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27 Aug 2008, 08:32
Kudos
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gixxer1000
Impressive! Well thought-out rebuttal.
What happened to the kudos feature on these forums?!
27 Aug 2008, 08:41
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I apologize in advance for my comments in red. They may be insensitive and sarcastic, but it really bothers me when people going to business school think corporations and the rich owe them something. It would be wise to learn now, that they don't.
gixxer1000
27 Aug 2008, 10:14
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It's hard to gauge tone on a forum, but it sounds like you need to relax. 1st of all where did I say a corporation owes ME anything. And why does my opinion bother you so much. And why does it matter that I have this opinion entering business school. I'm glad that you have the opinion you do and look forward to meeting you in business schools. Maybe your world view will allow me to realize things that I overlooked and vice versa. Isn't that one of the biggest purposes of business schools, to learn from other students. It doesn't really work that well if everyone already has a pompous attitude and thinks everyone who doesn't think like them would be "wise to learn now" that you are 100% correct.
No one is talking about any conspiracy. If I was making huge amounts of money and had the ability in to influence legislation so that I could keep more of that money then I probably would. But America gave me the opportunity to make that money. Our infrastructure help to make that money. I'm sure I used our roads to make that money. I'm sure I have a few publicly educated workers who helped me make that money and I'm sure I used middle class income to make that money. Try selling these service to countries where the people cant afford them. The middle class wouldn't be buying cell phones and cars if they didn't have the money to do so. So yes I think it is in the best interest of everyone to contribute to the middle class.
"Actually it has gone up since 2000, check out the Census figures that came out yesterday."
Just because income has gone up doesn't mean purchasing power has. The average purchasing power of families has decreased $1000 over the past 8 years.
"People move in and out of the middle class all of the time. When people retire, get promoted, get fired, etc. A person's status in the middle class is determined by how much money a person reported on their income taxes last year. People retire, go back to school, stop working, etc and they may be considered in the middle class and only claimed $40,000 in taxable income last year, but they may have asstes worth $10 million It only depends on how much they earned last year. Truthfully, it's really an arcane way to measure."
Now your arguing semantics. While I agree that it is hard to define the middle class I think we can all agree that someone with an income of $40k and assets of $10 million is not in the middle class.
"It decreased in 1922 to 58% for people earning over $1,000,000 a year (Equivalent to $10,000,000 a year in today's dollars), It was lowered to 25% in 1925."
In 1918 it was 73% and in 1925 is was 25%. Then after the depression it increased to 63% then climbed to 92% in 1953. It then hovered around 70% until 1981.
"Why do rich people owe you something for doing nothing? What do they have to share the fruits of their hard work? Why don't you not complain about what other people are doing and do something to make yourself rich? Getting an MBA is a pretty good start"
The funny thing is that in your essays you'll probably write about how you volunteer to help end poverty. But here is the truth that you really don't care about them. Do you really think that C-level employees actually work that much hard and create that much more wealth than the line workers? Does Brittney Spears really work that much harder than a veterinarian or a construction worker?
"I hope you are exaggerating here, but for what its worth the GMs of McDonalds make over $100K a year. So maybe you shouldn't be dissing fast food employees"
There is actually a lot of people making a lot of good money at McDonals. But I clearly was referring to entry level position which followed my previous point that increase in the percentage of educated people will lead to increased barriers of entry of to lower level jobs and not an increase in the income of the middle class.
"There are currently 9.3 million Millionaire families in this country, not a small number."
Wow, so thats about 8% of us households. And of those there are probably plenty that while consider millionaires still live above their means and probably won't transfer that wealth to their children, meaning that even a smaller percentage of the population are actually millionaires.
You have a more conservative view and I have a more progressive. I respect your opinion and would not proceed to tell you what you need to learn prior to entering bschool.
And one last thing, don't apologize in advance for your comments. If you have to apologize before you even say them then you probably don't need to say them at all.
No one is talking about any conspiracy. If I was making huge amounts of money and had the ability in to influence legislation so that I could keep more of that money then I probably would. But America gave me the opportunity to make that money. Our infrastructure help to make that money. I'm sure I used our roads to make that money. I'm sure I have a few publicly educated workers who helped me make that money and I'm sure I used middle class income to make that money. Try selling these service to countries where the people cant afford them. The middle class wouldn't be buying cell phones and cars if they didn't have the money to do so. So yes I think it is in the best interest of everyone to contribute to the middle class.
"Actually it has gone up since 2000, check out the Census figures that came out yesterday."
Just because income has gone up doesn't mean purchasing power has. The average purchasing power of families has decreased $1000 over the past 8 years.
"People move in and out of the middle class all of the time. When people retire, get promoted, get fired, etc. A person's status in the middle class is determined by how much money a person reported on their income taxes last year. People retire, go back to school, stop working, etc and they may be considered in the middle class and only claimed $40,000 in taxable income last year, but they may have asstes worth $10 million It only depends on how much they earned last year. Truthfully, it's really an arcane way to measure."
Now your arguing semantics. While I agree that it is hard to define the middle class I think we can all agree that someone with an income of $40k and assets of $10 million is not in the middle class.
"It decreased in 1922 to 58% for people earning over $1,000,000 a year (Equivalent to $10,000,000 a year in today's dollars), It was lowered to 25% in 1925."
In 1918 it was 73% and in 1925 is was 25%. Then after the depression it increased to 63% then climbed to 92% in 1953. It then hovered around 70% until 1981.
"Why do rich people owe you something for doing nothing? What do they have to share the fruits of their hard work? Why don't you not complain about what other people are doing and do something to make yourself rich? Getting an MBA is a pretty good start"
The funny thing is that in your essays you'll probably write about how you volunteer to help end poverty. But here is the truth that you really don't care about them. Do you really think that C-level employees actually work that much hard and create that much more wealth than the line workers? Does Brittney Spears really work that much harder than a veterinarian or a construction worker?
"I hope you are exaggerating here, but for what its worth the GMs of McDonalds make over $100K a year. So maybe you shouldn't be dissing fast food employees"
There is actually a lot of people making a lot of good money at McDonals. But I clearly was referring to entry level position which followed my previous point that increase in the percentage of educated people will lead to increased barriers of entry of to lower level jobs and not an increase in the income of the middle class.
"There are currently 9.3 million Millionaire families in this country, not a small number."
Wow, so thats about 8% of us households. And of those there are probably plenty that while consider millionaires still live above their means and probably won't transfer that wealth to their children, meaning that even a smaller percentage of the population are actually millionaires.
You have a more conservative view and I have a more progressive. I respect your opinion and would not proceed to tell you what you need to learn prior to entering bschool.
And one last thing, don't apologize in advance for your comments. If you have to apologize before you even say them then you probably don't need to say them at all.
. You mentioned something in a prior post about passing wealth onto one's children. I've read an article somewhere, and I'll try to find it, that in America over the last few centuries, the wealth created by people that have been self-made and started companies and become very rich does not last for more than 2 generations. This could partly that the companies are organized and sold into shares, thereby creating a finite amount of wealth rather than continuously owning a business that is constantly making money, or the fact that some people would rather just live their life and be a teacher. I really will try to find that article.
