Last visit was: 19 Nov 2025, 23:35 It is currently 19 Nov 2025, 23:35
Home
GMAT
Messages
Tests
Schools
Events
Rewards
Chat
My Profile
Close
GMAT Club Daily Prep
Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History
Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.
Go to My Error Log Learn more
Close
Request Expert Reply
Confirm Cancel
User avatar
Audio
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Last visit: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 408
Own Kudos:
87
Concentration: Finance
Schools:Wharton, Booth, Stern
Posts: 408
Kudos: 87
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 12:04
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
A couple of days ago we had a presentation of the stats for the class of 2009 in terms of internship. I can't remember the figures by heart, but roughly 200 - 240 students landed an internship in IB in 2007, compared to... over 420 in 2006! (class size is roughly 800). Did the students from the other schools notice this too?

And for the next summer it seems that it's not going to get any easier: the career changers were recommended "not to change drastically all the variables" in terms of employment search (by that he was referring to the industry, the region, etc).

Seems like it's going to be a tough year to come in terms of employment...
User avatar
jallenmorris
User avatar
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Last visit: 09 Oct 2014
Posts: 1,227
Own Kudos:
963
Given Kudos: 32
Location: Oklahoma City
Concentration: Life
Schools:Hard Knocks
Posts: 1,227
Kudos: 963
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 12:10
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
There was an article someone posted a link to regarding career path and economic situation at the time of graduation. Great article showing how someone's earning potential had as much to do with economic stability of the nation as it does the person's ability. If Wharton only placed 200 people in IB internships v. 450+ the year before, any one of those 250 that didn't get one could have been a great banker, but won't likely get the chance to because that internship seems to be very important towards landing a job post-mba in IB. I'll try to find that article, or someone else can try to and post it whenever it's found.
User avatar
solaris1
User avatar
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Last visit: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 1,431
Own Kudos:
223
Given Kudos: 22
Concentration: General Management
Schools:NYU Stern '11
Posts: 1,431
Kudos: 223
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 12:12
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Was the percentage of students accepting internships still in the high 90's?
User avatar
sonibubu
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Last visit: 18 Aug 2011
Posts: 810
Own Kudos:
158
Given Kudos: 1
Location: Chicago
Concentration: Strategy, Management, Finance
Schools:Chicago Booth 2011
Posts: 810
Kudos: 158
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 12:32
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Wow, if IB internships decreased that much at WHARTON I wonder how bad it was at lower ranked finance (and non-finance) schools (NYU, Chicago, Columbia).
User avatar
3underscore
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Last visit: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 1,428
Own Kudos:
234
Given Kudos: 6
Location: New York, NY
Concentration: Finance (Corp Fin, Financial Instruments)
Schools:NYU Stern 2009
Posts: 1,428
Kudos: 234
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 12:37
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
sonibubu
Wow, if IB internships decreased that much at WHARTON I wonder how bad it was at lower ranked finance (and non-finance) schools (NYU, Chicago, Columbia).
Show more

When you see the numbers in the main banks, you will be surprised how this just simply isn't a "dominance" thing that branding and positioning with prospectives suggests. That is by the by though, and a whole other world of complication.

As for the first question and thread topic - virtually every single bank took classes half the size they had the year previous, in IB and S&T. The bank that didn't recruited as low as 30% of the summers, whereas elsewhere it was around 50-60% (these figures are a mix of S&T and IB from what I have heard). If there isn't a turn around in the next two months, it is likely it will look similar in class size for class of 2010.

Investment Bank people are meant to like competition, so it is a good thing, right?!
User avatar
riverripper
User avatar
Major Poster
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Last visit: 20 Aug 2022
Posts: 4,306
Own Kudos:
806
Given Kudos: 5
Location: Back in Chicago, IL
Concentration: General/Operations Management
Schools:Kellogg Alum: Class of 2010
GMAT 1: 740 Q49 V42
Posts: 4,306
Kudos: 806
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 13:31
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
I am curious how students will take this. The biggest part of going to a top MBA program is to get your dream job or at least a great job with a great company. If people come up completely empty they are going to be a little upset about spending 100k+ and missing two years pay. It will be interesting to see how this affects rankings and what not since employment stats and students opinions are big factors in most rankings. Banking schools could take a hit in the rankings.
User avatar
Audio
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Last visit: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 408
Own Kudos:
87
Concentration: Finance
Schools:Wharton, Booth, Stern
Posts: 408
Kudos: 87
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 13:48
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
solaris1
Was the percentage of students accepting internships still in the high 90's?
Show more

Dunno, I can't remember talking about that subject...
User avatar
IHateTheGMAT
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Last visit: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 623
Own Kudos:
61
Concentration: Investment Banking or Investment Management
Posts: 623
Kudos: 61
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 14:02
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
riverripper
I am curious how students will take this. The biggest part of going to a top MBA program is to get your dream job or at least a great job with a great company. If people come up completely empty they are going to be a little upset about spending 100k+ and missing two years pay. It will be interesting to see how this affects rankings and what not since employment stats and students opinions are big factors in most rankings. Banking schools could take a hit in the rankings.
Show more

That's true. I'd imagine there will be some very upset students at the banking schools. Something interesting that I noticed about the "banking schools" when I was researching Chicago GSB is that everyone thinks these schools are filled with bankers (analysts) that want to become bankers (associates). But I noticed that at Chicago GSB only 31% of students came from a finance background while 55% went into finance after graduation. So, while I'm sure 31% is a little bit high relative to other schools a banking school is really defined by the exit careers of the students, not the entering careers. Using the numbers above for Chicago, roughly a quarter of the school watned to make a career change into finance (from some other career). In today's market that is going to be nearly impossible. I know people that graduated during the last recession and they said it was hard enough to switch functions within your industry - such as corporate finance to IB - let alone transition to a brand new industry. I would imagine up to a quarter of the class at finance schools such as Chicago could be pretty unhappy.
User avatar
sarzan
User avatar
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Last visit: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 91
Own Kudos:
39
Posts: 91
Kudos: 39
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 14:17
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Audio
A couple of days ago we had a presentation of the stats for the class of 2009 in terms of internship. I can't remember the figures by heart, but roughly 200 - 240 students landed an internship in IB in 2007, compared to... over 420 in 2006! (class size is roughly 800). Did the students from the other schools notice this too?

And for the next summer it seems that it's not going to get any easier: the career changers were recommended "not to change drastically all the variables" in terms of employment search (by that he was referring to the industry, the region, etc).

Seems like it's going to be a tough year to come in terms of employment...
Show more

Would any of you interpret that schools like Wharton may admit more than before students who wish to return to industry careers? I would make that interpretations as certain sectors of the economy are doing quite well and schools like Wharton may not want to have internship employment decreases. I anticipate the banking jobs trend to remain low for the next 2 years or so.
avatar
Hardestadt
avatar
Current Student
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Last visit: 15 Apr 2011
Posts: 20
Own Kudos:
2
Given Kudos: 11
Schools:Wharton
Posts: 20
Kudos: 2
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 14:20
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
There is a recent article by Stanford professor Paul Oyer titled "The Making of an Investment Banker: Macroeconomic Shocks, Career Choice, and Lifetime Income". His data shows that stock market shocks have important and lasting effects on careers of MBAs. He estimates that a person who graduates in a bull market and goes to work in investment banking upon graduation earns an additional $1.5 million to $5 million relative to what that same person would have earned if he or she had graduated during a bear market and had started his or her career in some other industry."
https://faculty-gsb.stanford.edu/oyer/wp/mba.pdf
User avatar
solaris1
User avatar
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Last visit: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 1,431
Own Kudos:
223
Given Kudos: 22
Concentration: General Management
Schools:NYU Stern '11
Posts: 1,431
Kudos: 223
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 15:29
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Thanks, it would be interesting if all the bankers who did not score internships were able to secure gigs elsewhere. Or did students have to forego internships altogether.

Audio
solaris1
Was the percentage of students accepting internships still in the high 90's?

Dunno, I can't remember talking about that subject...
Show more
User avatar
3underscore
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Last visit: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 1,428
Own Kudos:
234
Given Kudos: 6
Location: New York, NY
Concentration: Finance (Corp Fin, Financial Instruments)
Schools:NYU Stern 2009
Posts: 1,428
Kudos: 234
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 15:33
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Most people found something, some didn't (depends on how flexible they were to change choices and things). The bank recruitment ends by Feb. If you don't get something, you have four months to get something. Which is hardly implausible, so you should be OK (HF, PE, VC all mill around late on as their recruiting plans are more improvised and decided later).

In effect, all you miss out on is the real big fall recruitment companies if it doesn't work out.
User avatar
ryguy904
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Last visit: 10 Sep 2013
Posts: 859
Own Kudos:
216
Given Kudos: 4
Location: Sunny So Cal
Concentration: Investment Management
Schools:CBS, Cornell, Duke, Ross, Darden
Posts: 859
Kudos: 216
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 15:38
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Hardestadt
There is a recent article by Stanford professor Paul Oyer titled "The Making of an Investment Banker: Macroeconomic Shocks, Career Choice, and Lifetime Income". His data shows that stock market shocks have important and lasting effects on careers of MBAs. He estimates that a person who graduates in a bull market and goes to work in investment banking upon graduation earns an additional $1.5 million to $5 million relative to what that same person would have earned if he or she had graduated during a bear market and had started his or her career in some other industry."
https://faculty-gsb.stanford.edu/oyer/wp/mba.pdf
Show more

"The results also suggest that risk averse MBA students, especially those interested in Wall Street careers, may want to take actions to insure themselves against the random wealth effects imposed by stock returns while they study. These students should short the stock market upon entering school so that their portfolios hedge their expected labor income."

:shock:
User avatar
89nk
User avatar
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Last visit: 16 Dec 2012
Posts: 321
Own Kudos:
59
Given Kudos: 10
Location: Texas
Posts: 321
Kudos: 59
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 16:04
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
ryguy904
Hardestadt
There is a recent article by Stanford professor Paul Oyer titled "The Making of an Investment Banker: Macroeconomic Shocks, Career Choice, and Lifetime Income". His data shows that stock market shocks have important and lasting effects on careers of MBAs. He estimates that a person who graduates in a bull market and goes to work in investment banking upon graduation earns an additional $1.5 million to $5 million relative to what that same person would have earned if he or she had graduated during a bear market and had started his or her career in some other industry."
https://faculty-gsb.stanford.edu/oyer/wp/mba.pdf

"The results also suggest that risk averse MBA students, especially those interested in Wall Street careers, may want to take actions to insure themselves against the random wealth effects imposed by stock returns while they study. These students should short the stock market upon entering school so that their portfolios hedge their expected labor income."

:shock:
Show more

Why the shock? Not sure if I understood that excerpt correctly.
User avatar
solaris1
User avatar
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Last visit: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 1,431
Own Kudos:
223
Given Kudos: 22
Concentration: General Management
Schools:NYU Stern '11
Posts: 1,431
Kudos: 223
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 16:20
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
If the broader market keeps tanking, you make money off of your shorts. If it recovers, Wall Street goes on a hiring spree and you'll land a 250-300k a year Associate gig anyway.

So you come out ahead irrespective of where the market goes. That's how it's supposed to work in theory.

89nk
Why the shock? Not sure if I understood that excerpt correctly.
Show more
User avatar
ryguy904
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Last visit: 10 Sep 2013
Posts: 859
Own Kudos:
216
Given Kudos: 4
Location: Sunny So Cal
Concentration: Investment Management
Schools:CBS, Cornell, Duke, Ross, Darden
Posts: 859
Kudos: 216
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 16:30
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
solaris1
So you come out ahead irrespective of where the market goes. That's how it's supposed to work in theory.
Show more

Actually what he is saying is that a risk averse MBA student should hedge (i.e., make the outcome neutral regardless of what happens to the stock market) his/her MBA post-grad job by shorting the S&P upon entering b-school.

Translation:
1) You are long finance human capital
Performance of this position:
a) Stock market goes up ---> Get an IB position
b) Stock market goes down ---> Don't get an IB position

2)Short S&P
Performance of this position:
a) Stock market goes up ---> Lose money on your short position
b) Stock market goes down ---> Gain money on your short position

The final outcome is that you have a net neutral position. I understand the mechanics of the theory. I'm having a hard time wrapping my arms around it and buying into it, though (hence the shocked expression)...
User avatar
3underscore
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Last visit: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 1,428
Own Kudos:
234
Given Kudos: 6
Location: New York, NY
Concentration: Finance (Corp Fin, Financial Instruments)
Schools:NYU Stern 2009
Posts: 1,428
Kudos: 234
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 16:35
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
That isn't what he is saying - it is a partial hedge in that respect. The idea is that you get the IB job come-what-may. It pays less if you go into a bear market rather than bull (promotion, bonus).

I think it is just a desperate scrape around to make an interesting, quoted article. In reality, I expect going in at the tail of a bear is better than having gone in 2006, which was clearly bull... yet now a large volume are unemployed.
User avatar
jallenmorris
User avatar
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Last visit: 09 Oct 2014
Posts: 1,227
Own Kudos:
963
Given Kudos: 32
Location: Oklahoma City
Concentration: Life
Schools:Hard Knocks
Posts: 1,227
Kudos: 963
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 22 Aug 2008, 18:35
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
3underscore
That isn't what he is saying - it is a partial hedge in that respect. The idea is that you get the IB job come-what-may. It pays less if you go into a bear market rather than bull (promotion, bonus).

I think it is just a desperate scrape around to make an interesting, quoted article. In reality, I expect going in at the tail of a bear is better than having gone in 2006, which was clearly bull... yet now a large volume are unemployed.
Show more

I certainly hope so for us Fall 2009 entrants! The economy maybe in recovery, but it could also be a prolonged / more defined recession. It seems like media is all too quick to say an economic slow down is a recession and far too slow to say positive economic signs mean a turn to better days. Those talking heads on MSNBC are a bunch of pessimits!
User avatar
jb32
User avatar
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Last visit: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 773
Own Kudos:
155
Given Kudos: 9
Location: Texas
Concentration: Finance
Schools:Kellogg Class of 2011
Posts: 773
Kudos: 155
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 23 Aug 2008, 09:00
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Hopefully the NBER will come out and say a recession started already, since the recession usually ends about the time they tell you it starts. It's almost uncanny how accurate it is.

November 26, 2001 - Announced Recession started in March, 2 years later the Announcement was made the recession ended that November

April 25, 1991 - Announced Recession started in July 1990, later the Announcement was made the recession ended in March 1991

So as soon as the NBER comes out, I will feel much better about the internship prospects for summer 2010.
User avatar
89nk
User avatar
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Last visit: 16 Dec 2012
Posts: 321
Own Kudos:
59
Given Kudos: 10
Location: Texas
Posts: 321
Kudos: 59
Wharton - ugly stats for 2007 internships 23 Aug 2008, 13:59
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
jb32
Hopefully the NBER will come out and say a recession started already, since the recession usually ends about the time they tell you it starts. It's almost uncanny how accurate it is.

November 26, 2001 - Announced Recession started in March, 2 years later the Announcement was made the recession ended that November

April 25, 1991 - Announced Recession started in July 1990, later the Announcement was made the recession ended in March 1991

So as soon as the NBER comes out, I will feel much better about the internship prospects for summer 2010.
Show more

I never knew this, but that is just silly.
 1   2   3   4   5   6