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thomasedzhang
Joined: 19 Dec 2018
Last visit: 21 Feb 2021
Posts: 59
Given Kudos: 4
Location: Canada
Schools: Rotman '21 (A$) Desautels '21 (A$) Ivey '20 (D) LBS '22 (D) Sauder '22 (D) MBS '22 (A$) ESADE '23 (A) Bayes (A$)
GPA: 3.38
31 Dec 2018, 11:37
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Got admitted from both McGill and Rotman for MBA starting in Fall 2019 with same scholarship…
It is a real struggle I believe for a lot students. These two schools are really 50/50, and it is not just choosing school, but it is also choosing between two different cities.
My background-
Undergraduate: Industrial Engineering from Beijing, China
Graduate: Industrial Engineering from Montreal, Canada
Work experience: 4.5 years in project management from different industries in Montreal, Canada
Goal: Work as product manager or general manager for any IT or technology driven industry, or entertainment industry, like IBM, Ericsson, Ubisoft, Moment Factory, etc.
Applied only to Rotman, McGill and Ivey. Got rejected by Ivey 2 weeks after my application, I guess it is really competitive then.
Rotman:
Pros-
1) As a whole university, the ranking of U of T is higher than McGill in the world if you care about the rest of world
2) There are more majors at Rotman than Mcgill, there are 15 majors at Rotman, only 4 at Mcgill
3) There is a self development lab at Rotman which is focusing on developing your personal skills, I don't see or hear much about this type of thing at McGill
4) Economic center of Canada, a lot of people say there are more job in Toronto than Montreal, but I mean they are both big cities in Canada, Montreal is not that smaller than Toronto either, so…
5) Salary in Toronto is higher than Montreal, this might be arguable
6) Close to bay street, major corporation area. Easy to get networking activities close to school
7) You can live perfectly well with speaking only English
8) Probably more ethic minority group in Toronto since you don’t have to speak French, just Chinese and Indian population are already much bigger than in Montreal, so you might feel easier to get connected with your own group
9) A lot of different and good restaurants and boutiques that I don’t find in Montreal, like good Thai restaurant, or some fashion boutique. Even China town is much bigger in Toronto than Montreal.
10) Major concerts from US or UK stars always make a tour in Toronto, but not necessarily in Montreal if you like these type of things
11) Road condition in Toronto is much better than in Montreal, but if you end up living in suburb, like Markham or Mississauga, you most likely have to drive and it is pain in the ass with all the traffic
12) I think school efficiency is higher at Rotman and U of T. When I sent email to admission staff and other residency staff at U of T, I hear back from them very fast compared with McGill I would say.
Cons-
1) Tuition fee is really high, actually it is the highest in Canada
2) Living expense is higher too, the rent is 2 or 3 times than Montreal for similar situation, also the hydro, car insurance is higher than Montreal
3) There are more competition in Toronto after you graduate, you will compete with graduates from Rotman, Schulich, Ryerson, Ivey, Queens or even some outsiders like McGill, UBC, etc
4) Class size is biggest in Canada, there are 350 students each year. But I actually looked at other Top US and European school, it is common for a lot of them to have big class size. For example, Harvard has 950 students each year. But still, this might be an issue since you will share resource with a lot of students at the same time, I heard from a part time alumni, she mentioned you don't get that much personal attention from professor or staff, you really need to navigate through by yourself
5) I heard there is huge amount of Indian and Chinese students at Rotman, which might not be that interesting for you if you are already from these two groups and if you want to just experience other groups
6) A lot of people say that Toronto is a fake copy of New York, which means it has a lot of high buildings and a lot of financial institutions. But it kind lacks of some characters compared with Montreal or New York. It is just a modern city. I can’t really feel something really special about this city when I visited there
McGill:
Pros-
1) Good reputation as a whole university in the world and in Canada, I heard it has strong alumni networking in the northeast of US, like New York, Boston, Washington these area
2) Small class size, I think this has been mentioned by both school and students. There are only maximum 80 students a year. It is tight class, this helps you to get to know each other really well and get a lot of personal resource. But I also talked with one of McGill alumni, she said she actually felt that it might be better to have more students, so you have bigger network and learn from more students. I mean, it is really hard to judge if this is good or not. But 80 is really a small class size for a top university no matter in Canada or in the word
3) A lot of focus on consulting concentration, though I am not sure how many students actually get to there after graduation
4) Very cost effective program for a top university, tuition fee is cheaper than Rotman
5) Cost effective city-Montreal, the rent, food, transportation, hydro are all cheaper than Toronto. Montreal was ranked No.1 best student city in the world by QS in 2017
6) It is a cultural icon city in NA as it is the second largest French speaking city in the world after Paris, the people, personality, architectures are all unique because of French influence
7) Job prosperity is pretty good too in recent years in Montreal, a lot of AI, entertainment giants set up offices in Montreal
8) Immigration policy in Quebec is easier than other province based on my personal experience. In order to apply for Quebec CSQ, there is PEQ program for students you only need to graduate from a Quebec university and you need to pass a B2 level French language test or course (there are different ways to achieve this, through standard test or just passing certain government recognized class, I did the latter). It only took me two weeks to get my CSQ after I submit all documents and got my permanent residence from Federal government in a year. If you study in Ontario, I believe there is also program for master degree student, but per my communication with a lot of my friends in Ontario, it seems longer than Quebec for students stream. But I mean, you will get it no matter which city you live, you just follow the rule and do whatever step you need to do. Canada gives you 3 years open work permit after graduation, so you have plenty of time to apply your PR unless you don't want that
9) McGill is also in downtown of Montreal, so you will get plenty of chances to network with major companies in Montreal
10) There is Toronto networking event organized by Desautels to visit Toronto for three days with alumni and company representatives, so if you want to work in Toronto, you still get good chance to build your network there. 35% students still work in Toronto after graduation, so you can still expect good network in Toronto. I actually talked with one of recent alumni (2018 class) who works in Toronto now, so you can always count on some alumni in Toronto.
11) Day care is much cheaper in Quebec, in public day care, it is 7 or 8 dollar a day if I am not mistaken. If you go private, still cheaper than in Tornto. You can read this recent article to compare the day care cost, you will see monthly day care cost is only around 200 dollar in Quebec, but in Ontario is around 1000. This can be a big factor for MBA student who come here with family or who is ready to have children soon. https://www.ctvnews.ca/features/analysi ... -1.3940099
12) A lot of cultural activities in Montreal, both in summer and winter. Bar is better or at least open longer hours than Toronto. Like Gay village is much bigger than Toronto and I would say LGBTQ is much more acceptable in Quebec, though Toronto is acceptable too.
13) Cheese and wine in Quebec is better as this is what French people like! And more French restaurants in Montreal for sure if you want to experience really different culture.
14) There is international study trip for the whole class together at McGill. You will travel to a country with whole class for 10 days, it might be a life time experience. This is unique and mandatory and it is already included in your tuition fee, though I think you probably have to pay for your own flight and accommodation. In Rotman, there is also international experience opportunity, but they are not mandatory.
Cons-
1) There is less concentration of personal skills development compared Rotman which has a self development lab
2) Salary is slightly lower than Toronto, but you have to factor the living expense too. A lot of people say the higher salary in Toronto doesn't justify the higher living expense in Toronto. But the highest salary can be much higher than Montreal if you get that type of position
3) French might be a big issue for a lot of non francophone students for job after graduation. But for living in Montreal, daily life, it is not a real issue. Most of people in Montreal are bilingual; there is no issue to live your daily life here with only speaking English. But for job hunting, this can be an issue, especially for a lot of small to medium sized local companies, if you are in a position that you need a lot of communication with clients or internal team, then they prefer French speaking students since you need to communicate with a lot of local employees or local organizations who might be more comfortable in French, this should be totally understandable. If this is my native language, I will prefer to speak it as well. So if you choose Montreal, it is definitely advisable to start to learn French as this helps you a lot for both your daily life and your job hunting. But I can speak from my experience as a non francophone immigrant from China, you can still find good job in Montreal if your French is not that good. I found all my major jobs in English since most of my communication is done with outside of Quebec, like US or Europe or China. But I did get rejected a few times due to my poor French too. So it really depends on industry and specific company nature you are applying to. There is no absolute answer to this question. It is really case by case situation. But in terms of language training, there is free French language class at beginning of MBA when you enter McGill. And in Montreal, there are a lot of community centers offer free French language class to new comers based on different criteria. Even after you start to work in Montreal, a lot of companies offer free French class to employees. These classes are all subsidised by provincial government as it encourages people to live in Quebec with good skill.
4) There is less ethical minority population in Montreal, like Indian or Chinese, but still, there is a quite a lot of them as students in McGill, Concordia. And there are quite a lot of Chinese and Indian restaurants in downtown area in Montreal as most of students live in this area, we actually call it : New Chinatown
5) The winter in Montreal is a bit colder than Toronto as Montreal is a big north than Toronto, but still both cities are pretty cold and snow a lot in winter. So it is not like between Montreal and Miami. You know what I mean? But Quebec has better ski places than Ontario if you are into this.
6) Montreal road condition is very bad compared with a lot of major cities in the world. Government says it is due to our harsh winter. Well, this has been discussed endlessly in the media, in the election, in our daily life. But we never have an absolute answer for this question. Let’s just say this is a fact if this ever bothers you.
7) Medical system is super slow in Quebec, I heard Ontario is not that better either, but might be faster since they pay their doctors higher than in Quebec, and a lot of McGill medicine students relocate to Ontario for better salary. Since it is free here, a lot of sick or non-sick persons will go to clinic and hospitals, so you can expect pretty long wait time for small, non life threatening situation, even operation might have to wait if you are not dying next minute. It is based on severity of your illnesses, not first come first serve principle in hospitals. I have a family doctor, I would say he/she is your best and most efficient resource to go if it is not urgent.
8) Income tax is much higher in Quebec than in Ontario and government keeps saying it is because we have better social support system, I guess it is true since our tuition, transit, day care are already very cheap. You can see it from below articles about the different income tax: we are definitely like more European style in Quebec as a society:
https://montrealgazette.com/business/lo ... ecd-report
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Quebecs-in ... -in-Canada
In conclusion, this is just really based on my personal experience and what I learned from friends who live in different cities and my experience in travelling in Toronto. As you can see, I might put a lot more information for Montreal since I always live here since I came to Canada in 2012 as student. As I write down this article, it can actually help me to clarify that I might prefer to stay in Montreal with McGill for my study. But in the future, if there is better opportunity in Toronto for work, I might be willing to relocate. I hope I give good idea about both school and cities as I mentioned before, it is more than just choosing two schools, it is actually more about choosing two different cities. No matter you only want to live in Montreal or Toronto after school, it will be a lifetime 2 years’ experience at either school. You can have more discussion and experience to share if you are or were ever in this situation before. Generally, Canada is great place to live no matter which city. Good luck to all.
It is a real struggle I believe for a lot students. These two schools are really 50/50, and it is not just choosing school, but it is also choosing between two different cities.
My background-
Undergraduate: Industrial Engineering from Beijing, China
Graduate: Industrial Engineering from Montreal, Canada
Work experience: 4.5 years in project management from different industries in Montreal, Canada
Goal: Work as product manager or general manager for any IT or technology driven industry, or entertainment industry, like IBM, Ericsson, Ubisoft, Moment Factory, etc.
Applied only to Rotman, McGill and Ivey. Got rejected by Ivey 2 weeks after my application, I guess it is really competitive then.
Rotman:
Pros-
1) As a whole university, the ranking of U of T is higher than McGill in the world if you care about the rest of world
2) There are more majors at Rotman than Mcgill, there are 15 majors at Rotman, only 4 at Mcgill
3) There is a self development lab at Rotman which is focusing on developing your personal skills, I don't see or hear much about this type of thing at McGill
4) Economic center of Canada, a lot of people say there are more job in Toronto than Montreal, but I mean they are both big cities in Canada, Montreal is not that smaller than Toronto either, so…
5) Salary in Toronto is higher than Montreal, this might be arguable
6) Close to bay street, major corporation area. Easy to get networking activities close to school
7) You can live perfectly well with speaking only English
8) Probably more ethic minority group in Toronto since you don’t have to speak French, just Chinese and Indian population are already much bigger than in Montreal, so you might feel easier to get connected with your own group
9) A lot of different and good restaurants and boutiques that I don’t find in Montreal, like good Thai restaurant, or some fashion boutique. Even China town is much bigger in Toronto than Montreal.
10) Major concerts from US or UK stars always make a tour in Toronto, but not necessarily in Montreal if you like these type of things
11) Road condition in Toronto is much better than in Montreal, but if you end up living in suburb, like Markham or Mississauga, you most likely have to drive and it is pain in the ass with all the traffic
12) I think school efficiency is higher at Rotman and U of T. When I sent email to admission staff and other residency staff at U of T, I hear back from them very fast compared with McGill I would say.
Cons-
1) Tuition fee is really high, actually it is the highest in Canada
2) Living expense is higher too, the rent is 2 or 3 times than Montreal for similar situation, also the hydro, car insurance is higher than Montreal
3) There are more competition in Toronto after you graduate, you will compete with graduates from Rotman, Schulich, Ryerson, Ivey, Queens or even some outsiders like McGill, UBC, etc
4) Class size is biggest in Canada, there are 350 students each year. But I actually looked at other Top US and European school, it is common for a lot of them to have big class size. For example, Harvard has 950 students each year. But still, this might be an issue since you will share resource with a lot of students at the same time, I heard from a part time alumni, she mentioned you don't get that much personal attention from professor or staff, you really need to navigate through by yourself
5) I heard there is huge amount of Indian and Chinese students at Rotman, which might not be that interesting for you if you are already from these two groups and if you want to just experience other groups
6) A lot of people say that Toronto is a fake copy of New York, which means it has a lot of high buildings and a lot of financial institutions. But it kind lacks of some characters compared with Montreal or New York. It is just a modern city. I can’t really feel something really special about this city when I visited there
McGill:
Pros-
1) Good reputation as a whole university in the world and in Canada, I heard it has strong alumni networking in the northeast of US, like New York, Boston, Washington these area
2) Small class size, I think this has been mentioned by both school and students. There are only maximum 80 students a year. It is tight class, this helps you to get to know each other really well and get a lot of personal resource. But I also talked with one of McGill alumni, she said she actually felt that it might be better to have more students, so you have bigger network and learn from more students. I mean, it is really hard to judge if this is good or not. But 80 is really a small class size for a top university no matter in Canada or in the word
3) A lot of focus on consulting concentration, though I am not sure how many students actually get to there after graduation
4) Very cost effective program for a top university, tuition fee is cheaper than Rotman
5) Cost effective city-Montreal, the rent, food, transportation, hydro are all cheaper than Toronto. Montreal was ranked No.1 best student city in the world by QS in 2017
6) It is a cultural icon city in NA as it is the second largest French speaking city in the world after Paris, the people, personality, architectures are all unique because of French influence
7) Job prosperity is pretty good too in recent years in Montreal, a lot of AI, entertainment giants set up offices in Montreal
8) Immigration policy in Quebec is easier than other province based on my personal experience. In order to apply for Quebec CSQ, there is PEQ program for students you only need to graduate from a Quebec university and you need to pass a B2 level French language test or course (there are different ways to achieve this, through standard test or just passing certain government recognized class, I did the latter). It only took me two weeks to get my CSQ after I submit all documents and got my permanent residence from Federal government in a year. If you study in Ontario, I believe there is also program for master degree student, but per my communication with a lot of my friends in Ontario, it seems longer than Quebec for students stream. But I mean, you will get it no matter which city you live, you just follow the rule and do whatever step you need to do. Canada gives you 3 years open work permit after graduation, so you have plenty of time to apply your PR unless you don't want that
9) McGill is also in downtown of Montreal, so you will get plenty of chances to network with major companies in Montreal
10) There is Toronto networking event organized by Desautels to visit Toronto for three days with alumni and company representatives, so if you want to work in Toronto, you still get good chance to build your network there. 35% students still work in Toronto after graduation, so you can still expect good network in Toronto. I actually talked with one of recent alumni (2018 class) who works in Toronto now, so you can always count on some alumni in Toronto.
11) Day care is much cheaper in Quebec, in public day care, it is 7 or 8 dollar a day if I am not mistaken. If you go private, still cheaper than in Tornto. You can read this recent article to compare the day care cost, you will see monthly day care cost is only around 200 dollar in Quebec, but in Ontario is around 1000. This can be a big factor for MBA student who come here with family or who is ready to have children soon. https://www.ctvnews.ca/features/analysi ... -1.3940099
12) A lot of cultural activities in Montreal, both in summer and winter. Bar is better or at least open longer hours than Toronto. Like Gay village is much bigger than Toronto and I would say LGBTQ is much more acceptable in Quebec, though Toronto is acceptable too.
13) Cheese and wine in Quebec is better as this is what French people like! And more French restaurants in Montreal for sure if you want to experience really different culture.
14) There is international study trip for the whole class together at McGill. You will travel to a country with whole class for 10 days, it might be a life time experience. This is unique and mandatory and it is already included in your tuition fee, though I think you probably have to pay for your own flight and accommodation. In Rotman, there is also international experience opportunity, but they are not mandatory.
Cons-
1) There is less concentration of personal skills development compared Rotman which has a self development lab
2) Salary is slightly lower than Toronto, but you have to factor the living expense too. A lot of people say the higher salary in Toronto doesn't justify the higher living expense in Toronto. But the highest salary can be much higher than Montreal if you get that type of position
3) French might be a big issue for a lot of non francophone students for job after graduation. But for living in Montreal, daily life, it is not a real issue. Most of people in Montreal are bilingual; there is no issue to live your daily life here with only speaking English. But for job hunting, this can be an issue, especially for a lot of small to medium sized local companies, if you are in a position that you need a lot of communication with clients or internal team, then they prefer French speaking students since you need to communicate with a lot of local employees or local organizations who might be more comfortable in French, this should be totally understandable. If this is my native language, I will prefer to speak it as well. So if you choose Montreal, it is definitely advisable to start to learn French as this helps you a lot for both your daily life and your job hunting. But I can speak from my experience as a non francophone immigrant from China, you can still find good job in Montreal if your French is not that good. I found all my major jobs in English since most of my communication is done with outside of Quebec, like US or Europe or China. But I did get rejected a few times due to my poor French too. So it really depends on industry and specific company nature you are applying to. There is no absolute answer to this question. It is really case by case situation. But in terms of language training, there is free French language class at beginning of MBA when you enter McGill. And in Montreal, there are a lot of community centers offer free French language class to new comers based on different criteria. Even after you start to work in Montreal, a lot of companies offer free French class to employees. These classes are all subsidised by provincial government as it encourages people to live in Quebec with good skill.
4) There is less ethical minority population in Montreal, like Indian or Chinese, but still, there is a quite a lot of them as students in McGill, Concordia. And there are quite a lot of Chinese and Indian restaurants in downtown area in Montreal as most of students live in this area, we actually call it : New Chinatown
5) The winter in Montreal is a bit colder than Toronto as Montreal is a big north than Toronto, but still both cities are pretty cold and snow a lot in winter. So it is not like between Montreal and Miami. You know what I mean? But Quebec has better ski places than Ontario if you are into this.
6) Montreal road condition is very bad compared with a lot of major cities in the world. Government says it is due to our harsh winter. Well, this has been discussed endlessly in the media, in the election, in our daily life. But we never have an absolute answer for this question. Let’s just say this is a fact if this ever bothers you.
7) Medical system is super slow in Quebec, I heard Ontario is not that better either, but might be faster since they pay their doctors higher than in Quebec, and a lot of McGill medicine students relocate to Ontario for better salary. Since it is free here, a lot of sick or non-sick persons will go to clinic and hospitals, so you can expect pretty long wait time for small, non life threatening situation, even operation might have to wait if you are not dying next minute. It is based on severity of your illnesses, not first come first serve principle in hospitals. I have a family doctor, I would say he/she is your best and most efficient resource to go if it is not urgent.
8) Income tax is much higher in Quebec than in Ontario and government keeps saying it is because we have better social support system, I guess it is true since our tuition, transit, day care are already very cheap. You can see it from below articles about the different income tax: we are definitely like more European style in Quebec as a society:
https://montrealgazette.com/business/lo ... ecd-report
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Quebecs-in ... -in-Canada
In conclusion, this is just really based on my personal experience and what I learned from friends who live in different cities and my experience in travelling in Toronto. As you can see, I might put a lot more information for Montreal since I always live here since I came to Canada in 2012 as student. As I write down this article, it can actually help me to clarify that I might prefer to stay in Montreal with McGill for my study. But in the future, if there is better opportunity in Toronto for work, I might be willing to relocate. I hope I give good idea about both school and cities as I mentioned before, it is more than just choosing two schools, it is actually more about choosing two different cities. No matter you only want to live in Montreal or Toronto after school, it will be a lifetime 2 years’ experience at either school. You can have more discussion and experience to share if you are or were ever in this situation before. Generally, Canada is great place to live no matter which city. Good luck to all.
31 Dec 2018, 13:22
Kudos
Bookmarks
Thank you very much for posting this very thorough overview of McGill and Rotman!
Congratulations on your admits too!
The reason you got dinged at Ivey may be due to a few reasons - you just never know. Sometimes people get into Booth but dinged at Anderson because Anderson thinks they will not attend.
Having a large program size is good in most perspectives - it means you have a diverse group so you are more likely to find people who are similarly-minded and those who are recruiting in a similar industry. You would have more clubs and more focus. The alum network is larger too but that has its pros and cons (means alums in good positions are getting hit a lot more and thus are tired of prospective students contacting them). Most important, employers like large programs as they can get more bang for their buck in terms of recruiting. You would have more on-campus recruiting opportunities as the result.
P.S. I thought people said Toronto is a copy of Chicago? I don't think that's true per se based on my 2 visits. I like Toronto much better than most US cities but that's of course my US perspective
Congratulations on your admits too!
The reason you got dinged at Ivey may be due to a few reasons - you just never know. Sometimes people get into Booth but dinged at Anderson because Anderson thinks they will not attend.
Having a large program size is good in most perspectives - it means you have a diverse group so you are more likely to find people who are similarly-minded and those who are recruiting in a similar industry. You would have more clubs and more focus. The alum network is larger too but that has its pros and cons (means alums in good positions are getting hit a lot more and thus are tired of prospective students contacting them). Most important, employers like large programs as they can get more bang for their buck in terms of recruiting. You would have more on-campus recruiting opportunities as the result.
P.S. I thought people said Toronto is a copy of Chicago? I don't think that's true per se based on my 2 visits. I like Toronto much better than most US cities but that's of course my US perspective
thomasedzhang
Joined: 19 Dec 2018
Last visit: 21 Feb 2021
Posts: 59
Own Kudos:
Given Kudos: 4
Location: Canada
Schools: Rotman '21 (A$) Desautels '21 (A$) Ivey '20 (D) LBS '22 (D) Sauder '22 (D) MBS '22 (A$) ESADE '23 (A) Bayes (A$)
GPA: 3.38
Schools: Rotman '21 (A$) Desautels '21 (A$) Ivey '20 (D) LBS '22 (D) Sauder '22 (D) MBS '22 (A$) ESADE '23 (A) Bayes (A$)
Posts: 59
Kudos:
23
31 Dec 2018, 13:32
Kudos
Bookmarks
bb
Thank you for your input as well. Yeah, class size is always something worth to debate, that's why I researched the major US and European schools, it is kind common to have big class size for them.
I am not sure Toronto is a copy of who, but it is something worth debate too, since it is not that unique like Montreal or Paris
