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655-705 Level|   Comparisons|   Idioms/Diction/Redundancy|   Pronouns|   Punctuation|   Subject Verb Agreement|                                 
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shanks2020
Hi GMATNinja AndrewN

While i agree to the explanation above, there is some sense of ambiguity with option A. In option A, it appears that we are comparing numbers with time, since the part after than begins with "When". When typically denotes time.
In general, when do we know that concision is correct and when do we know that concision is causing ambuguity.
Show more
Hello, shanks2020. I could not have written a more thorough and on-point reply than the one GMATGuruNY has supplied above. I particularly enjoy the inclusion of official examples in that post to make a point. To add something to this dialogue, I wrote a post just recently (albeit to a Princeton Review question) in which I suggested, not for the first time, that someone consider the whole sentence before allowing a certain split to be decided on the basis of conciseness. I cannot emphasize that point enough. When paired with seeking to disprove the worst answers first, you can get pretty strong at SC in no time. (Just play the probabilities that a certain answer choice is more incorrect than another.)

Thank you for thinking to ask me.

- Andrew
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shanks2020
Hi GMATNinja AndrewN

While i agree to the explanation above, there is some sense of ambiguity with option A. In option A, it appears that we are comparing numbers with time, since the part after than begins with "When". When typically denotes time.
In general, when do we know that concision is correct and when do we know that concision is causing ambuguity.
Hello, shanks2020. I could not have written a more thorough and on-point reply than the one GMATGuruNY has supplied above. I particularly enjoy the inclusion of official examples in that post to make a point. To add something to this dialogue, I wrote a post just recently (albeit to a Princeton Review question) in which I suggested, not for the first time, that someone consider the whole sentence before allowing a certain split to be decided on the basis of conciseness. I cannot emphasize that point enough. When paired with seeking to disprove the worst answers first, you can get pretty strong at SC in no time. (Just play the probabilities that a certain answer choice is more incorrect than another.)

Thank you for thinking to ask me.

- Andrew
Show more

Hi GMATGuruNY

Really nice explanation!
And do you think option E has any other error, apart from concision when compared with option A and use of "what" as mentioned by GMATNINJA?
I dont think i will ever be able to see "what" in exam the way GMATNINJA has explained...
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shanks2020
Hi GMATGuruNY

Really nice explanation!
And do you think option E has any other error, apart from concision when compared with option A and use of "what" as mentioned by GMATNINJA?
I dont think i will ever be able to see "what" in exam the way GMATNINJA has explained...
Show more

The posted version of this SC does not reflect the official version found in my copies of the Verbal Review.
In the Verbal Review 2nd edition, the 2017 Verbal Review, and the 2018 Verbal Review, option E does NOT include the usage of what.
See the screenshot below:

Unless someone can provide a screenshot of the version posted here by the OP, do not worry about this version.
It seems unlikely that the GMAT would make us choose between options A and E.
Both answers seem viable, especially in light of the following OA in GMATPrep:
In the 1980’s the rate of increase of the minority population of the United States was nearly twice what it was in the 1970’s.
As this OA illustrates, the construction in blue is considered correct.
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shanks2020
Hi GMATGuruNY

Really nice explanation!
And do you think option E has any other error, apart from concision when compared with option A and use of "what" as mentioned by GMATNINJA?
I dont think i will ever be able to see "what" in exam the way GMATNINJA has explained...

The posted version of this SC does not reflect the official version found in my copies of the Verbal Review.
In the Verbal Review 2nd edition, the 2017 Verbal Review, and the 2018 Verbal Review, option E does NOT include the usage of what.
See the screenshot below:

Unless someone can provide a screenshot of the version posted here by the OP, do not worry about this version.
It seems unlikely that the GMAT would make us choose between options A and E.
Both answers seem viable, especially in light of the following OA in GMATPrep:
In the 1980’s the rate of increase of the minority population of the United States was nearly twice what it was in the 1970’s.
As this OA illustrates, the construction in blue is considered correct.
Show more

HiGMATGuruNY

Thanks for posting the correct version.
To confirm, E is incorrect because it appears that gryfalcon has survived extinction now "WITH" numbers greater. It appears as if it is taking the help of "numbers"...Is my reasong correct?
Or any other reason for option E to be incorrect, per your version.
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shanks2020
Hi GMATGuruNY

Really nice explanation!
And do you think option E has any other error, apart from concision when compared with option A and use of "what" as mentioned by GMATNINJA?
I dont think i will ever be able to see "what" in exam the way GMATNINJA has explained...

The posted version of this SC does not reflect the official version found in my copies of the Verbal Review.
In the Verbal Review 2nd edition, the 2017 Verbal Review, and the 2018 Verbal Review, option E does NOT include the usage of what.
See the screenshot below:

Unless someone can provide a screenshot of the version posted here by the OP, do not worry about this version.
It seems unlikely that the GMAT would make us choose between options A and E.
Both answers seem viable, especially in light of the following OA in GMATPrep:
In the 1980’s the rate of increase of the minority population of the United States was nearly twice what it was in the 1970’s.
As this OA illustrates, the construction in blue is considered correct.
Show more
_______________
Edited. Thank you!
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shanks2020
[To confirm, E is incorrect because it appears that gryfalcon has survived extinction now "WITH" numbers greater. It appears as if it is taking the help of "numbers"...Is my reasong correct
Show more

This line of reasoning is valid -- nice work!

Quote:
ny other reason for option E to be incorrect, per your version
Show more

OA: Its numbers are now five times greater than [its numbers were] when the use of DDT was sharply restricted.
Here, the clause in green is an ADVERB serving to modify the implied very in blue.

E: numbers greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted
Here, it is unclear what is being modified by the clause in red.
As a result, E seems to convey that the NOUN IN BLUE is greater than the MODIFIER IN RED -- an illogical comparison.
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shanks2020
[To confirm, E is incorrect because it appears that gryfalcon has survived extinction now "WITH" numbers greater. It appears as if it is taking the help of "numbers"...Is my reasong correct

This line of reasoning is valid -- nice work!

Quote:
ny other reason for option E to be incorrect, per your version

OA: Its numbers are now five times greater than [its numbers were] when the use of DDT was sharply restricted.
Here, the clause in green is an ADVERB serving to modify the implied very in blue.

E: numbers greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted
Here, it is unclear what is being modified by the clause in red.
As a result, E seems to convey that the NOUN IN BLUE is greater than the MODIFIER IN RED -- an illogical comparison.
Show more

Hi GMATGuruNY

In the below official GMAT PREP question:

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

(B) movies—fewer than have been

Here, also after than, there is no clear subject which has been used before.
Like in the question discussed above, "its numbers were" was used before and hence we could imply it after than.
But in this question, it seems that some subject is missing after than.
Can you please explain.
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shanks2020
In the below official GMAT PREP question:

Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—less than those killed by bee stings.

(B) movies—fewer than have been

Here, also after than, there is no clear subject which has been used before.
Like in the question discussed above, "its numbers were" was used before and hence we could imply it after than.
But in this question, it seems that some subject is missing after than.
Can you please explain.
Show more


Generally, when a verb after than lacks an explicit subject, the subject of the preceding clause is implied.
OA: Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—fewer [people] than [people] have been killed by bee stings.
Here, the words in brackets are omitted, but their presence is understood.
The implied subject after than is the noun highlighted in green -- the subject of the preceding main clause.
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Am I missing something here? A, B, and E all compare 'the numbers of the gyrfalcon' to a time as indicated by the presence of the relative modifier 'when'. You can't compare the numbers of the bird with a time...
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Am I missing something here? A, B, and E all compare 'the numbers of the gyrfalcon' to a time as indicated by the presence of the relative modifier 'when'. You can't compare the numbers of the bird with a time...
Show more

Hi CEdward

(A) and (B) do not compare numbers to a point or period of time. Let us read (A) again:

The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's.

The sentence is comparing the numbers at a point in time ("now") to the numbers at another point in time ("when..."). The portion of the clause stating "its numbers" is common to both "now" and "when". It is not correct to consider the numbers only for the "now" portion and not for the "when" portion.

The current version of option (E) does indeed compare numbers to a point in time and is hence incorrect. This was not the case with the earlier version of option (E).

Hope this clarifies.
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the only quibble is "times greater than".
I have presumed that if we represent quantity by multiplication, then "TIMES" binded with "AS" ... "AS" ought to be utilized.
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the only quibble is "times greater than".
I have presumed that if we represent quantity by multiplication, then "TIMES" binded with "AS" ... "AS" ought to be utilized.
Show more
Cardinal rule #1 of Sentence Correction: Do not invent rules! :)

The two constructions are both fine. Say, for example, that Dan has one child and Tim has nine children. We could say that Tim has nine times as many children as Dan has. After all, 9*1 = 9. We could also say that the number of children Tim has is nine times greater than the number of children Dan has. Either form is acceptable.

(Useless, nerdy footnote: some people would argue that "nine times as many as" is the same thing as saying "eight times greater than." This is really not worth worrying about for the purposes of the GMAT, but here's an example of a very long-winded internet conversation around this issue.)

The takeaway: Sometimes you get a choice between two constructions that mean slightly different things but that are both logical enough to hang onto. When that happens, move on to other decision points.

I hope that clears things up!
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Can you help with PRESENT option E? EducationAisle

Here "Now" seems to clearly compare with time period "1975". I don't see run on as well.

Can we invert the Part A of sentence with Part B for understanding run on in following manner?

>> Now with numbers five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's, The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction.
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Mayank221133
Can you help with PRESENT option E? EducationAisle

Here "Now" seems to clearly compare with time period "1975". I don't see run on as well.

Can we invert the Part A of sentence with Part B for understanding run on in following manner?

>> Now with numbers five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's, The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction.
Show more
I don't believe E is a run-on.

Curious to know why you thought that E is a run-on? As you would be aware, a run-on is when we have two Independent clauses, connected by just a comma. However, following is not an Independent clause: now with numbers five times .....in the early 1970's.
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Mayank221133
Can you help with PRESENT option E? EducationAisle

Here "Now" seems to clearly compare with time period "1975". I don't see run on as well.

Can we invert the Part A of sentence with Part B for understanding run on in following manner?

>> Now with numbers five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's, The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction.
I don't believe E is a run-on.

Curious to know why you thought that E is a run-on? As you would be aware, a run-on is when we have two Independent clauses, connected by just a comma. However, following is not an Independent clause: now with numbers five times .....in the early 1970's.
Show more

Hi,

Agree, I got little confused after looking at all options in which Independent clause was tested.Was double checking about run-on, and I wanted to discuss the analogy, invert A><B, that is use when in doubt.
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Mayank221133
Agree, I got little confused after looking at all options in which Independent clause was tested.
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Not sure what you mean by "Independent clause was tested" Mayank. Please let me know, so that I can further elaborate.

As you would be aware. all correct sentences would have at least one Independent clause.
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Mayank221133
Agree, I got little confused after looking at all options in which Independent clause was tested.
Not sure what you mean by "Independent clause was tested" Mayank. Please let me know, so that I can further elaborate.

As you would be aware. all correct sentences would have at least one Independent clause.
Show more

Sure,

I wanted to know:

1) As per the meaning of the sentence, do we need to 2 Independent clauses to convey the intended meaning or can we convey the idea in a single clause by changing it in I,D form.

2) Comparsion or any other issue in this sentence : The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction, now with numbers five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's.
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Mayank221133


1) As per the meaning of the sentence, do we need to 2 Independent clauses to convey the intended meaning or can we convey the idea in a single clause by changing it in I,D form.

2) Comparsion or any other issue in this sentence : The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction, now with numbers five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's.
Show more
"now with fivefold the numbers..." is actually a modifier.

Since "has survived a close brush with extinction" happened in the past and is not really concurrent with "now", a separate Independent clause (as in the original sentence) is a better construct.
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Mayank221133


1) As per the meaning of the sentence, do we need to 2 Independent clauses to convey the intended meaning or can we convey the idea in a single clause by changing it in I,D form.

2) Comparsion or any other issue in this sentence : The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction, now with numbers five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's.
"now with fivefold the numbers..." is actually a modifier.

Since "has survived a close brush with extinction" happened in the past and is not really concurrent with "now", a separate Independent clause (as in the original sentence) is a better construct.
Show more

Ok, Is it Absolute modifier? I am not able to reckon the kind of modifier here.
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Mayank221133
Ok, Is it Absolute modifier? I am not able to reckon the kind of modifier here.
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Hi Mayank, no it's not an Absolute modifier.

Absolute modifiers have the following construct:

Noun + Noun modifier.

That kind of a construct is not present here.

It is just an adverbial modifier.
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