Would appreciate some 'Snarky' love

Question

Hi EssaySnark,

Greetings from a would-be 'BS'er! I would love the fact that everything that is written below will hopefully be ripped to pieces So here goes:-

Age- 27

Nationality - Indian

GMAT 2- 700 (Q49, V- 35, AWA-6.0)
GMAT 1- 680 (Q49, V-34)
WE- 4 years (so far) in Retail Analytics + Decision Making global firm (offices in US, UK, Asia and Europe)
1. worked with the 2nd largest grocery retailer in the US on streamlining their loyalty and rewards work stream, was recognized for my efforts with an inter-company award and a promotion
2. Worked with one of the largest coffee and fresh bread chains in the US, streamlining their loyalty card offering and making the program more personalized for the customer.
3. Working with the second largest grocery retailer in a Scandinavian country as my client, worked on the Pricing Strategy for one their store formats which has been rolled-out nationally. Worked directly with the pricing team of the Client, while being at their offices in Scandinavia.
4. Currently involved with 1:1 direct loyal customer mailing design and delivery team for the same retailer that helps them to reward and engage the customers and at the same time brings in incremental sales for them.

Undergrad- Bachelors in Engineering from Delhi University (Top 10 engineering college of the country)
Undergrad Score - 3.3

Leadership Roles/Community Service-

1. President of the Toastmasters Club of the corporate club at my organization, was also the VP, Education for the Club the year before I became the president. winner of awards at the Area level, Certified Competent Communicator. 
2. Head, Quizzing Club at my organization, started the club and am responsible for hosting all the trivia quizzing activities at the office. Have also represented the organization in inter-company quizzing competitions.
3. NGO work- working in my spare time with a charitable NGO which provides schooling to under-privileged slum kids
4. Head of Publications, IEEE-Student chapter at my undergrad college. Was responsible for the publication of all the technical magazines from the stable
5. Founder and Head of the Quiz Club at my undergrad college, have participated and won many inter-collegiate trivia competitions across the country.

Post MBA goals:-
To work in a firm like Amazon, which is the biggest online retailer and apply the principles of management, analytics and marketing to make the online experience even better.
Or
To move in the field of consulting where my inter-personal and analytical skills can be utilized to the fullest in providing the best strategic solutions to my Clients

Long term:-
To move in the field of academia, specifically in the domain of research in consumer behavior and marketing, after having worked close to 10-12 years in the industry. I am not targeting the PhD programs right now as I want 'on field' business experience in the multiple marketing channels that one is exposed to and then take the classroom + job experience as pieces of the puzzle to complete the picture, before I get into research.

Schools targeted:-
Dream- Kellogg, Wharton,Tuck (First 2 are good schools in the field of Marketing, Tuck very good in General Management & Consulting)
Reach- Duke, Ross, Darden, Johnson

I am not very happy with my GMAT score; it's not the score that I'd love to have, but it's something that I can live with. What do you think are my chances at an admit at these schools? Am i being realistic or will I be punching way above my weight if I apply to these schools? Should I look at some other schools as well? Planning to apply this year, so will have a WE of about 60 months if and when I start my classes in the Fall of 2014.

Thanks in advance!

essaysnark · Answer

Hey solerenegade - thanks for reaching out and let's see what kind of love we can bestow! First, we love that you defined everything in your profile - the fact that Amazon is the world's biggest online retailer, the fact that Kellogg is good at marketing and Tuck at general management, the fact that Delhi is a good school. We hadta laugh actually... :-)

It's better than the opposite when people toss out random acronyms and terms without defining them. But we kinda knew all that. Anyway, we're pleased that you're doing your research and have REASONS behind the things that you're defining for your future. Next, we love the detail you offered with your major projects -- but we didn't actually need it since most of them sound very similar. But it's good that you've had this high-profile assignments. And, we love that you've had time out of country - that's going to add a lot to your chances, actually. Finally, we love that you tried the GMAT again - but unfortunately you hardly budged that score. The raw quant/verbal were nearly identical from test 1 to test 2. The 700 score qualifies you for a good bschool, and we're a little reluctant to tell you to test again, given that the score didn't move much on your second attempt. Many of the schools you're naming are flexible and a 700 could be just fine, provided you've got the rest of the pieces of your app in place. We don't love that you reported your Delhi grades in the 4.0 system - where did you get that number? Doesn't that school use a %? That's how the bschools want it reported and that's what we'd prefer to see. We also don't love the either/or thing on the goals - sure, you're probably still kicking the tires on some ideas, but you can't present multiple ideas to the schools, you need to have a plan and stick to it. We don't love the vagueness with the goals either - you basically defined what consulting is there, which is unnecessary, and you didn't say what you want to do at Amazon. It's very hand-wavy. And - brace yourself - we REALLY don't love that long-term goal. Maybe that can be presented in a way that the schools will believe in you but to SkepticalSnark it just reeks of someone who wants to impress the adcom rather than someone who really plans to do that. We know that's really unfair, we don't know you at all and it could actually be your lifelong dream! But that's just the kneejerk reaction when we see stuff like that. Anyway, it seems pretty unrealistic; you can't go into academic research without the PhD, having a bunch of professional experience isn't a substitute. So we're simply questioning if you've done your homework. On the schools: Those could all be potential targets but again you aren't convincing us - you say that three schools are "dream" and the rest are "reach" - huh? What's the difference? Anyway, Duke isn't any easier to get into than the first three you named; Johnson, Ross, Darden, only marginally so. The list could make sense but we are not yet understanding the selection criteria. The grades and the GMAT are both below average. It sounds like you have good work experience and your time spent in the Scandanavian country is useful. A lot will be riding on those essays (and recs) and you'll definitely want to do a Round 1 app when we're talking Wharton and Kellogg. Kellogg will be hard to stand out at since everyone wants to go to Kellogg for marketing; Wharton, we're just not understanding why it's on the list - maybe it belongs but it's not enough to say "Marketing" (many schools are strong at marketing). There's others that are missing from the list that we would've expected to be there. So our reaction is, you've done some homework, clearly, but maybe there's more to be done? You should have a shot but it will come down to many things that we're not able to evaluate here - so keep plugging away, nail down the goals, get started on those essays and do a bang-up job on them, and it might work out. Good luck to you! EssaySnark

DorkusMaximus · Answer

Thank you for the 'love' EssaySnark! I guess you guys are actually not as 'snarky' as you make yourselves out on the blahg!

Jokes apart, I appreciate the feedback that you guys have given here. I'll put forward my thoughts and perspectives below. Yes, you are right. Most of my projects have the same core principle -customer centricity and loyalty. And that is because, the firm I work for is one of its kind in the work it does - customer science and decision making analytics. It gives me a unique profile (I think that, I might be wrong here though) and it could be my strongest suit in the entire application package. You are right! Delhi University and more specifically Delhi College Of Engineering (from where i did my engineering) does not hand out GPAs but raw percentages. My score was 65.05%. I translated it for your convenience and in some ways under estimated your knowledge and experience of working with Indian candidates. My apologies! :oops:

I retook the GMAT because of my Verbal score which is not a reflection of my proficiency at the Queen's language. It's frustrating that on both occasions I figured out new ways to muck up on the Verbal section on my GMAT, and hence put myself in a dodgy spot when it comes to academic abilities. As you mentioned, my grades and GMAT score are below average for the schools I am planning to apply. I have read your thoughts on the blahg around how we Indians chase a higher GMAT score considering it to be the only magic key to top-notch b-schools. For me it was more about being above the average/median GMAT numbers and in a way covering up for my not-so-great undergrad grades. On the goals part - I am still working on how to present them in a more convincing and compelling way. I like working with data and working with brands/retailers. For me the MBA is a necessary and ideal extension of how I take what I like doing to the next level. Most companies even in today's world grapple with the issues of where to put their money/investment and they base it on survey data, social network data etc. but are still not able to close the loop on how they can come up with insights combining all of this data together to complete the picture. And this is where I can step in - use the experience of data insights from my current work and combine it with working knowledge of how brands work and position themselves across multiple channels (which I can gain by doing an MBA). I hope this makes sense. if it still sounds wavy, please call it out. Also, I understand your point of view around the long term goal. I need to cut out the fluff and make it sound achievable and practical. On the schools thing- for me MBA is a big time investment (like it is with everybody else :D) If I am putting $$ in a school, the returns must compensate for it in terms of experience, skills developed/honed, and yes, a job after graduation that probably took me to the school in the first place. Hence I am keen on nothing but the top 10 schools. I might have called a few on the list as 'dream' in the sense that probably right now, my grades and GMAT might make them a bit of a stretch for me. Specifically I put all those schools, because they focus a lot on team work and give a 'community' like student experience which I believe are very integral in the world we live in today (unlike lets' say a Harvard or a Booth, though this might be a totally wrong perception that is out there). A Tuck or a Kellogg graduate is not only a smart chap but is also a 'nice' and amiable guy. Also, the strong alumni support that graduates of these schools enjoy make the MBA a lifetime experience and not just for the 2 years that one actually spends at the school. So in all this has been my frame of mind when I put up my profile. As you said, it makes a lot of sense to do more research and work on those areas that you have pointed out. If there is any other advice that you can give me, i would appreciate that a lot! Thanks again EssaySnark!

essaysnark · Answer

Hey solerenegade - thanks for the additional info. Didn't see any direct questions in there except to vet the goals blurb and more input on schools so we'll focus the response there.

The stuff you said about what you want to do is fine but it's still not being well expressed as an actual statement of what you want to do. In other words, all you did is talk ideas. That's fine but you won't have room in your essays to do a whole lot of that. Your background does look like a good setup to a job at Amazon etc but you'll need to do more work to communicate this stuff in a straightforward manner. The discussion around goals can be helpful in an interview, it's just that you won't get to that stage if you're not focused and clear in the essays. We're not pushing back on what we understand of your interests/general target, just saying you need to express it better.

On the schools: This list is still confusing. Why aren't MIT and NYU on this list? We say that for two reasons: 1) you're emphasizing this 'nice guy' and community thing, and those are two that are known for it; and 2) they are the only schools we know of with actual programs around data analytics. The entire Booth mission or philosophy (or whatever) is built around an analytical approach to business studies but we mean something different here. You have completely overlooked the two schools that seem like absolute perfect fits to you, so that's a head-scratcher.

Anyway... no we're not (usually) that snarky. :-)

(we have our moments...)

EssaySnark

(we have our moments...) EssaySnark

DorkusMaximus · Answer

Thanks again EssaySnark! The kind of 'love' I am getting I can safely say Christmas has arrived early for me this year

Advice on both fronts - goals essay and looking into Sloan and NYU- has been well received and is being acted upon. On the goals front, however, I have another question that perhaps you could throw some light upon. There is this debate whether industry experience can at times be a proxy/substitute for PhD to get into research and academia. To check that, I came up with this piece of info:- https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/News_Articles/2013/06272013-new-senior-fellow-sanjay-kosla.aspx Now this gentleman here is doing exactly what I intend to do at one of the schools I would want to be at. I have a simple query- does quoting such examples in my goal essays be considered positively? Maybe not quoting directly but tangentially as a data point? Tell me what you guys think! Thanks, solerenegade

essaysnark · Answer

Great question, solerenegade, and we're thrilled to see that you've taken our exchanges to heart thus far and have been pounding the virtual pavement and doing your research. It's absolutely true, lots of bschools have adjunct professors who come from the business world. But these are people teaching a side class here or there, or coming in as an Executive in Residence, or guest lecturing or something. They're not doing the research. That Kellogg announcement seems to dispute our assertion so let's look at the specifics of Mr. Khosla. The very first thing we want to call your attention to is the grey hair. That dude is old. :-)

At least, he is in comparison to you. He's gotta be in his... what, 60s or something? His LinkedIn says he was a Director at Unilever way back in 1977 (1977??? whoa). Next is the Senior Fellow thing. No disrespect intended to Mr. Khosla, but that seems almost like a one-off. The trusty ol' Google machine turned up only one other "Senior Fellow" at Kellogg - this isn't a standard role there. He's not actually faculty, as far as we can see ( he's not in the faculty directory ). So we can't say exactly what he's doing there... and his LinkedIn doesn't give us many more clues. We're not sure what the deal is for him, and maybe his LinkedIn just hasn't been updated - he doesn't seem like a heavy user there. The thing is, you stated a 10-12 year timeframe - and maybe that's putting you in line with what this guy's path has been. Sort of. But 10-12 years post-MBA is not what schools are expecting when they ask about goals. You could potentially still mention it, but it's definitely an atypical path ... and academia it's definitely not as lucrative as what most people are expecting down the road after getting the MBA. As possibly gulp-worthy evidence, we go back to Mr. Khosla and this public Forbes profile . We're not suggesting that you'll be at that level of earnings by the time you decide to start thinking about moving into research - hopefully you are!! But if you are, most adcoms are not going to buy this idea that you'll walk away from it at the prime of your life to go take a job at a university. Academic jobs just don't pay, especially not comparable to what you'd be getting after you've got some serious experience under your belt. The problem with this is it's in the category of "sounds good" but it's such a nontraditional, and possibly nonbelievable, path that you aren't gaining anything by using it in your essays. If it's really what you intend to do, then don't let us talk you out of it - we're huge fans of telling the truth in the essays, and going after the dreams. That's how good essays are built; the conviction and the authenticity comes through. But if this is just an idea you're kicking around... something that you've toyed with because of the allure or romanticism involved... well, not sure it's a great strategy. If you have evidence in your past of how you've done this already - if you worked on research projects in school and you apprenticed yourself to a rockstar professor and this is where your heart is - then you can totally make this work. But otherwise? It's potentially complicating your messaging in all sorts of ways and it can eat away at the credibility. A nice rule of thumb to follow with bschool essays is, if they don't ask for it, don't go there. They haven't asked for a 10-12 year goal. Why muddy the waters? All that being said: There's a way to pitch it if it's your passion. But if it's your passion, then we'd simply suggest you go for the PhD now instead. :-)

EssaySnark

Would appreciate some 'Snarky' love

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