Shortening my list

As my list evolves, I plan to update it here. Here is what I am currently thinking:

If I do Columbia ED:

R1:
Columbia ED
HBS
Chicago GSB
UCLA

R2:
Yale
Wharton

If I elect not to do Columbia ED:

R1:
HBS
Wharton
Chicago GSB
UCLA

R2:
Columbia RD
Yale

After some introspection, I have decided that I want to attend a finance-heavy school to round out my background. I want to enter PE/VC, and I simply lack a lot of the quant/finance skills that would help me break in and succeed. My current work experience has developed my soft skills significantly and although everyone can always use more help in that category, I think my weaknesses in finance are significantly greater.

I have elected to remove Haas and Kellogg from my list due to the above reasons, as well as due to my perception that my age will make it difficult for me to get in (I will have 3 years work experience at matriculation, and be 25 years old). For the same reasons, I am also passing on Tuck and Duke.

There will probably be 5-8 more revisions of this list before it's actually finalized

can't go wrong with that list terp, even though I'm sad you won't be applying to Haas (which would help with VC, though PE would be tougher). But unlike Kellogg, Haas definitely has a more "Hard core" reputation like Columbia and Chicago since it has higher requirements for math skills and probably gets some of its reputation from the engineering school.

If you need someone to talk to about PE, I know a 1st year who's trying to start his own PE fund this summer at Haas...

Terp, my list looks a lot like yours and is evolving too. Most notably I've dropped Kellogg and Haas from my list as well. Those are great schools, but I just don't think the programs are for me.

Rd 1:

HBS
Stanford
Wharton
Columbia (ED?)
Chicago

Rd2:
UCLA (maybe)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Fuqua and Tuck both have better finance reps than Yale? I thought Yale is pretty much a non-profit school.

USnews Specialty Rankings...finance, management, marketing, and non-profit I think actually have some value...They also show that the top schools overall also dominate the rankings in the three major areas MBA grads go into Marketing, Management, and Finance.

Management:
1) HBS
2) Stanford
3) Kellogg
4) Ross
4) Wharton
6) Tuck
7) Darden
8) Duke
9) Haas
10) Columbia

Finance:
1) Wharton
2) Chicago GSB
3) NYU
4) Columbia
5) Stanford
6) MIT
7) UCLA
8) HBS
9) Haas
10) Kellogg

Marketing:
1) Kellogg
2) Wharton
3) Duke
4) HBS
5) Stanford
6) Columbia
7) Ross
8) Haas
9) McCombs (U-Texas)
10) Chicago

Non-Profit:
1) Yale
2) Stanford
3) Kellogg
3) Haas
5) Ross

I do think rounding out profiles is a good idea, I am a proponent of that idea when choosing between several schools...it makes a good tie break. I think any top 10 school will give you great opportunities. I personally think turbo classes at a "soft" school which definitely be more difficult than the normal classes at a quant powerhouse like GSB/Wharton. So when you show your transcripts having turbo fin from pretty much any school will look better than the basic level class at any other school.

In my opinion, Yale beats Duke in Finance. Yale placed over 40% of its recent class into Financial Services, and over 20% into Investment Banking. Duke places approximately 10-20% of its class into Financial Services period. I know that Duke has a larger class, and this may equalize things a bit, but overall I think Yale's brand is better on Wall Street.

As far as Tuck, that is certainly debatable. Tuck places well on to Wall Street, but I chose Yale over Tuck for 3 reasons on my list currently: a) Yale seems more favorable for younger applicants, b) Yale is in closer proximity to a major city, and c) Yale is a backup school of sorts for me. With all of that said, I understand that all 3 of these points are somewhat weak, and I still may consider applying to Tuck.

This is a very nice, focused list.

river, the specialty list is really suspect...

The fact that Haas is ranked that behind Yale and Kellogg in non-profit (they have some leading research and professors doing non-profit) yet ranked in the top 10 for finance (over Kellogg) is strange to me. The entrepreneurship is beyond fixing when Haas is ranked below many many schools that it shouldn't be.

Just my 2 cents.

Yale is pretty much universally considered the #1 non-profit and Kellogg also has a great rep there with a major pretty much tailor made for it...so I dont think that is too off. You do realize that Haas and Kellogg are tied on there for it right? Plus they dont give you the spread, so they could all be within a slight fraction of each other. I mean GSB and Wharton could be very far above other schools in Finance but you just see the numbers.

The entrepreneurship on is completely screwy though, thats why I didnt post it.

I know I'm all over the map right now, but I'm considering adding Kellogg back, and dropping Wharton. This is primarily due to fit, as well as the "big fish in a small pond" theory.

I would guess that proximity plays a fairly large role in the difference in Wall St placements.

Agreed. But additionally Yale has hired a number of prominent Finance professors over the past several years and has earned a reputation as being a rigorous finance school. It seems to me that a number of Duke students that go into investment banking select the 2nd tier banks and regional locations in the South/Mid Atlantic (i.e. Wachovia in Charlotte, Jefferies in DC, etc.), whereas Yale has a greater proportion of bulge bracket placements on Wall Street. There's nothing wrong with either path - but they're just for different people.

Don't do it--at least not for that reason (big fish, not fit.) I am opposed to this theory. Remember that you are competing against all MBAs, not just MBAs within your school. Maybe for the initial closed interview list you're only competing against your classmates, but in the ultimate hiring decision/process you should be evaluated against all the possible candidates for the job. This will be especially true for the unstructured hiring practices of the buy-side. I've said this before and I think it rings true here, "embrace, but don't underestimate, the competition."

Dont ignore the fit aspect of things. I know I didnt apply to Wharton or HBS because I had no interest in either school. I am originally from Mass and HBS brings so many preconceived images that I didnt want to apply. Yes its a great school but its like someone from Ohio wanting to go to Ross...it just is hard to overcome 22 years of brainwashing no matter how unjustified. I dont think I would have enjoyed Wharton much judging by my interaction with some students and alums...plus Philly wasnt high on the list of places to live for a few years to say the least.

The big fish/small pond thing is a tough debate. I think that in certain areas there is no relevance but in others it actually can be helpful. I have heard time and time again that Kellogg is an ideal place for career changers who want IB to go. All the big names recruit heavily and there are not many former bankers there...they head to HBS, Wharton, Chicago, Columbia and NYU. Pretty much banks come and want people but there arent many people competing for those positions with experience. So if you have experience you can pretty much walk into a job at the best places, if you have none its a very level playing field where you arent way behind a bunch of folks with stellar experience. I met a second year at DAK II going to Goldman and had no idea about what banking really was until he showed up at school and started recruiting.

As for MC thats competitive at all schools, and generally outside of the top 3 there arent a ton of former M/B/B folks, not in the numbers you will see former bulge bracket bankers at the finance schools. Plus the case interviews in those make you or break you, where as in IB everyone says your dedication to firms is a very big factor. Marketing, and all the management careers its better to go to the schools where the companies you really want recruit...there are some very good companies who only recruit at a very small core (some mid size companies will have 1 or 2 where managers went), they arent like the big MC firms recruiting at 15 schools actively. The top schools obviously give you the most options in these fields but if you want a company in the south then Duke and Darden may make more sense than MIT or another Top 5.

If you are like me and want an industry where few companies actively recruit anywhere you will doing the leg work on your own so going to a place that people know is a great school can be a huge help...not necessarily rank since those arent always the best indicator outside of the MBA world...I mean some ranking people see Columbia as a weakening brand but in the real world its considered an amazing school. It also helps to go by location if you have very set goals, if you know you really want company X and they are headquartered in Chicago then GSB and Kellogg have a huge advantage when hunting down that job on your own. Same goes with West Coast schools.


On another note, not being the pessimist here but one thing that is very important is to be realistic about your chances. Its great to have dreams and go for them but dont apply to all your dream schools if unless you honestly can say you have a solid chance. You are better off having a broader view of schools to apply to that will get you where you want to be. Remember this year was tough, we heard about +20% increases at a lot of top schools...now if that happens again then a lot of top 10 schools will have admission rates that HBS had three or four years ago.

I disagree with your assessment of Duke IB placement. Take a look at their employment report for 2006-2007:

https://www.fuqua.duke.edu/career/recrui ... report.pdf

They placed more of their graduates going into IB at non-Charlotte banks than at those banks. Unfortunately they didn't list industry placement with respect to location, but an equal number of grads ended up in the northeast as in the southeast/mid-Atlantic.

I'm not arguing that Duke should have a better finance reputation than Yale (in fact I believe the opposite is true); however, I just wanted to clarify that Duke places plenty of grads at bulge bracket banks in the northeast.

Regarding Kellogg for finance, see larzke's post (scroll to the bottom):

128-t62139

That's a good point, but I think fit is weighing heavier on my decision. I am leaning towards applying to HBS. If I apply to HBS, I think that'll take care of my "complete stretch and most likely not happening" school. I don't see the need to have 2 of these in my roster, especially when I don't think I'd even enjoy going to the 2nd one. From everything I've heard and read, I think that I'd really enjoy myself at HBS and therefore I plan to apply there even though the chances are slim.