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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink]
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Hi,
I received a PM for this one.

@rajeevrks27: John sat in the minivan carrying seven passengers.
Per the rules of verb-ing modifier, “carrying” is clearly modifying “minivan” there is no comma between the two words. When there is no comma before the verb-ing then it modifies the preceding noun.
So in the above sentence too, “carrying” is referring to “minivans”. It is giving us more information about the minivan that John sat in that minivan that had seven passengers in it.
The sentence that you have provided is also correct. There again, “carrying” is not separated with comma. Hence without any ambiguity or confusion, “carrying” is modifying “minivan”, suggesting that the minivan in which John sat carried load. “carrying” in no way can refer to John if there is no comma between “carrying” and “minibus”.

@maheshrini: For the Stegosaurus, a dinosaur, the seventeen bony plates embedded in its back were necessary elements for survival, regulating its temperature throughout its bus-sized body and protecting it from much larger carnivores.

In this sentence, both the verb-ing modifiers “regulating” and “protecting” are modifying the preceding clause. They are giving information about how “the seventeen bony plates embedded in its back were necessary elements for survival” for the Stegosaurus.
One way to identify what the modifier is modifying is that ask a question. Whatever aspect the modifier is the reply to, that is the aspect it is modifying.
For example, in the above dinosaur sentence, ask how the seventeen bony plates embedded in its back were necessary elements for survival? Both the verb-ing modifiers answer this question. Hence, the modifiers are modifying the preceding clause. They are providing additional information as to how these bony plates were essential for survival for Stegosaurus.
Hope these explanations help.
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink]
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2: Verb-ing modifier ONLY ------> modifies the preceding NOUN or NOUN PHRASE only.
2 also applies to verb-ed modifiers.

Shraddha, I would like to note that for verb-ing and verb-ed modifiers the e-gmat course mentions only nouns but not noun phrases, a pretty significant omission. (see Modifiers_Verb_Ing)
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink]
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Hi @alexcey,
I am glad that you have reviewed one of our most popular concepts - Modifiers - Verb-ing.

And I truly appreciate your observation. You are correct that verb-ed modifier (like other noun modifiers) can modify a noun or a noun phrase. However, in the Modifiers-Verb-ING concept, we explicitly state that verb-ed modifiers modify nouns. This is because in this concept we explicitly show the difference between verb-ed and verb-ing modifiers with regards to showing the difference in terms of modified entity - a noun or a clause. Now definitely if we say that a modifier modifies a noun, then it surely can modify a noun phrase as well. In fact this concept is covered in the concept titled Modifiers - Relative Pronouns. This concept is in Level 2 of Sentence Correction. Likewise, if we say that a modifier can modify a clause, then it surely can modify the action or the verb as well.

Hope this helps. Once again, I appreciate your keen observation!

Thanks,

Payal
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink]
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Hi Shraddha
Thank you for the explanation. This has helped me a lot
I just had one question
So you said that Verb-ed modifiers always modify the preceding Noun or noun phrase, whichever is logical
Now in the sentence

My sister finally quit her job, discouraged by the long hours and low pay.

Logically the Job cannot be discouraged by long hrs and low pay and ther is not Noun phrase. So why cant we assume that "discouraged" is modifying My sister
Is it that it has to modify either the preceding Noun or Noun phrase and sisnce it does not modify either correctly in this case, we consider it wrong?

Please help
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink]
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pratb
So why cant we assume that "discouraged" is modifying My sister
Is it that it has to modify either the preceding Noun or Noun phrase and sisnce it does not modify either correctly in this case, we consider it wrong?

Please help

Hi there,

Thanks for liking the article. I’m glad to know that it has been useful for you. Now let’s get to your question.

My sister finally quit her job, discouraged by the long hours and low pay.

Yes, you are correct in saying that the verb-ed modifier can modify either the immediate preceding noun or the immediate preceding noun phrase. A verb-ed modifier cannot jump over a verb to modify a noun in the subject place. The entity that a verb-ed modifier modifies has to precede it.

Also, if you read this sentence properly, it seems to suggest that “discouraged” is actually modifying the preceding clause. It is giving more information as to why “my sister” quit her job by stating the reason for it. Such modification in GMAT is not acceptable.

Hence the correct sentence is:

Discouraged by the long hours and low pay, my sister finally quit her job.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink]
Great Article. Really helped in clarifying a difficult concept of Verb-ing & Verb-ed.

Kindly continue sharing such articles along with intricacies involved in the concepts.

Kudos to u.
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink]
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Thanks for the praise. We are almost at the end of our cycle on modifiers. Below is one such article that you may find useful.

ed-forms-verbs-or-modifiers-134691.html?fl=similar
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink]
Hi Shraddha
Please explain this OG13 question related to dangling modifiers

65. Digging in sediments in Northern china, evidence has been gathered by scientists suggesting that complex life -forms
emerged much earlier than they had
previously thought

A) Same
B) evidence gathered by scientists suggests a much earlier emergence of complex life-forms that had been
C) scientists have gathered evidence suggesting that complex life forms emerged much earlier than
D) Scientists have gathered evidence that suggests a much earlier emergence of complex life-forms than that which was
E) Scientists have gathered evidence that suggests a much earlier emergence of complex life-forms than that

Also Please let me know if we can use Gerund at the start of a sentence?
I am confused with usage of Present Participle & Gerund.
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink]
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Hi Nipun,

Digging in sediments in Northern china, evidence has been gathered by scientists suggesting that complex life -forms emerged much earlier than they had previously thought.

The sentence means that scientists dug in sediments in Northern China and gathered evidence that suggests that complex life forms emerged much earlier than previously thought.

Error Analysis:
1. Verb-ing modifier “digging” is illogically modifying “evidence”. This modification suggests that “evidence” did the action of “digging”. The subject of the main clause should be “scientists” because they did this action.
2. Again, verb-ing “suggesting iis incorrectly modifying the preceding noun “scientists”, suggesting that “scientists” suggested something. It is the “evidence” that did the action of suggesting.

POE:
A) evidence has been gathered by scientists suggesting that complex life –forms emerged much earlier than they had: Incorrect for the reasons stated above.
B) evidence gathered by scientists suggests a much earlier emergence of complex life-forms that had been: Incorrect.
1. This choice repeats the same modification error of choice A.
2. The phrase “a much earlier emergence of complex life-forms” is not very clear and direct.

C) scientists have gathered evidence suggesting that complex life forms emerged much earlier than: Correct.

D) scientists have gathered evidence that suggests a much earlier emergence of complex life-forms than that which was: Incorrect.
1. The phrase “a much earlier emergence of complex life-forms” is not very clear and direct.
2. “that” stands for “a much earlier emergence of complex life-forms”. This makes the comparison illogical.
3. There is no need of this illogical comparison presented by “that”.

E) Scientists have gathered evidence that suggests a much earlier emergence of complex life-forms than that: Incorrect. This choice repeats the errors of choice D.

The answer to your second question is yes. Gerunds can be used in the beginning of the sentence. Take these sentences for example:
1. Drinking green tea is better than drinking coffee.
2. Swimming is my favorite sport.
3. Growing flowering plants is Harry’s hobby.

Notice that in all the above sentences, gerunds are the subject. But, when we have verb-ing modifiers in the beginning of the sentence, they are followed by a main clause.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
Shraddha

Originally posted by egmat on 20 Aug 2012, 12:40.
Last edited by egmat on 16 May 2014, 14:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Scientists have recently received permission to research embryonic stem cells, derived from blastocysts or early-stage embryos, that they believe to be capable of generating new cell growth and curing previously incurable ailments.

a. that they believe to be capable
b. that they beleive are capable
c. they they believe will be capable
d. believe as capable
e. believed to be capable

I marked D, but the OA is A.
Shraddha, can you please explain
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By the time philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein met Bertrand Russell in 1912, afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity towards emotional instability and having been shaken greatly by the loss of two brothers, the former would be living with depression for almost a decade.

afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity towards emotional instability and having been shaken greatly by the loss of two brothers, the former would be living with depression for almost a decade.

the former would have been living with depression for almost a decade, having been afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity to emotional instability and having been shaken by the loss of two of his brothers

the former had lived with depression for almost a decade, had been afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity to emotional instability and had been greatly shaken with the loss of two of his brothers

the former had lived with depression for almost a decade, afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity towards emotional instability and greatly shaken by the loss of two of his brothers

the former, afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity towards emotional instability, greatly shaken by the loss of two of his brothers, lived with depression for almost a decade



As per the article above, comma + verb+ed should modify the preceding noun/noun phrase. Here, in the correct option, it is not so. Shraddha, can you please help me with it.
Thanks!
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Scientists have recently received permission to research embryonic stem cells, derived from blastocysts or early-stage embryos, that they believe to be capable of generating new cell growth and curing previously incurable ailments.

a. that they believe to be capable
b. that they beleive are capable
c. they they believe will be capable
d. believe as capable
e. believed to be capable

I marked D, but the OA is A.
Shraddha, can you please explain

@catfreak. I know that I am responding a little to this post. And I know you are expecting a straightforward answer such as this is exactly why D is not correct and A is correct. But I will tackle this a little differently. Take a look at this sentence with Choice D:

Scientists have recently received permission to research embryonic stem cells, derived from blastocysts or early-stage embryos, believe as capable of generating new cell growth and curing previously incurable ailments.

Now I want you to analyze the sentence structure of this sentence and tell me the SV pairs of the clauses. With that structure you should be able to answer the following questions:
1: What is verb of "scientists"?
2A: What is the role of "derived from..." - is derived verb or verb-ed modifier?
2B: If it is verb, then identify its subject.
2C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies?
3A: What is the role of "believe as..." - is believe verb or verb-ed modifier?
3B: If it is verb, then identify its subject.
3C: If it is verb-ed modifier, then tell me what it modifies?

I look forward to your response.

Take care,
Payal
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By the time philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein met Bertrand Russell in 1912, afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity towards emotional instability and having been shaken greatly by the loss of two brothers, the former would be living with depression for almost a decade.

afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity towards emotional instability and having been shaken greatly by the loss of two brothers, the former would be living with depression for almost a decade.

the former would have been living with depression for almost a decade, having been afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity to emotional instability and having been shaken by the loss of two of his brothers

the former had lived with depression for almost a decade, had been afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity to emotional instability and had been greatly shaken with the loss of two of his brothers

the former had lived with depression for almost a decade, afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity towards emotional instability and greatly shaken by the loss of two of his brothers

the former, afflicted by what seems to have been an inherited propensity towards emotional instability, greatly shaken by the loss of two of his brothers, lived with depression for almost a decade



As per the article above, comma + verb+ed should modify the preceding noun/noun phrase. Here, in the correct option, it is not so. Shraddha, can you please help me with it.
Thanks!

What is the source of this question? Reason I ask is simple - the correct choice employs the construction in which verb-ed modifier modifies the preceding clause. As we noted in the article above, official questions do not seem to recognize this role of verb-ed modifier. So there is a clear disconnect. So I look forward to your response on the source of this question. If it not an official question, then I suggest you do not worry about it. If it is indeed an official question, then its a whole different thing - where in I will need to worry about changing our course work to reflect the change in position. :)
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Re: Verb-ed modifiers Vs. Verb-ing modifiers [#permalink]
egmat
1. When verb-ing modifier is separated from the clause using a comma, then this modifier modifies the preceding clause.

Shraddha, thanks very much for all your explanations.

I have a question about exception to the rule above. I ran into this GmatPrep answer choice yesterday:

10. The yield per acre of coffee berries varies enormously in that a single tree, depending on both its size and on climate and altitude, could produce enough berries to make between one and twelve pounds of dried beans a year.
A. enormously in that a single tree, depending on both its size and on climate and altitude, could produce
B. enormously in that a single tree, dependent on its size and also on climate and altitude, is able to produce
C. enormously, because a single tree, depending on its size and on climate and altitude, is able to produce
D. enormously, because a single tree, being dependent on its size, climate, and altitude, is capable of producing
E. enormously, because a single tree, dependent both on its size as well as on climate and altitude, could produce

The correct answer is C:
"The yield per acre of coffee berries varies enormously, because a single tree, depending on its size and on climate and altitude, is able to produce enough berries to make between one and twelve pounds of dried beans a year."

My understanding is that "depending on its size and on climate and altitude" modifies the following "is able to produce" and not the preceding clause or noun. When working on this problem, I decided that "depending on" modifies the preceding "single tree" according to Gmat rules, the conclusion that seems to be totally wrong.
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alexcey
egmat
1. When verb-ing modifier is separated from the clause using a comma, then this modifier modifies the preceding clause.

Shraddha, thanks very much for all your explanations.

I have a question about exception to the rule above. I ran into this GmatPrep answer choice yesterday:

10. The yield per acre of coffee berries varies enormously in that a single tree, depending on both its size and on climate and altitude, could produce enough berries to make between one and twelve pounds of dried beans a year.
A. enormously in that a single tree, depending on both its size and on climate and altitude, could produce
B. enormously in that a single tree, dependent on its size and also on climate and altitude, is able to produce
C. enormously, because a single tree, depending on its size and on climate and altitude, is able to produce
D. enormously, because a single tree, being dependent on its size, climate, and altitude, is capable of producing
E. enormously, because a single tree, dependent both on its size as well as on climate and altitude, could produce

The correct answer is C:
"The yield per acre of coffee berries varies enormously, because a single tree, depending on its size and on climate and altitude, is able to produce enough berries to make between one and twelve pounds of dried beans a year."

My understanding is that "depending on its size and on climate and altitude" modifies the following "is able to produce" and not the preceding clause or noun. When working on this problem, I decided that "depending on" modifies the preceding "single tree" according to Gmat rules, the conclusion that seems to be totally wrong.

Hi,
I think e-GMAT team is on leave till Jan-01 as per the mail from Rajat, the e-GMAT CEO .So, you can expect a reply from them on Jan-02 or after that..However if it comes prior to that day then it's a bonus for us..:) I also have few queries posted in different e-GMAT threads in the forum and awaiting their reply eagerly.

Now let's come to your qs.
I'm not an expert, but from my understanding the meaning of the sentence is as follows:
Coffee production varies.The reason is that a single tree produces different quantity of coffee berries.Now why or how it does that? Well that is driven by some internal and external factors like tree size and the climate of the area where the tree goes.
So, in conclusion,the tree is dependent on the above factors in order to produce the varying quantity of coffee berries...

Now, let's wait for the e-GMAT's reply...:)

Happy New Year... :thumbup:
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Hi alexcey and debayan,

Sorry for getting back a little late on this. Let’s study the sentence with the correct answer choice C:

The yield per acre of coffee berries varies enormously, because a single tree, depending on its size and on climate and altitude, is able to produce enough berries to make between one and twelve pounds of dried beans a year.

In this sentence “comma + depending…” modifies the clause “a single tree is able to produce…”. So it essentially modifies the action in the clause. In the article above, the Takeaway defines various ways of placing the verb-ing modifiers that modify the entire clause or the action in the clause.

1. Ria crossed the bridge, riding on her bicycle.
2. Riding on her bicycle, Ria crossed the bridge.
3. Ria, riding on her bicycle, crossed the bridge. – This construction is correct as used in the correct answer choice of the official question. So here we go. We learnt a new way of writing verb-ing modifier that modifies the action of the clause or in other words, modifies the clause. In all the three sentences, “riding…” modifies how Ria crossed the bridge – the action of the clause.

Similarly, “depending…” modifies a single tree is able to produce – the action of the clause.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Hi debayan,

Yes, your understanding of meaning is absolutely correct. You have explained it pretty well. However, the use of like in you sentence is incorrect. :wink:
Never mind. :) Your exaplanation is correct.

Thanks.
Shraddha
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