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19 Dec 2019, 17:27
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Hey all. Admitted R1 to Cornell Johnson with partial scholarship.
How much does being at a Top 15/20 school vs. M7 really matter for consulting recruiting?
Looking to get thoughts on a couple different aspects of this discussion.
Let's assume MBB + Deloitte, Accenture, EY, ATK.
1. Geography
Been perusing the forums and quite a few people seem to be knocking Johnson when comparing to NYU Stern, Fuqua, and Darden but Johnson is sending the same 25% people to consulting as these other schools. The people I've spoken to at Fuqua and Darden seem to indicate its much harder to end up in the Midwest consulting out of these schools whereas Johnson is sending quite a few people to Chicago. How important is seeing students go to the specific firm offices that you want to be at? Whether that's Chicago, Seattle, DC, etc.
2. Recruiting Opportunities and pre-MBA
How noticable is the gap in recruiting opportunities between M7 vs. Top 15 schools? Top 20? Top 25? Where do you see a huge fall off?
If I'll have opportunities to attend Consortium OP and/or Forte Conference pre-MBA, how much does an on-campus recruiting gap matter?
What about making sure your school is on the list for McK pre-MBA? (eg: Kelley (IU), Mendoza (ND), Jones (Rice), etc not even having access to that pipeline)
3. Recruiting Competition
How much does it matter how good you look compared to your classmates? Big fish small pond vs. Small fish big pond OR are there that many more spots at top firms for students from top schools? If everyone is listing their GMAT on their resume -- do you want to be at a school where you're above average or does it not really matter >700?
4. Scholarship
(This is kind of linked back to 2 but...) Where do you think there's a breakeven between ranking and worth? Booth (no money) vs Johnson (full)? Johnson (1/2) vs Ross (no money)? Johnson (3/4) vs Fuqua (1/2)? Sloan (no money) vs. Darden (full)? Fuqua (1/2) vs. Wash U Olin (full)? OR Do people feel like above top 15, go wherever?
Apologies for the very open ended question but I'd like to make sure I'm being comprehensive and current.
How much does being at a Top 15/20 school vs. M7 really matter for consulting recruiting?
Looking to get thoughts on a couple different aspects of this discussion.
Let's assume MBB + Deloitte, Accenture, EY, ATK.
1. Geography
Been perusing the forums and quite a few people seem to be knocking Johnson when comparing to NYU Stern, Fuqua, and Darden but Johnson is sending the same 25% people to consulting as these other schools. The people I've spoken to at Fuqua and Darden seem to indicate its much harder to end up in the Midwest consulting out of these schools whereas Johnson is sending quite a few people to Chicago. How important is seeing students go to the specific firm offices that you want to be at? Whether that's Chicago, Seattle, DC, etc.
2. Recruiting Opportunities and pre-MBA
How noticable is the gap in recruiting opportunities between M7 vs. Top 15 schools? Top 20? Top 25? Where do you see a huge fall off?
If I'll have opportunities to attend Consortium OP and/or Forte Conference pre-MBA, how much does an on-campus recruiting gap matter?
What about making sure your school is on the list for McK pre-MBA? (eg: Kelley (IU), Mendoza (ND), Jones (Rice), etc not even having access to that pipeline)
3. Recruiting Competition
How much does it matter how good you look compared to your classmates? Big fish small pond vs. Small fish big pond OR are there that many more spots at top firms for students from top schools? If everyone is listing their GMAT on their resume -- do you want to be at a school where you're above average or does it not really matter >700?
4. Scholarship
(This is kind of linked back to 2 but...) Where do you think there's a breakeven between ranking and worth? Booth (no money) vs Johnson (full)? Johnson (1/2) vs Ross (no money)? Johnson (3/4) vs Fuqua (1/2)? Sloan (no money) vs. Darden (full)? Fuqua (1/2) vs. Wash U Olin (full)? OR Do people feel like above top 15, go wherever?
Apologies for the very open ended question but I'd like to make sure I'm being comprehensive and current.
ENGRTOMBA2018
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Last visit: 01 Dec 2021
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Concentration: Finance, Strategy
Schools: Kellogg '18 (M)
GMAT 1: 750 Q49 V44
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19 Dec 2019, 22:59
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Very open ended but great questions nonetheless! As it’s very difficult to generalize the answers, I’ll stick to answering my questions for MBB+ Deloitte/Oliver Wyman/LEK only.
I’ll provide my view of having gone to M7, recruited into consulting as experienced hire (5 months post-MBA as I didn’t feel challenged enough in my role right after MBA). Caveat here is that post MBA roles are also dependent on how rigorously do you network.
1. M7 def has a leg up on recruiting here. Yes, by numbers if you analyze, it’s the same number of students every year but if you look closely, M7 sends more students into major consulting hubs (NYC, Chicago, SF, Dallas etc). For other locations, you need to network crazily! You need to understand that it’s not just getting into MBB. It’s also thinking about what’s your plan B of say consulting doesn’t work out for you or if personal reasons dictate that toh leave consulting. M7 will def provide those additional exit opportunities into corporate strategy or management roles that some of the other schools might not be able to provide.
2. Didn’t get your second question but I’ll explain it from the lens of OCR and the importance of having your school listed as a ‘target school’. It’s very difficult to get an internship if your school isn’t a target school or outside of OCR. These companies are very competitive and highly sought after. So not going to target school will only make it difficult (not impossible) to land an internship let alone a FT offer.
3. For consulting, you’ll always have competition at top 15. That’s the very nature of the industry. This shouldn’t be a consideration as MBB already know what top candidates do or look like and hence irrespective of where you go, you must be a top candidate for them to even invite you for interviews. More people around you will help you with casing, IMO.
4. Outside of M7, the gap becomes greater and people tend to choose scholarship over rankings. But for M7, prestige and networking capabilities of being at say, H/S/W will outweigh a full ride at Fuqua etc all else being equal.
I hope these answer your questions. Feel free to ask additional questions.
Posted from my mobile device
I’ll provide my view of having gone to M7, recruited into consulting as experienced hire (5 months post-MBA as I didn’t feel challenged enough in my role right after MBA). Caveat here is that post MBA roles are also dependent on how rigorously do you network.
1. M7 def has a leg up on recruiting here. Yes, by numbers if you analyze, it’s the same number of students every year but if you look closely, M7 sends more students into major consulting hubs (NYC, Chicago, SF, Dallas etc). For other locations, you need to network crazily! You need to understand that it’s not just getting into MBB. It’s also thinking about what’s your plan B of say consulting doesn’t work out for you or if personal reasons dictate that toh leave consulting. M7 will def provide those additional exit opportunities into corporate strategy or management roles that some of the other schools might not be able to provide.
2. Didn’t get your second question but I’ll explain it from the lens of OCR and the importance of having your school listed as a ‘target school’. It’s very difficult to get an internship if your school isn’t a target school or outside of OCR. These companies are very competitive and highly sought after. So not going to target school will only make it difficult (not impossible) to land an internship let alone a FT offer.
3. For consulting, you’ll always have competition at top 15. That’s the very nature of the industry. This shouldn’t be a consideration as MBB already know what top candidates do or look like and hence irrespective of where you go, you must be a top candidate for them to even invite you for interviews. More people around you will help you with casing, IMO.
4. Outside of M7, the gap becomes greater and people tend to choose scholarship over rankings. But for M7, prestige and networking capabilities of being at say, H/S/W will outweigh a full ride at Fuqua etc all else being equal.
I hope these answer your questions. Feel free to ask additional questions.
Posted from my mobile device
19 Dec 2019, 23:23
Kudos
Bookmarks
That is a great summary. Don't have anything particular to add tbh here.
My only value add would be on 2 points already mentioned in the discussion -
1.) "Let's assume MBB + Deloitte, Accenture, EY, ATK" - There is quite a bit of difference b/w MBB and the other firms you mentioned. When you say 25% of Johnson's class is going to consulting, it is to the EY/PwC/Deloitte/Accentures of the world. Very few make it to M/B/B vs. M7 schools. I would also say that Fuqua/Ross/Tuck have a much better conversion rate than Johnson.
2.) "Outside of M7, the gap becomes greater and people tend to choose scholarship over rankings. But for M7, prestige and networking capabilities of being at say, H/S/W will outweigh a full ride at Fuqua etc all else being equal"
Agree with this in theory, but for H/S/W only. Once you move to Kellogg/Sloan etc. the full ride at Fuqua/Tuck/Ross looks more lucrative. Would still pick M7 over Johnson full ride though if you want to pursue MBB consulting.
You can take this point in conjugation with your big fish small pond theory - In reality it is very difficult to judge whether you will stand out amongst your classmates, who will all have solid backgrounds themselves. For consulting recruiting, I would say big pond is a better bet because you have all the resources to network with the firms. Subsequently, you need to crack the case and personal interviews. The bar for selection doesn't change materially across schools, so you place yourself at a disadvantage when you don't go to a core consulting school.
Source: Also work for M/B/B
My only value add would be on 2 points already mentioned in the discussion -
1.) "Let's assume MBB + Deloitte, Accenture, EY, ATK" - There is quite a bit of difference b/w MBB and the other firms you mentioned. When you say 25% of Johnson's class is going to consulting, it is to the EY/PwC/Deloitte/Accentures of the world. Very few make it to M/B/B vs. M7 schools. I would also say that Fuqua/Ross/Tuck have a much better conversion rate than Johnson.
2.) "Outside of M7, the gap becomes greater and people tend to choose scholarship over rankings. But for M7, prestige and networking capabilities of being at say, H/S/W will outweigh a full ride at Fuqua etc all else being equal"
Agree with this in theory, but for H/S/W only. Once you move to Kellogg/Sloan etc. the full ride at Fuqua/Tuck/Ross looks more lucrative. Would still pick M7 over Johnson full ride though if you want to pursue MBB consulting.
You can take this point in conjugation with your big fish small pond theory - In reality it is very difficult to judge whether you will stand out amongst your classmates, who will all have solid backgrounds themselves. For consulting recruiting, I would say big pond is a better bet because you have all the resources to network with the firms. Subsequently, you need to crack the case and personal interviews. The bar for selection doesn't change materially across schools, so you place yourself at a disadvantage when you don't go to a core consulting school.
Source: Also work for M/B/B
ENGRTOMBA2018
