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The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 04 Nov 2016, 11:23
Jabrah

Can you please explain, how (Differed) here is verb and not a Verb-ed modifier.
what is noun entity and how you calculated it to verb

What's wrong with the below sentence.
The growth of the rail roads led to the abolition of local times, differed from city to city. Here differed is modifying time , so does the determined

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 07 Nov 2016, 22:49
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Thanks for your question mbaprep2016

Do you how to distinguish between a verb in the past tense and a past participle?

Here is a quick answer by GMAT guru, Ron:

"Past-tense verbs and participles have meanings that are essentially complete opposites -- the former suggests that the noun actually does the action, while the latter suggests an action done to the noun -- so, if you can't reliably tell them apart, then you must not be thinking much (if at all) about the meaning of the words.

for instance:
robots made (= verb) today's breakfast --> this is something that the robots did.
millions of robots made (= participle) in korea are shipped to the u.s. each year --> this is something done to the robots."

If it's not clear let's continue our discussion :)
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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 08 Nov 2016, 17:08
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mbaprep2016 wrote:
Jabrah

What's wrong with the below sentence.
The growth of the rail roads led to the abolition of local times, differed from city to city. Here differed is modifying time , so does the determined


Hey mbaprep2016

It's illogical to use the past tense "differed". Present participle "differing" is better because it represents the eternal state of something, or a definition in general. For instance, you wouldn't say, two dogs alive at this very moment differed from one another. You'd say, they differ from one another. The best way to convey something that doesn't end is the present participle -ing when of course the word is modifying another.

I hope this helps.

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 08 Nov 2016, 22:20
mejia401 wrote:
mbaprep2016 wrote:
Jabrah

What's wrong with the below sentence.
The growth of the rail roads led to the abolition of local times, differed from city to city. Here differed is modifying time , so does the determined


Hey mbaprep2016

It's illogical to use the past tense "differed". Present participle "differing" is better because it represents the eternal state of something, or a definition in general. For instance, you wouldn't say, two dogs alive at this very moment differed from one another. You'd say, they differ from one another. The best way to convey something that doesn't end is the present participle -ing when of course the word is modifying another.

I hope this helps.


mejia401
the example you have used doesn't seems right to me. You mentioned differing is modifying another. I think it is modifying two dogs and if so then differing will follow the comma, as er e-gmat.
verb-ing (present participle ) gives you how aspect or present result of previous clause.

Jabrah, I use the same logic to differentialte between verb and verb-ed (past participle). I am sorry , my was not clear.
My concern was to make action verb we need subject and according to e-gmat and even manhattan ... verb-ing modifier either modifies previous clause or result of action and make sense with subject
but verb-ed modifier mostly modifies immediate noun.

The growth of the rail roads led to the abolition of local times, determined by (someone).... hence surely determined is a verb-ed modifier
but in this question ....
The growth of the rail roads led to the abolition of local times, two modifiers in comma separated by and , and another verb to growth...

Now these two modifiers has to make sense with times ... determined does make sense... but differed does not ....
my confusion was if i use differing with comma.... it does not make sense for sure with times ...

but i m sure differed is not a verb here. My question is how you decided is to be a verb and what is the subject you choose to relate

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 01 Dec 2016, 04:29
hari315 wrote:
If the option C had 'and which were differing' would it be right?

Posted from my mobile device

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The parallelism would be maintained, but still the tense would be wrong - progressive tense for the verb "differ" is not correct - "and which differed" would be alright.

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2016, 23:54
The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times,which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times.

(A)which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing
(B)which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and which differed
(C)which were determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing
(D)determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differed
(E)determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing

A very good question to test modifiers.
My take on the question:

Clause 1: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times
Subject: Growth
Verb: led
Clause 2: which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city
Subject: which (refers to times—Plural)
Verb: was (singular) Incorrect
What was confusing here is the use of ‘differing from city to city’
After reading the explanations, it was clear that it referred to the ‘times’.

Can we use ‘which differed from city to city’ in the above context?
If anyone could answer this.

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 06 Dec 2016, 05:50
Shiv2016 wrote:
The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times,which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times.

(A)which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing
(B)which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and which differed
(C)which were determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing
(D)determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differed
(E)determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing

A very good question to test modifiers.
My take on the question:

Clause 1: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times
Subject: Growth
Verb: led
Clause 2: which was determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city
Subject: which (refers to times—Plural)
Verb: was (singular) Incorrect
What was confusing here is the use of ‘differing from city to city’
After reading the explanations, it was clear that it referred to the ‘times’.

Can we use ‘which differed from city to city’ in the above context?
If anyone could answer this.


In correct Option E, two participial phrases are joined by "and":
1. "determined ....": past participle
2. "differing...": present participle
Both these participle modifiers refer to "times".

If the second item were "which differed...", then a parallelism error would arise - past participle would then be parallel with a relative clause - such usage is incorrect.

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 05 Mar 2017, 06:39
Hi souvik101990,

I believe answer should be D and not E.

I could see that OA is not added.

Could you please confirm once?
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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 05 Mar 2017, 06:54
in my opinion, ans is E.

determined is acting as a modifier and so we need differing in second part of the sentence to act as a modifier to retain the parallelism.

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 05 Mar 2017, 06:58
warriorguy wrote:
in my opinion, ans is E.

determined is acting as a modifier and so we need differing in second part of the sentence to act as a modifier to retain the parallelism.


I believe determined and differed are parallel to each other(both modifying the time).

So, answer should be D.
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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 05 Mar 2017, 07:01
abhimahna wrote:
warriorguy wrote:
in my opinion, ans is E.

determined is acting as a modifier and so we need differing in second part of the sentence to act as a modifier to retain the parallelism.


I believe determined and differed are parallel to each other(both modifying the time).

So, answer should be D.



local times was determined by something. It is not a doer of the action. So determined in this case is an -ed modifier.

If you look at the second part, then local times differed from city to city would act as a verb. So we need -ing form to act as a modifier.

Please note that -ed modifier can be || to -ing modifier.

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 05 Mar 2017, 07:06
warriorguy wrote:
local times was determined by something. It is not a doer of the action. So determined in this case is an -ed modifier.

If you look at the second part, then local times differed from city to city would act as a verb. So we need -ing form to act as a modifier.

Please note that -ed modifier can be || to -ing modifier.


I understand that -ed modifier can be || to -ing modifier.

But here, don't you think time differed from X to Y is correct. I am not clear on the explanation given by you.

Can you please cite more examples or elaborate the original sentence a more?
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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 05 Mar 2017, 07:16
abhimahna wrote:
warriorguy wrote:
local times was determined by something. It is not a doer of the action. So determined in this case is an -ed modifier.

If you look at the second part, then local times differed from city to city would act as a verb. So we need -ing form to act as a modifier.

Please note that -ed modifier can be || to -ing modifier.


I understand that -ed modifier can be || to -ing modifier.

But here, don't you think time differed from X to Y is correct. I am not clear on the explanation given by you.

Can you please cite more examples or elaborate the original sentence a more?


Maybe this example can offer some help:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/scientists-h ... -9394.html

Again, OA is not provided and it well could be that I am completely off-base but from what I know (or I think), two parts of the sentences to be parallel should be of the same form e.g. noun phrase or verb etc.

In the first part of the sentence, determined is not acting as a verb but rather as a modifier and hence second part of the sentence should also be a modifier and not a verb.

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 05 Mar 2017, 07:23
warriorguy wrote:
Maybe this example can offer some help:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/scientists-h ... -9394.html

Again, OA is not provided and it well could be that I am completely off-base but from what I know (or I think), two parts of the sentences to be parallel should be of the same form e.g. noun phrase or verb etc.

In the first part of the sentence, determined is not acting as a verb but rather as a modifier and hence second part of the sentence should also be a modifier and not a verb.


I completely agree with your point but as per my understanding differed is not acting as a verb here. Rather it is acting as a verv-ed modifier only. Again, I could also be wrong.

Dear mikemcgarry,

Please provide your inputs here.
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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 05 Mar 2017, 11:35
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The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which was determined by when the sun reached the observer’s meridian and differing from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times.

A. which was determined by when the sun reached the observer’s meridian and differing Wrong
B. which was determined by when the sun reached the observer’s meridian and which differed wrong choicev\
C. which were determined by when the sun reached the observer’s meridian and differing unparalleled.
D. determined by when the sun reached the observer’s meridian and differed . can be the right choice.
E. determined by when the sun reached the observer’s meridian and differing
Unparalleled.

i think Oa may be D.as it ensure the parallel structure.

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 02 Apr 2017, 22:39
Hello,

Can anyone please explain. Why is the usage of "which" incorrect in this sentence? I have this doubt from quite some time now, when to use which while defining a preceding clause and when not to. Can someone please explain the differences.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
K K

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 04 Apr 2017, 02:00
Hi reachskishore,

The usage of "which" is not incorrect; the options A, B and C are incorrect for other reasons:

Option A and B: "which was ....... "
The "which" refers to local times which is plural and therefore the verb must also be plural "were".

Option C: "which were ..... and differing ... "
This option corrects the SV agreement error in option A and B, but introduces another error, the parallelism error. "which were ... " is a clause whereas "differing ..." is a phrase.

Hope this helps.

Regards.

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 04 Apr 2017, 02:22
Dear Experts,

I have 2 concerns regarding option E: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian and differing from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times.

1. The presence of the comma after local times.

The sentence can be broken into 2 as follows:

a. The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, determined by when the sun reached the observer's meridian, and to the establishment of regional times. - This is ok.

b. The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, differing from city to city, and to the establishment of regional times. - The usage of comma + present participle modifies the entire clause as per MGMAT SC. This changes the intended meaning.

I feel the comma must be removed for this sentence to be correct.


2. The usage of present participle.

The sentence begins with "The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times" to state that the local times have been abolished whereas "differing from city to city" implies that the local times are differing in the present. The sentence seems to illogically suggest that the abolished (past) local times are differing from city to city (present).

Experts, please let me know if there are any errors in my reasoning?

Thanking you in advance.

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jun 2017, 05:23
Jat wrote:
Why do we need differing instead of differed as stated in OA : E?

Can an expert throw some light?
Thank you,
Jat


The past participle modifier conveys a sense in passive voice, and the present participle modifier conveys a sense in active voice. Consider the two verb equivalent forms for the participle forms in options D and E:

Option D:
Past participle modifier: differed from city to city
Verb equivalent (passive): The time was differed from city to city.... this construction conveys a wrong meaning - implies that someone differed the time intentionally.

Option E:
Present participle modifier: differing from city to City
Verb equivalent (active): The time differed from city to city.... conveys correct meaning: the time was different in different cities.

In summary, "Time" should be the subject, not object, of the action "differ".

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Re: The growth of the railroads led to the abolition of local times, which [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jun 2017, 08:47
reachskishore wrote:
Hello,

Can anyone please explain. Why is the usage of "which" incorrect in this sentence? I have this doubt from quite some time now, when to use which while defining a preceding clause and when not to. Can someone please explain the differences.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
K K



Hello reachskishore,


I do understand that you posted this query some time back. Nonetheless, I would like to present an answer to your question.


The word which is a noun modifier. It is NOT a clause modifier because technically, which is a type of pronoun that can only refer to nouns and pronouns.

In general, which, or for that matter an noun modifier, modifies the noun entity that immediately precedes it. However, at times, which, or other noun modifiers, can refer to a slightly far away noun if the context of the sentence demands so.

We have a very detailed article that deals with when a noun modifier can modify a slightly far away noun. The article can be reviewed in the following link:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/noun-modifiers-can-modify-slightly-far-away-noun-135868.html


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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