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# Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
Gmatprep550 "Dated to be" is not correct. I think people were pointing out that we say "estimated to be" and "dated at." I don't see any support for "dated to be," and I'm quite confident that this would not fly on the GMAT.
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
DmitryFarber wrote:
Gmatprep550 "Dated to be" is not correct. I think people were pointing out that we say "estimated to be" and "dated at." I don't see any support for "dated to be," and I'm quite confident that this would not fly on the GMAT.

Thanks DmitryFarber for clarification I might have misread that part, Just wanted to confirm one more thing is usage of "estimated at" is correct in the GMAT?
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
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No. We use "dated at" and "estimated to be."
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
egmat wrote:
Mission2012 wrote:
Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6-mile-wide asteroid that eradicated the dinosaurs has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth.

The modifier in bold red it modifying - remains of asteroid or asteroid. Also is this modified "adjective phase". If so should it have a comma before it or not?

Hi,

Note that the highlighted portion doesn’t entirely consist of a single modifier.

I suggest you analyze the sentence structure to understand the role played by each element.

Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the size of the 6-mile-wide asteroid
o that eradicated the dinosaurs
has been dated to be 3.47 billion years old and
thus is evidence of the earliest known asteroid impact on Earth.

The highlighted modifier presents a comparison with another “asteroid”.

So it would be logical to presume that the entire modifier is modifying “asteroid”, not “remains”.

Since this modifier is used to modify a noun, we can call it a “Noun Modifier”.

Observe that the modifier is in the non-underlined portion of the official sentence and so it should be correct as such.

Of course, enclosing it in a comma pair won’t make it incorrect. However, it would be unnecessary.

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Krishna

Need your help, i was reading your pdf regarding "that" usage and this question appeared in that PDF ,and in that PDF you said rock samples is the subject because "taken from" can't be verb as it is modifier because it doesn't have is/was/has/had in front of that, but after "that" which represent asteroid eradicated is verb even though it doesn't have was/is/has/had preceding that please explain?
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
rishabhmishra wrote:
after "that" which represent asteroid eradicated is verb even though it doesn't have was/is/has/had preceding that please explain?

Hi Rishabh, it's the other way round. If was/is/has precedes a verb form, then it's a participle (modifier).

In this case, since eradicated is not preceded by was/is/has, eradicated is a verb.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses difference between Verb and Participle, its application and examples in significant detail. If you or someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
EducationAisle wrote:
rishabhmishra wrote:
after "that" which represent asteroid eradicated is verb even though it doesn't have was/is/has/had preceding that please explain?

Hi Rishabh, it's the other way round. If was/is/has precedes a verb form, then it's a participle (modifier).

In this case, since eradicated is not preceded by was/is/has, eradicated is a verb.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses difference between Verb and Participle, its application and examples in significant detail. If you or someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.

thank you for quick reply, but i took egamt course and i found that verb ed if preceded by is/was/had then we can call it as verb but if it doesn't have these is/was/had before ed verb then it is modifier. So i found this question and i asked egmat people this question
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
rishabhmishra wrote:
thank you for quick reply, but i took egamt course and i found that verb ed if preceded by is/was/had then we can call it as verb but if it doesn't have these is/was/had before ed verb then it is modifier. So i found this question and i asked egmat people this question

There seems to be an interpretation issue Rishabh. Let's take this example:

Peter is done with his job.

done is clearly a past participle (and not a verb); did is the simple past tense verb of the verb do.
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
EducationAisle wrote:
rishabhmishra wrote:
thank you for quick reply, but i took egamt course and i found that verb ed if preceded by is/was/had then we can call it as verb but if it doesn't have these is/was/had before ed verb then it is modifier. So i found this question and i asked egmat people this question

There seems to be an interpretation issue Rishabh. Let's take this example:

Peter is done with his job.

done is clearly a past participle (and not a verb); did is the simple past tense verb of the verb do.

sir lets talk about the question as an example if rock samples were taken/ have taken/ had taken then it will work as verb isn't it this is given by egamt and i agree but because there is no were/have/had they told me its a modifier? If possible i will attach a screenshot of that
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
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EducationAisle wrote:
rishabhmishra wrote:
thank you for quick reply, but i took egamt course and i found that verb ed if preceded by is/was/had then we can call it as verb but if it doesn't have these is/was/had before ed verb then it is modifier. So i found this question and i asked egmat people this question

There seems to be an interpretation issue Rishabh. Let's take this example:

Peter is done with his job.

done is clearly a past participle (and not a verb); did is the simple past tense verb of the verb do.

Sir please read attached picture and you will release what i mean.
Attachments

Screenshot (126).png [ 662.06 KiB | Viewed 6386 times ]

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
Rishabh, taken is a past participle (took is the simple past tense verb of the verb take).

Thanks for the screenshot. It's best if you directly get in touch with them for clarity on this point.
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
rishabhmishra Here's what the explanation should have said:

"Taken" is a past participle. If it were preceded by "have," then we would have a present perfect construction: "Rock samples have taken something." Since it follows the noun directly, it is serving as a noun modifier that clarifies which rock samples we're talking about.

I think that was their basic intent. Clearly, not all verbs must be preceded by other verbs. The issue is just how to tell which way we ought to interpret the past participle here.
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
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DmitryFarber wrote:
No. We use "dated at" and "estimated to be."

Dear DmitryFarber

Is 'estimated at' idiomatic too? if yes, how can I use it different than 'estimate to be'?

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The "no" above was in reference to exactly that. I don't think we'll see "estimated at" in a correct answer. However, English is tricky--it depends on the intended meaning. We certainly can't say "estimated at X years old." The idiom is "estimated to be." But what about something else? I could imagine a sentence that said "The damage was estimated at \$45 million dollars." This makes more sense than "to be," since a rock sample can BE millions of years old, but damages can't BE millions of dollars. Rather, millions of dollars in damages occurred.

Having said all that, I don't have an official SC question to validate that usage for the GMAT. If anyone can find a correct official answer with ANY use of "estimated at," I'd be interested to see it.
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
Hello experts!

I have picked this error-detection question from a renowned SAT prep website :-

Halley's comet is a potato-shaped lump (A) about ten miles long (B) with a mass (C) estimated at 10 billion tons,(D) most of which is water ice.(E)No error.

The answer to this question is E.It means that 'estimated at' properly used.I have read almost all posts but am still not convinced with the nuance of usage of these two idioms(Estimated at and Estimated to be).

souvik101990 Can you please help me out and give a conclusion on this?
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
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angsha wrote:
Halley's comet is a potato-shaped lump (A) about ten miles long (B) with a mass (C) estimated at 10 billion tons,(D) most of which is water ice.(E)No error.

The answer to this question is E.It means that 'estimated at' properly used.I have read almost all posts but am still not convinced with the nuance of usage of these two idioms(Estimated at and Estimated to be).

This is interesting. I am reasonably sure that estimated to be is actually better.

An official sentence:

Paleontologists believe that fragments of a primate jawbone unearthed in Burma and estimated to be 40 to 44 million years old provide evidence of a crucial step along the evolutionary path that led to human beings.
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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
GMATNinja -- Can you provide insight here? Usually you mention idioms should not be a deciding factor but all the posts so far are only pointing to idioms. What are your thoughts please?
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I know I’m not gmat ninja (he will respond) but I can maybe help you a little with what I saw?

In a sense it’s idiomatic usage, but if you think about the meaning, sometimes it makes sense.

If I say something is dated to be X, such as:

“You are dated to be 100 years old.”

then I first think about the meaning of the statement.

When someone says that you are dated to be an age, there is this sense of “action” on the part of whoever did the “dating”. The meaning implied is that someone performed the action of dating so that you are 100 years old. The unknown actor made sure that you were “dated to be.”

Obviously, when you think about it that way the phrase comes across as nonsensical.

A and B can be eliminated using subject-verb agreement (“rock samples” is a plural subject)

D, to me, seemed like the “runner up” (although that is clearly version C).

Again, I can think about the meaning of saying something “dated as being 100 years old.”

There are a few instances in which “being” can be used properly.

(1)a gerund - “Being a vampire for Halloween is no fun.”

(2)past or present continuous verb structure - “He is being annoying.” “They were being very rude to me.”

(3)although it’s an offshoot of (1) or (2), the structure I’ve seen a few times in sentences is the following: “before being”

“Jonathon worked at a firm before being fired by the partners.”

To say something is “dated as being” is what the guide would call “wordy” or an “unidiomatic construction,” or perhaps even “redundant”

“as being” conveys a meaning of almost being a part of something. It’s one of those meanings that’s hard to pin down (for me).

Just using “as” is enough to get you to the right meaning. Writing “as being” just comes across as unnecessary.

I can’t think of any time in which “as being” is used appropriately. That’s something I’m sure gmat ninja can correct.

Reading definitely helps you get there to understand the meanings. Otherwise, memorizing a list of thousands of idiomatic usages might be the only other way.

I always try to use the phrase in a simpler sentence to try and pin down the meaning, especially when I see the type of split that appeared in this sentence.

I hope something helps?

testtakerstrategy wrote:
GMATNinja -- Can you provide insight here? Usually you mention idioms should not be a deciding factor but all the posts so far are only pointing to idioms. What are your thoughts please?

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Re: Rock samples taken from the remains of an asteroid about twice the [#permalink]
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