600 with 660 math and 650 verbal)


Why I want an MBA
----------------
I am not interested in career changing MBA programs such as Executive MBAs, I am more interested in life changing MBA programs such as the top tier ones like NYU, HBS, if they can give me an opportunity.
I really appreciate Villanova for giving me the opportunity for undergrad as their financial aid program as well as the commuter scholarship program helped me a lot to keep the cost down to basically the bare minimum.

I wouldnt mind swinging for broke for Early Decision or Early Action either

------------
I am interested in what I need to aim for on the GMAT to I guess persuade the admissions staff that my GPA does not properly represent me as an intelligent individual and as a scholar.

Also interested on if my profile can compete with the "blue chip" students who were well fed and well garnished all their lives. I suspect if they apply, they'd most likely bring high GPA, high GMAT scores along with Goldman Sachs/Morgan Stanley internships/entry level jobs. I can understand why they'd choose the ideal "blue chip" candidate over me, but that doesnt stop me from trying to persuade them. If you were an admissions officer would you root for an upset?

Inputs on how I can spin my admissions essay to show my strengths and explain my GPA culprit would be awesome as well... Well, any kind of input or advice would be great :-D

Thank you in advance
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jordanhendrix
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Re: Profile Evaluation please [#permalink] New post   07 Jun 2010, 07:08
Hey,

I'm very much in the same boat as you regarding numbers and I wish you the best of luck. To be completely honest no admissions consultant is going to say you have a chance at HBs. NYU is also a stretch. Having said that anything is possible. Your very young how about building an alternative transcript? I took 4 business classes and got As. While that doesn't help your undergrad gpa it shows the admissions committee that you can handle the course load now. Because of your age your gpa is going to be weighed more, I'm 27 so It won't matter as much as yours. Look into an alternative transcript. Just google that phrase.

Having said all that I know people who have gotten into great schools with well below average gpas, there are many on is board. There is indeed one factor the have in common, a very high GMAT. 720 min.
Even if you get a 710 your still below HBS' average. Don't kill you self trying to get to hbs. If you work hard over the next year, take some classes and kill the GMAT you will have a chance and some great schools. Your story is good but there are people with worse storys who have great numbers. Be realistic but ambitious you have work now to figure it out. I believe any schools is within reach if you shape your self as a great candidate, thing is that may not happen in a year or even two or three. Avg age for business school is 28 with 5 years work experience.
Good luck
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ethen
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Re: Profile Evaluation please [#permalink] New post   07 Jun 2010, 07:38
Thanks for your reply but, as you probably have read that there are fresh out friendly mba programs so with those programs work experience is less of a factor.
I have a different application and goal than you have as we have different levels of work experience. Also, you could benefit from career changing mba programs while those programs wouldn't do me any good.
Another thing is the GPA situation was really not the standard college GPA slump caused by pounding beers everything until the break of dawn. Its caused by the economics situation. Either work full time while going to school or have no money and not going to school. So, its not a case of user error.
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jordanhendrix
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Profile Evaluation please [#permalink] New post   07 Jun 2010, 08:42
regardless of the excuse there are people who are challenged more and have better numbers. All the top schools require WE. I'm not trying to be negative just realistic. If your goals are HBS its gonna be tough. If its a program that doesnt focus much on WE and is on the lower side of the rankings then you can be competitive. Be honest with yourself, You can be one of the lucky ones and I hope you are, but dont get mad b/c someone tells what you dont want to hear when you ask for it.

PS everyone has a sob story for a low GPA, no one says i was pounding beers in an optional essay. economic disadvantage is a viable excuse to some degree but dont just blame a low GPA on that. Man up and take the blame. I know tons of people who work 40 hrs + and have great GPAs

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but you competition is very very stiff right now. But again for other schools with much lower rankings than HBS or NYU you may have a shot.

Dont expect a so called "expert" to tell you otherwise. Either way look into an alternative transcript, it helps a lot of people with low GPAs,


Again best of luck!
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ethen
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Re: Profile Evaluation please [#permalink] New post   Updated on: 07 Jun 2010, 10:50
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As discussed in many other sites and threads, work experience can come in many ways; not just living off adderall working double shifts 7 days a week in IB or stuck in a cubicle with big faceless corporations like IBM or Halliburton. You can go save the whales or do relief work in Haiti or volunteer at the red cross and build up the application/resume through philanthropy as well. To demonstrate that its not just about the money even though it is important, but it is about making a difference. (That is the way I am trying to swing for, as I already have plenty of philanthropy experience.)

Yes, you can know people who work 40+ hours a week and have great GPAs, I know some too.

But then their major (I basically double majored + triple minored, you try that for kicks alone and tell me how that feels afterward), extracurriculars, (fraternal obligations) and community involvement (volunteering, habitat for humanity) would suffer. There is only enough time in the day/week/month/year you can allocate.
If I chose to go purely academic with a lot less extracurriculars/community involvement and only majored in 1 easy subject like communication or english or philosophy, I could have ended up with magna cum laude.
So, I agree with you. I should take responsibilities for me overloading my own schedule.
Playing monday morning quarterback, I should have taken the beaten path of majoring in 1 major and get the 3.8-4.0 GPA.

I certainly hope admissions staff at tier 1 schools aren't like HR idiots at certain companies where they don't even read the resumes but only match certain keywords against the job criteria. So if there is an human factor in the application review process and I can have an opportunity to prove my value at an interview...

Again, I'm not saying what you are saying is wrong, but I am just giving the "Guilty with Explanation" plea.

Originally posted by ethen on 07 Jun 2010, 09:58.
Last edited by ethen on 07 Jun 2010, 10:50, edited 1 time in total.
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jordanhendrix
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Re: Profile Evaluation please [#permalink] New post   07 Jun 2010, 10:26
I too hope you're right.
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bakfed
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Re: Profile Evaluation please [#permalink] New post   07 Jun 2010, 13:32
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Ethen, I think you can put out a great application, if you word things right.

I really think that you should try to land yourself a full-time job at this very moment. It's not that AdCom is idiotic and stubborn when it comes to WE, it's just that there will be way too many applicants with fulltime WE out there. Having said that, I'm sure there are still folks with no fulltime WE getting into top-tiered b-school, but it's just going to be harder. Your GPA is set; I wouldn't worry too much about it (there's nothing you can do that can change the past). You can certainly spin your application in a way that says you have to work during college, but just like omar said, the working-fulltime portion can only be spun so far (an alternative transcript will be favored upon, especially you're still young). On the application for many schools, there's usually an optional essay for you to describe certain situations in your life, including but not limitied to a low GPA. You should definitely use this optional essay to describe why your GPA is on the lower end of the spectrum.

At any rate, in order for admission consultants to answer your questions, you would have to explain what you want to do post-MBA? What schools are you aiming for? Or what GMAT score you have? Chances are, your GMAT score will need to be over 700+ to be competitive at top schools in the nation. Again, I'm not saying that there won't be people who get in with lower than 700 and a 2.7 GPA, but it's just a huge hurdle to get over initially.
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D
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Re: Profile Evaluation please [#permalink] New post   07 Jun 2010, 17:11
Expert Reply
ethen wrote:
Hi I actually just discovered this forum but I thought I'd take advantage of its resources and have some questions answered.

Male 24 years old.
Naturalized Asian American
Bachelor in Economics from Villanova University.
Along with East Asian Studies Concentration as well as Chinese Language, Communication and Writing & Rhetoric Minors
GPA 2.7 ( I know, don't laugh :oops: )
GMAT Score - TBD (I took it cold and got 560 but hoping/aiming for 700 or above after intense summer preparation)


Work Experience
--------------
I have been working since I was 14 years old but with internship experience with 3 different companies/institutions.
1. Market Internship with a local magazine agency
2. Business Operations Internship with a large international pharmaceuticals company
3. Public Relations Internship with a top 3 school district in the tri-state area.
4. Worked with the NJ State Police and FBI when I was a sophomore.
5. Worked for the PA Dept of Agriculture when I was a sophomore.
6. Currently doing charity/non-profit work along with random stuff to keep my boat float and trying to use it to boost my admissions chances.


Extracurriculars
-------------
1. Sigma Nu fraternity philanthropy officer/LEAD program
2. Big Brothers & Big Sisters
3. Habitat for Humanity
4. Was awarded the Pennsylvania participation award when I was in HS by congresswoman Lita Indzel Cohen for participation and contribution to charitable causes.
5. Participated in the OΔΕ International Economics Honor Society Conference.


Life story (Maybe the admissions staff can understand tough life can affect GPA?)
-------------
1. Was from a single parent family in poverty (I was on financial aid throughout high school and college)
2. I worked to get my family extra income since I was legal to work at 14. Worked 2-3 jobs every summer and worked full time even when I was enrolled full time at school.
3. Did not speak English when I immigrated when I was 13 and struggled with English throughout high school. (Did ok on SATs with 1310/1600 with 660 math and 650 verbal)


Why I want an MBA
----------------
I am not interested in career changing MBA programs such as Executive MBAs, I am more interested in life changing MBA programs such as the top tier ones like NYU, HBS, if they can give me an opportunity.
I really appreciate Villanova for giving me the opportunity for undergrad as their financial aid program as well as the commuter scholarship program helped me a lot to keep the cost down to basically the bare minimum.

I wouldnt mind swinging for broke for Early Decision or Early Action either

------------
I am interested in what I need to aim for on the GMAT to I guess persuade the admissions staff that my GPA does not properly represent me as an intelligent individual and as a scholar.

Also interested on if my profile can compete with the "blue chip" students who were well fed and well garnished all their lives. I suspect if they apply, they'd most likely bring high GPA, high GMAT scores along with Goldman Sachs/Morgan Stanley internships/entry level jobs. I can understand why they'd choose the ideal "blue chip" candidate over me, but that doesnt stop me from trying to persuade them. If you were an admissions officer would you root for an upset?

Inputs on how I can spin my admissions essay to show my strengths and explain my GPA culprit would be awesome as well... Well, any kind of input or advice would be great :-D

Thank you in advance


Before I respond, I have a few questions:

1) What are you currently doing? What impact have you had in your professional and non-professional efforts?
2) Why did you choose to maintain such a demanding academic load given that you were working full time?
3) Adcoms certainly will take into account your financial circumstances, but what evidence can you give them that you are academically capable of performing and excelling in a demanding academic environment and that your financial circumstances will now allow a full-time commitment to the MBA? A higher GMAT will help, but it doesn't show that you have the self-discipline to apply yourself when there are lots of interesting and worthy activities to participate in.
4) What do you want to do with your MBA?

You might be interested in "MBA Admissions: Low Stats."

Best,
Linda
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rhyme
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Re: Profile Evaluation please [#permalink] New post   19 Aug 2010, 09:27
My general take is that your profile is "so so" at the moment. I say "at the moment" because I think that you just haven't given your background enough thought -- I suspect you DO have very interesting things to say, but right now, I don't see anything that really stands out as interesting or unique. I'm particularly concerned by what appears to be a lack of focus in what you want to do -- e.g: "6. Currently doing charity/non-profit work along with random stuff to keep my boat float and trying to use it to boost my admissions chances.". This is exacerbated by the fact that you don't appear to have a clear and passionate post MBA goal. A random slew of internships in a broad range of industries don't paint a clear picture nor does it demonstrate continued leadership etc.

To be honest, I think your odds at HBS are non-existent -- none of the extracurricular things you mention are especially impressive or noteworthy. Good? Yes. Incredible? No. With an "OK" internship background, a "handful" of "so-so" extracurricular activities, weak GPA and (assuming you can swing it) an average GMAT, I don't see how you stand a chance. You would need to have SOMETHING truly extraordinary in your story -- it would need be an awful lot deeper and more meaningful than "participated" in some conference. Not trying to be harsh, just honest.

That said, I do think you could push yourself into a top program, but you will need to REALLY focus on the marketing aspect of your current experiences. You need to find the cohesive element that will tell a story that makes an MBA an obvious "must" in your career at this point and how your experiences have led you to this point. Right now, it all just sounds a bit random. I understand the challenge -- i had it myself -- but with effort and time you can craft the "right" story.

As to the GPA, I wouldn't hang my hat on "I had lots to do" -- a lot of people have lots to do -- and frankly, an MBA has twice as much piled on as any undergrad program, especially in the first year. Rather, I would take a higher road, spin it as a "thirst" for knowledge, and perhaps some naivety in having "bit off more than I could chew" by going through the double major and triple minor. Put it behind you and move on. If you mention the financial challenges, I would bring them up as an exacerbating factor, not as the primary one. As Linda points out, if you do it that way it might raise the question as to why this wont be an issue this time around.

Finally, it sounds like you dont really know why you want an MBA -- other than you think it will open doors for you -- and I get that, but think about whether you are "using up" that card early in your career. Teh great thing about an MBA is the ability to start over - to say "oh crap, I messed up" and 'Reboot' your career. I'm always sad when I see someone who burned that option up one year after undergrad. Think about the value of having that option three of four years from now as compared to now.
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Re: Profile Evaluation please [#permalink]
19 Aug 2010, 09:27

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