What Should I do?

Question

I'm at a loss of what to do at this point. I took the GMAT last Friday and failed to receive a higher score than my 710. Normally a 710 would be great but my GPA is a 3.0. Even though its a 3.0 from a top 3 liberal arts school it will probably hurt me considerably for most of the schools I'm applying to. I have great extra cirriculars as I was a 4time all American, Team Captain, and National Champion in my respective College sport but I'm not sure if this will be enough to explain or negate my low GPA. I'm trying to switch from real estate finance to Asset management. Asset management is one of the few areas where there seems to be quite a disparity between the top 10 and top 20 schools.

I'm applying to Uchicago, Columbia ED, and possibly Wharton ( only because they are now taking only Gmat scores 700+ which I would figure would increase my chances of getting into Wharton relative to years past as the 700-730 pool is larger. These 3 schools are far definitely reaches.

The chances of getting into Uchicago, Columbia, and Wharton are all lower in round 2 ( especially Columbia ED vs Columbia round 1) so I'm not sure if I should hold off or not in the hopes of a higher Gmat score. It's definitely too late to take another GMAT test for round 1.

The other schools I'm applying to are Cornell, Michigan, and Duke in round 1 but from what I've heard there is a large gap between these schools and the schools above ( at least that's what I hear from some students)

So should I retake the GMAT in the hopes I get a higher score ( 730+, hopefully 750) and apply to schools such as Northwestern and Tuck in round 2 or will I not have a shot even with a 730 or 750 and just go to Cornell, Michigan, or Duke provided I get in. The other schools I would apply to in round 2 are probably UNC, USC, and UT Austin.

samkhat77 · Answer

Also very curious about this as I am in the same boat! Couldn't beat my first GMAT score.

HardWorkBeatsAll · Answer

I think you should apply.

Time and again adcoms tell people not to be fixated with scores and that it's the complete package that is "you" that they want to look at.

4 hours spent researching a school will help you more at this stage than 4 hours spent taking the GMAT again (if you are applying in round 1).

I'd recommend connecting to people, getting the application right and creating a great app. With strong extracurriculars, it should turn out well for you.

How confident are you of scoring 740+? Don't do it for a 10 or 20 point increase. If you really think you can do 740+, that'll help as your GPA is low. If not, then I'd advise you to focus on your application more. Early rounds help so you should have a slight edge there.

VeritasPrepDozie · Answer

Thanks for sharing your profile. GPA aside it seems you have a tremendous profile. Not sure why you are downplaying it. If you were the caliber of athlete you have shared then to me there is an obvious explanation for your low GPA. Schools look at the entire package holistically and not just one data point, even though each aspect is very important especially at these very elite programs. So schools will certainly take your contributions and engagement during undergrad into consideration. There will certainly be candidates with higher GPAs but I doubt many will have the extra-curricular engagement that you have through athletics. I would recommend utilizing the optional essay to explain your 40+ hour commitment to athletics and how that contributed to your low GPA (at a top school) and how the GMAT is a better representation of your aptitude.

The choice is your but unless you are totally confident you can nail a 730+ not sure it makes sense to retake.

Hope this helps!

The choice is your but unless you are totally confident you can nail a 730+ not sure it makes sense to retake.

Hope this helps!

jz4analytics · Answer

I've thought about this a lot as well, and the brutal truth is that these sorts of standardized tests are difficult to budge much. The GMAT is a fantastic test in that it's not very "learnable." Most people who take the GMAT have graduated college, gotten reasonably good grades, and performed in the work place to consider going to business school a good idea. The GMAT is made to be a separation mechanism to weed out people who otherwise look similar academically. You're not supposed to do much better by completing all the problem sets and being prepared.

Also, the population taking it is smarter and more accomplished than the general one. I've heard estimates that your GMAT score should be roughly half your 1600 SAT score - 30 (the downward adjustment for the tougher competition). So the people who are getting 700-720 GMATs probably got 1400+ SAT scores (this makes sense: the top 15 programs have GMAT scores around 710-730, and half of their US students came from schools with 1400-1500 SATs). I'm mentioning this to put in perspective how adcoms probably view a 710 GMAT. They likely consider you intelligent and capable of completing the program. The GMAT correlates strongly with BSchool grades (I've seen this at around 40%), even more than UGPA does. MBA programs wouldn't continue accepting large numbers 680-720 GMAT applicants if the evidence was against them succeeding!

Considering all this, do you think the first two takes did NOT represent you? A lot of people come on here expecting to get a 99th percentile, but let's face it, that's not realistic, and the GMAT would fail to be a good exam if you could study your way to a 760. Maybe you can get a 720 next time... would that be worth it? I doubt adcoms see a 710 much differently from a 720.

EDIT: Maybe people who have experienced significant jumps in scores (i.e. 710 to 750) could chime in on how they did it and what kind of effort there needs to be.

PersonalMBACoach · Answer

Plenty of people retake GMAT and see significant improvement, especially if they study differently (more focused, potentially hiring a tutor to help you increase). Every year I see this happen.

However, you really want 730-740+ to make it worth your time. You certainly have the chance to do it for round two and if you want a top school, I'd advise that given your GPA.

In terms of the gap between schools, part of it depends on what you want to do after your MBA. Some schools will position you better than others and it's not always directly correlated with the ranking.

jz4analytics · Answer

I would be interested to hear how people get a 30-50 point improvement, if they're already prepared for the first take. Right now, that looks like a massive obstacle. Part of me feels that no matter how much I study a 750 would be a stretch.

PersonalMBACoach · Answer

There are different levels of being prepared and also different ways one can be prepared. As you mention, there is an element of one's ability to get above a certain score regardless of the preparation (within reason anyway) but the test is also very systematic and predictable so there is a range that everyone has if pushed to the limit, one can score on the high end of that range. More specifically, my tutors have techniques that are used to help people answer questions quickly and more effectively. Sometimes an applicant would execute a few areas very well but struggle with a couple specific topics. Addressing the questions in a different way, with enough focus and practice, often helps them add 30-50 points to the score.

This is obviously very different for each person. Using the same methods and tricks, one applicant may see a 50 point improvement while the other just a 20 point. Its hard to give specifics when we are just talking generally. Anyone who helps with the GMAT would have to do a diagnostic to evaluate the current status before discussing any improvement plan.

Lastly, a 750 is very good so not being able to get higher than that is not a bad thing. There are plenty of people who also cannot get higher than a 750 and they get into all of the top schools! (even with less as you know).

jz4analytics · Answer

When I say "prepared" I mean understanding all of the basic math skills, question types, and the exam format and timing. Knowing how to do everything is only a small part of the battle. The GMAT will always give out of the box questions to trip people on the high level stuff. The math will be unusual, the idioms obscure. When I consider what it takes to get a 750 - at least a Q49 while missing maybe 1-3 verbal questions - it is daunting. I think you can take someone who is unprepared and coach them to a high 600 or low 700, but once you are there getting those extra points is much trickier. I think I would have to train myself to feel confident with the most abstract quant problems to consider taking it again. Because that's what it would take to get to a 740, 750, 760.

PersonalMBACoach · Answer

What did you get on the test? If you want my advice on retaking, send me some background info. Maybe for you it doesn't make sense to take it again. Scott@personalmbacoach.com

Greekmythology · Answer

Who? I got a 710 48 M 40 Verbal. Its funny but geometry and prob/comb are my math weaknesses and then verbal side its the grammar. 
Getting 2-3 points higher in verbal would skyrocket my score. I think I'll see if I get rejected outright to Columbia ED and then make a decision whether to retake the gmat or not.

I couldn't finish the Booth app in time so that's going round 2 unfortunately. Round 1- Columbia ED, Wharton, and some others. But if I don't get into Columbia or Wharton ( likely) I'll apply to Booth and Kellogg in round 2. I'm sure I would have helped myself applying in round 1 to Booth and Kellogg but it's too late now.

MBOUTDAT · Answer

Meh I thought the Manhattan GMAT prep quant was much much harder than the actual test. I got a 49Q so not elite but there weren't any questions that seemed like they were asking for something in a different language. When I took the MGMAT Advanced Book tests there were some extraordinarily difficult questions where even though I knew what section it was on I had no idea how to start. I don't think the jump from 700>mid 700's is as big as you make it out to be. Once I got my timing down I just quite a few points right there.

jz4analytics · Answer

Hmm... so a Q48/V40 is a 710 (OP) and a Q49/V42 is 750? That seems like small boosts in each section. I'd like to retake and push the score up a significant amount. I can give myself a couple months and try to prepare differently. At this point there's not much downside besides the effort and small cost.

PersonalMBACoach · Answer

I meant jz4analytics though that was answered already elsewhere. Yes I saw your score and trying to push it higher is the right approach. Good luck!

stevkang8 · Answer

I tend to agree with jz4analytics (and most people I'd imagine) on the stance, if you got a 710, going up to 720 probably wouldn't be the magic trick you're looking for. If you can go up to 750, then it might make some material difference.

I also tend to agree that, if you felt you were under prepared for the first attempt...you should definitely spend a bit more time, get ready, and redo it to have your skill levels properly reflected. However, if the first attempt was already the results of proper studying, it does seem to be stretching it a little to go from there to 750.

Either way, with the deadlines for most good schools drawing closer, if you do not think you can improve your GMAT by 30 points or more, I would highly recommend you to just apply now. Remember, with a 710, chances are you WILL get some interviews. And once you go past that stage, it is just the interview that matters. You obviously seem like a very analytical person and you know how to plan on different scales, I think delaying or even not trying will be way worse than having a 710 instead of a 750.

By the way, I think Michigan Ross is considered an elite by most people. Even Duke was ranked number 1(although very debatable) by Business Weekly. Or work on your applications first, and ask them if you can retake it and report the new score before their  decision deadline, which will be in mid December . Good luck!

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