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Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA 04 Jun 2010, 12:42
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shaselai
am i too reaching here with my scores?
gpa UG 2.92 Engineering
gpa Grad 3.27 (rounded from 3.267) Comp. Sci
GMAT 720
Decent extracurricular in school (student senate etc.) but out of school job and MS took a big chunk of time...

I am at a place where i just cant "f'n stand it anymore" and i need to get the heck out before i go berserk so i am applying to a lot of schools...
R1:
CBS ED
Guizetta ED
Fuqua ED
Yale
Keenan ED

R2 - as many as i can before R2 deadline...
Johnson
tepper
ross
McDonough
darden
stern
tuck
kellog
booth


The bottom 4 are on my "wishlist" although my goal is still Yale because of the financial incentive (parents work there so some tuition relief). I know Yale and CBS are gonna be far reaches but other schools my gpa is bit on the low scale but my GMAT is on the higher scale so hope it balances out... I didn't get any Fs but I did F up my junior year with trying to go Pre-Med from eng and that failed with Ds :( Also there was a class that was a pain to take and i took it 3 times and got a C on - mostly because it was at 8am all 3 times i took it due to schedule conflicts... Basically i went from Dean's list fresh-soph to the crapper in jun-sen....
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First there are a couple of things, you didn't say how long you've been working and what your work experience.

Second, that is WAY too many schools! Realistically 6 solid apps. On your list you have a pretty good list in that if covers some schools you have a good opp of getting in. Sonibubu has a lower GPA than you and got into kellogg/booth with masters. I was waitlisted at Kellogg my first year and will be going to Ross (with wl at insead and admit at UCLA Pt). So it's definitely possible.

By my perception, johnson, duke, ross. Yale is not known to be low GPA friendly, but since you have support I don't know. (same with stern, Cbs)

But you definitely can get in somewhere. Look at the GPA for me, drsatisfaction, ariel, sonibubu.
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First there are a couple of things, you didn't say how long you've been working and what your work experience.

Second, that is WAY too many schools! Realistically 6 solid apps. On your list you have a pretty good list in that if covers some schools you have a good opp of getting in. Sonibubu has a lower GPA than you and got into kellogg/booth with masters. I was waitlisted at Kellogg my first year and will be going to Ross (with wl at insead and admit at UCLA Pt). So it's definitely possible.

By my perception, johnson, duke, ross. Yale is not known to be low GPA friendly, but since you have support I don't know. (same with stern, Cbs)

But you definitely can get in somewhere. Look at the GPA for me, drsatisfaction, ariel, sonibubu.
Show more

Oh, I have been working for 55 months now and doing Software engineering. Didnt get a chance to get into leadership role due to the size of the sites (they are big companies but the site is very small).
I know the school list is quite long but i REALLY want to get the heck out of here! :( I checked the gpa range and yale is tough but the economics (i think i get free tuition due to parents working there) i just couldn't pass up IF i get in...
Here is part of my spread sheet with some us news gpa (10-90%) range ..
columbia 3.1-3.83
yale 715 3.13-3.85
north carolina kenan 2.82-3.8
duke fuqua 2.96-3.8

R2
cornell johnson 2.8-3.8
georgetown mcdonough 2.96-3.87
Michigan Ross 2.9-3.8
virginia darden 2.99-3.8
carnegie mellon tepper 2.88-3.92

booth 3.14-3.88
kellog 3.12-3.89
dartmouth tuck 3.15-3.87
nyu stern 3.06-3.81

Basically i am in the lower range for all of them but my GMAT hopefully can make it look better.If it werent for Columbia and Yale I wouldve loved to apply to kellogs and booth since they are also both reaches - but too many reach apps is gonna hurt me quite a bit... For my list of R2s - it is more or less if i can get to it i will do it so i most likely wont be applying to them all but hopefully a couple from that list like Johnson,ross etc..
Any suggestions on the order of schools i should apply in R2 after the primary 5? maybe put them in "groups" to pick from? i think if i really try hard i might squeeze in 4 from R2....
thanks!
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GoBruins

First there are a couple of things, you didn't say how long you've been working and what your work experience.

Second, that is WAY too many schools! Realistically 6 solid apps. On your list you have a pretty good list in that if covers some schools you have a good opp of getting in. Sonibubu has a lower GPA than you and got into kellogg/booth with masters. I was waitlisted at Kellogg my first year and will be going to Ross (with wl at insead and admit at UCLA Pt). So it's definitely possible.

By my perception, johnson, duke, ross. Yale is not known to be low GPA friendly, but since you have support I don't know. (same with stern, Cbs)

But you definitely can get in somewhere. Look at the GPA for me, drsatisfaction, ariel, sonibubu.

Oh, I have been working for 55 months now and doing Software engineering. Didnt get a chance to get into leadership role due to the size of the sites (they are big companies but the site is very small).
I know the school list is quite long but i REALLY want to get the heck out of here! :( I checked the gpa range and yale is tough but the economics (i think i get free tuition due to parents working there) i just couldn't pass up IF i get in...
Here is part of my spread sheet with some us news gpa (10-90%) range ..
columbia 3.1-3.83
yale 715 3.13-3.85
north carolina kenan 2.82-3.8
duke fuqua 2.96-3.8

R2
cornell johnson 2.8-3.8
georgetown mcdonough 2.96-3.87
Michigan Ross 2.9-3.8
virginia darden 2.99-3.8
carnegie mellon tepper 2.88-3.92

booth 3.14-3.88
kellog 3.12-3.89
dartmouth tuck 3.15-3.87
nyu stern 3.06-3.81

Basically i am in the lower range for all of them but my GMAT hopefully can make it look better.If it werent for Columbia and Yale I wouldve loved to apply to kellogs and booth since they are also both reaches - but too many reach apps is gonna hurt me quite a bit... For my list of R2s - it is more or less if i can get to it i will do it so i most likely wont be applying to them all but hopefully a couple from that list like Johnson,ross etc..
Any suggestions on the order of schools i should apply in R2 after the primary 5? maybe put them in "groups" to pick from? i think if i really try hard i might squeeze in 4 from R2....
thanks!
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This is gonna be my 2cents, I would not apply to columbia and apply to either kellogg or booth. The reason I say that is, having applied ED to CBS it might be more difficult since there application does not stress EC's very much. Also since Kellogg you will get at least an interview. Chicago is also a little more generious on grades in my opinion if you can show depth and intellence.

CBS tends to be more stereotypical in admissions.


Pretty much if I was you (I was you, but didn't have the I must leave this year)

I would suggest
R1
Yale
Kellogg (or Booth)
Duke (or Ross)
CMU (or GT)

R2
Ross (or Duke)
darden
UNC
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Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA Updated on: 15 Sep 2015, 19:53
Originally posted by hideyoshi on 04 Jun 2010, 14:15.
Last edited by hideyoshi on 15 Sep 2015, 19:53, edited 1 time in total.
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GoBruins

This is gonna be my 2cents, I would not apply to columbia and apply to either kellogg or booth. The reason I say that is, having applied ED to CBS it might be more difficult since there application does not stress EC's very much. Also since Kellogg you will get at least an interview. Chicago is also a little more generious on grades in my opinion if you can show depth and intellence.

CBS tends to be more stereotypical in admissions.


Pretty much if I was you (I was you, but didn't have the I must leave this year)

I would suggest
R1
Yale
Kellogg (or Booth)
Duke (or Ross)
CMU (or GT)

R2
Ross (or Duke)
darden
UNC
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What does applying ED to a school mean? I am really ignorant of the lingo here on forum. Thanks
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hideyoshi



What does applying ED to a school mean? I am really ignorant of the lingo here on forum. Thanks
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ED means Early Decision, EA is early action.

for CBS they have a ED and regular application period, which is similiar to most people's R1, R2 except if you apply ED and get accepted you have to go. You need to sign that you will pay 5K upon acceptance and are required to withdrawl all applications. This is why someone people think CBS has an image problem, aka yield whores. Since you have 100% yield for half your class.

Certain schools have ED/EA which have different requirements.

However, my comment with CBS was that looking at the spreadsheets online and the forum post, ED doesn't really help low GPA, low GMAT applicants all that much as opposed to regular applicants.
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GoBruins

This is gonna be my 2cents, I would not apply to columbia and apply to either kellogg or booth. The reason I say that is, having applied ED to CBS it might be more difficult since there application does not stress EC's very much. Also since Kellogg you will get at least an interview. Chicago is also a little more generious on grades in my opinion if you can show depth and intellence.

CBS tends to be more stereotypical in admissions.


Pretty much if I was you (I was you, but didn't have the I must leave this year)

I would suggest
R1
Yale
Kellogg (or Booth)
Duke (or Ross)
CMU (or GT)

R2
Ross (or Duke)
darden
UNC
Show more

I see... i think i am in a bit deep with CBS now since i am done with app except the 2nd essay... What school is GT? Is it georgia tech? i think i want to get the EDs in first so i have a "safety net" so maybe:

R1
CBS
Yale
Kellogg
Duke ED
UNC ED

R2
Ross
darden
CMU


also, does it matter if I apply to kellog or booth R1 or R2? Just seems a bit rough with Yale and kellog/booth up there R1...

Since i want to get into a school and Emory seems easier than UNC.. should I go ED emory intead of UNC or i should be *safe* without emory?
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GT is georgetown. I am just going off your list.
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@wharton there are tons of people with below 670 on their GMATs... albit its mostly white caucasian females..with some other wow factor...

have hope people...GMAT and GPA are important but wont keep you from achieving your goals of getting an admit..just make sure you reflect your accomplishments in the best light and always remember that you are in a horse race..there are several ways to cross the finish line..work hard and achieve big!
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GoBruins...huge congrats on Ross...man you made! come down to Philly and we'll celebrate.. I am so happy for you! Shows that leadership is earned the hard way!
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for those that got into top schools with low gpa/gmat scores, did you get any scholarships or it is all loans? Just curious since scholarships are merit/app based right?
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shaselai
for those that got into top schools with low gpa/gmat scores, did you get any scholarships or it is all loans? Just curious since scholarships are merit/app based right?
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I only received scholarship money from the non-MBA portion of the joint degree programs to which I applied. Hopefully some other applicants received scholarships with their low GPAs.
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wow... i wish i can get into any of those 3 you got in :)
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GoBruin

Personally if I have the time and you think you have a good shot at these schools I would go

H/S (Pick one)
W/M/Tuck (pick one - Although I believe MIT is not a reapp friendly school, but more friendly than most in that tier)
Kellogg/Booth/Columbia (pick one)
Ross/duke/cornell/yale/UCLA (pick two)
Darden/UNC/McComb (pick two)

That would still be 7 schools which is close to the upper bound of applications.
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Thank you for the feedback. This entire process can be very overwhelming. I'm not sure if I have a good shot at these schools but won't know unless I give it a try. Let me know if you think that it's a waste of time to apply to H/S given my profile. They're obviously reaches given my gmat score. I would hope to get into one of the schools from the other tiers, though.

My understanding, however, is that Darden and McCombs are both in the top 16 per the newest US News rankings. Perhaps I'm incorrect, though. I like your idea of applying to a couple of "middle ground" schools. Thanks again.
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does top 16 or whatever matter a whole lot? i dont see too much of a gap in 16-20
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Thank you for the feedback. This entire process can be very overwhelming. I'm not sure if I have a good shot at these schools but won't know unless I give it a try. Let me know if you think that it's a waste of time to apply to H/S given my profile. They're obviously reaches given my gmat score. I would hope to get into one of the schools from the other tiers, though.

My understanding, however, is that Darden and McCombs are both in the top 16 per the newest US News rankings. Perhaps I'm incorrect, though. I like your idea of applying to a couple of "middle ground" schools. Thanks again.
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This whole thread is about people who have defied the odds with sub-par GPA or GMAT. Nothing is certain based solely on stats. The only thing I can guarentee is that I'm 100% sure you won't get into H/S if you don't apply. So I think you should give it a shot, with that said I would not invest my future solely on H/S.

With regard to the middle ground schools, I gave you a list. typically it's the Lower or non-M7's that are ranked 9-15.

There is a general perception of the top 16 schools which are concidered elite, Cornell and Darden are on it, however McComb is not. I don't know the reasoning.
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Congrats, Via! You're a hero.
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Via
Hey Guys/Gals,

I have a low undergrad GPA (2.99) and a low GMAT (650/44Q/35V/5.5AWA).

All in all, I applied to 8 schools (Kellogg, Tuck, Yale, Darden, McDonough, Kelley, Owen, Olin) and I was accepted to all of them. I also received significant scholarships (half tuition or full tuition) from 4 of them (Yale, Darden, Owen, McDonough).

My success, I believe, was a product of my research efforts and application strategy. Using my research on the GMAT Club and several other sources, I realized that I had several attributes that were appealing to admissions committees and I worked hard to highlight every one of them.

My approach:

Two and a half years ago, I realized that I wanted to attend graduate school. Specifically, I wanted to attend a competitive b-school program but I realized that my undergrad GPA was low. Therefore, I took graduate level classes within an MA in leadership and management program. I only took four classes within a year and a half period but I received a 3.75 GPA. I was able to highlight this GPA on my application to counter my undergrad GPA. Although I only took four classes, I argued that I earned good grades despite working full time as a general manager, dealing with several life changing events, and volunteering/etc...

About a year ago this month, I started researching b-schools in depth. I was addicted to the GMAT CLUB, BW Forums, the GMAC website to see GMAT statistics, books ("How to get into top B-school", and 15 b-school websites. I also attended MBA Fairs and discovered groups like The Consortium. Basically, I was a research-a-holic last year.

Using me research, I decided to apply to the 8 schools I listed above. Given my low GPA and GMAT, I didn't know where I'd lie on the competitive ladder among b-school applicants. Therefore, I decided to apply to 1 top-5 school, 1 top-10, 2 top-15, and a couple of other programs that lied in the 15-35 range according to US News and BW rankings.

I then developed a very specific essay strategy that highlighted any and every attribute that I thought gave me a competitive advantage. My goal was to show that I was a success story, that I could succeed in any rigorous academic program, and that I would contribute to any b-school as a student and alum.

In my opinion, my positive attributes include: I'm a first generation hispanic/ I'm the first member of my family to pursue a graduate degree/ I'm in the Army and have deployed twice/ While I was at my undergrad institution- I was heavily involved in my student government as an elected officer/ I served as a tutor, Div 1 athlete, and as an elected and appointed club leader throughout my time in college / I continue to serve as a Class Officer for my undergrad alumni organization/ I earned a 3.75 GPA in graduate level courses despite losing two family members and working full time as a general manager. As a general manager, I received formal ratings that eventually placed me in the top 2% of my peer group. There were a couple of other small data points I added to my essays but you get the point.

When I was writing my essays, I tried to answer the unique questions of each b-school while inserting these attributes to develop a unique story of enduring success. After endless revisions to my b-school essays, I submitted all of my applications by Round 2 for each school. I applied to 5 schools through the Consortium and 3 schools independently.

Some other things that I believe helped me:

I visited every school to which I applied and I highlighted that fact during my interviews. I searched for "key" terms each admissions committee was likely looking for. In my opinion, some of these include: Olin: Research driven thinking/Kelley: family, community, involvement / Kellogg: collaboration, Look at their 4 pillars ie. Intellectual Depth, Diversity of thought.../ Tuck: loyalty, community, friendship, advantage of a b-school education in a rural setting (ie. less distractions, community, focus, etc.)/ Darden: Case Method, working on a team to solve cases, interactive classroom environment.

Every school has a unique community and academic experience that they want to sustain. Figure out what that is and show how you could contribute to it.

Many of you have pointed out that, unless you are an underrepresented minority, female, or have unique work experience, you may not be able to overcome a low GPA or GMAT. Overall, that may be true. However, there are no absolutes in this world. I think everyone has positive attributes that can make them look very competitive despite poor stats. I could have easily applied to less prestigious schools and have saved a lot of time & money in dropping my Kellogg, Tuck, Darden, and Yale applications. Also, had I failed to highlight my strengths to the admissions committee, I could have experienced multiple rejections that some applicants with very high GPAs and GMATs have experienced. In the end, it never hurts to fight for your candidacy and apply to the b-school programs you love.

Furthermore, I believe that, even as a minority, I still overcame major weaknesses in my application. I am certain that over 80% of the minority applicant pool at Kellogg had better stats than I did. It is rare to have both a low GPA AND low GMAT and get into a top 5 program.

Now that my application journey is over, I hope that this post will help some of you. I feel indebted to all of you who have contributed to GMAT Club and have educated me for the last couple of years.

Good luck on your applications!

-Via
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Very impressive stuff. When you got an 100% record, there was clearly something about your case that was equally compelling to every ad-com in the Top 5-25 range. I don't think this goes down to luck; you were able to convey something about yourself, your story, your journey, that made a lot of stuff.

Well done man.
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projectdsquared
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Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA 23 Jun 2010, 07:58
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GMAT: 630
University attended: Wisconsin
Major(s): Business
GPA: 3.7
Nationality: American
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Work Experience: No. of Years / Industry / Role; 4 / Management Consulting
Extra-curricular Activities: Limited
Community Services: Limited

Business Schools (Admitted): Ross
Business Schools (Applied but Dinged): Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, MIT, Kellogg, Booth

What do you think is your biggest advantage? Good essays
e.g. Diversity, Leadership, Good Essays..
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shaselai
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Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA 23 Jun 2010, 08:41
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a side question, is a lower GPA more killer than a lower GMAT when the percentiles are equal? It is probably one of those "up to adcom" questions?
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GoBruin
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Profiles - Admitted to Top B-Schools w/ Low GMAT or Low GPA 23 Jun 2010, 08:47
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shaselai
a side question, is a lower GPA more killer than a lower GMAT when the percentiles are equal? It is probably one of those "up to adcom" questions?
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If the percentiles are equal, definitely low GMAT. If you have 50 percentile GPA that's like a 3.0-3.2? 50 percentile GMAT = 550.
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