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605-655 (Medium)|   Overlapping Sets|                                       
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Bunuel
If 75 percent of the guests at a certain banquet ordered dessert, what percent of the guests ordered coffee?

(1) 60 percent of the guests who ordered dessert also ordered coffee.
(2) 90 percent of the guests who ordered coffee also ordered dessert.

Answer: Option C

Video solution by GMATinsight

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Hey Bunuel,

What mistake am I making?

A- # of people who order desert
B- # of people who order coffee
AnB - # of people who order both dessert and coffe

Given: A=75
Statement 1: AnB=.6*70=45
Given that we know AuB=A+B-AnB

100=75+B-45 ----> B=75. Hence statement 1 should be sufficient.

What am I doing wrong here!!!?? So confused? Please help. Thank you!


When I solve this problem by using the 2x2 grid, its obvious that there is not enough information. But when I try to just use the formula it gives me suffient info.

Do you know how many ordered neither? We cannot say that AuB = 100.



I made the same mistake. I was cognizant of the neither aspect but I didn't consider it. In some Set problems I've noticed we let go of the neither if it is not mentioned and in some we consider it even if it is not mentioned. Can you please help me fill in the gaps here?

KarishmaB Bunuel mikemcgarry
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KarishmaB
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Hey Bunuel,

What mistake am I making?

A- # of people who order desert
B- # of people who order coffee
AnB - # of people who order both dessert and coffe

Given: A=75
Statement 1: AnB=.6*70=45
Given that we know AuB=A+B-AnB

100=75+B-45 ----> B=75. Hence statement 1 should be sufficient.

What am I doing wrong here!!!?? So confused? Please help. Thank you!


When I solve this problem by using the 2x2 grid, its obvious that there is not enough information. But when I try to just use the formula it gives me suffient info.

Do you know how many ordered neither? We cannot say that AuB = 100.



I made the same mistake. I was cognizant of the neither aspect but I didn't consider it. In some Set problems I've noticed we let go of the neither if it is not mentioned and in some we consider it even if it is not mentioned. Can you please help me fill in the gaps here?

KarishmaB Bunuel mikemcgarry


Dear prakashb2497
the equation is following
Total = A + B - Both (A and B) - Neither
So, "Neither" is mandatory attribute. Yet, you have take it into consideration only when necessary.
In our case we have to find "what percent of the guests ordered coffee?"

% of guests ordered coffee = Both (Coffee and Dessert) + Coffee but not Dessert.
Thus, there is no need to compute Neither.


The following posts can help
https://gmatclub.com/forum/overlapping- ... 05636.html
https://gmatclub.com/forum/advanced-ove ... 44260.html
https://gmatclub.com/forum/formulae-for ... 69014.html
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Bunuel
If 75 percent of the guests at a certain banquet ordered dessert, what percent of the guests ordered coffee?

(1) 60 percent of the guests who ordered dessert also ordered coffee.
(2) 90 percent of the guests who ordered coffee also ordered dessert.

Bunuel
I got the correct answer. But I have a doubt. Do I need to worry about the possibility of other dishes (dessert, coffee, and maybe something else)? Because the question stem doesn't explicitly mention the existence of only 2 dishes.
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Bunuel
If 75 percent of the guests at a certain banquet ordered dessert, what percent of the guests ordered coffee?

(1) 60 percent of the guests who ordered dessert also ordered coffee.
(2) 90 percent of the guests who ordered coffee also ordered dessert.

Bunuel
I got the correct answer. But I have a doubt. Do I need to worry about the possibility of other dishes (dessert, coffee, and maybe something else)? Because the question stem doesn't explicitly mention the existence of only 2 dishes.

Some quests could have ordered something else but how is this relevant ? Say you knew that 25% of the guests ordered salad. So what?
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Bunuel
If 75 percent of the guests at a certain banquet ordered dessert, what percent of the guests ordered coffee?

(1) 60 percent of the guests who ordered dessert also ordered coffee.
(2) 90 percent of the guests who ordered coffee also ordered dessert.­


ID: 700284
Coffee = C, Dessert = D

Take it as a stochastical problem:
Given: P(D) = 0.75, as well as empirical frequencies, which can treated as conditional probabilities:

(1): P(C|D) = 0.6
(2): P(D|C) = 0.9

Now remember Bayes Theorem:

P(C|D) = [P(C) * P(D|C)]/P(D)

Given both, statement (1) and (2), one can easily solve for P(C).

Ans C
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Why are we not considering those who didn't order neither coffee nor desert? It is not mentioned in the question that all have ordered atleast one.
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SportEarth
Why are we not considering those who didn't order neither coffee nor desert? It is not mentioned in the question that all have ordered atleast one.
We do not need to. The question never requires that every guest ordered at least one of the two.

From the statements, we already know that 45 guests ordered both, and that these 45 represent 90% of all coffee drinkers. That is enough to determine the total number who ordered coffee, regardless of how many guests ordered neither.

For more, I suggest you to study the previous two pages of the discussion. This should help/.
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Hi SportEarth,

You are right that nothing in the stem forces every guest to order at least one of the two, so the "neither" group can absolutely exist. The thing worth separating is whether that group exists and whether we need to know its size. Split the guests into two rows and both become visible.

Where the neither group does matter: Statement (1) alone

Take 100 guests. Dessert = 75, so no dessert = 25. Statement (1) gives both = 60% of 75 = 45. That fills in only the first row:

Dessert row, 75 guests:45 ordered coffee, 30 did not.
No-dessert row, 25 guests: unknown. Say k ordered coffee, so 25 minus k ordered neither.

The coffee total is 45 + k, and the neither group is that leftover 25 minus k. Both hang on the same unknown, and nothing so far pins it.

Case A, k = 0: coffee total = 45, so coffee is 45%. Neither = 25.
Case B, k = 15: coffee total = 60, so coffee is 60%. Neither = 10.

Both cases obey Statement (1), yet coffee lands on 45% in one and 60% in the other. Two answers means not sufficient. Your instinct is exactly right: it is the freedom in that second row that sinks Statement (1).

Where it stops mattering: adding Statement (2)

Statement (2) says those 45 "both" guests are 90% of everyone who ordered coffee. Call the coffee total x:

0.9x = 45, therefore x = 50.

That equation uses only the overlap (45) and the ratio (90%). The neither group never appears in it, so its size cannot move the answer. And once the coffee total is fixed at 50, the rest simply follows:

Dessert row, 75 guests:45 ordered coffee, 30 did not.
No-dessert row, 25 guests:5 ordered coffee, 20 ordered neither.

Look at that last figure. 20 guests really did order neither coffee nor dessert. We never set it to zero and never assumed it away. It falls out at the end as the leftover, rather than being something we needed on the way in.

Takeaway: the question asks only for the coffee total. Statements (1) and (2) together pin that down without ever touching the neither group, which is why the answer is C and not E.

Answer: C

SportEarth
Why are we not considering those who didn't order neither coffee nor desert? It is not mentioned in the question that all have ordered atleast one.
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