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A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente

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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Feb 2017, 21:06
sayantanc2k wrote:
zoezhuyan wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry or other experts,
I struggled with A and B, honestly speaking, I have confused why A is correct, although I picked up A

IMO, (A) The frame was made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted.
Choice A states that the wood of frame is the same region of the picture. so i can get that wood of frame came either Germany or France.
But the fact that wood of frame was found widely in Germany does not necessary mean the picture was from Germany , and that the region of wood is Germany does not necessary mean the picture was from Germany.
It is highly possible that the wood of the frame and picture were from France, but the frame was found widely in Germany.

So how could A be assumption.

(B) Drechen is unlikely to have ever visited the home region of Birelle in France.
Even Drechen never visited France, it is also entirely possible that Drechen used the frame from France, and wood that found widely in Germany actually came from France.

So I think B is not correct.

Genuinely want you help

thanks in advance

have a nice day
>_~


Premise: Wood found in Germay is used to frame the painting.
Conclusion: The painting was made in Germany.

What you are arguing in your post is that it is not correct to conclude that the painting was made in Germany, but the question is not about whether it is right or wrong to conclude so - if someone (the author) has already concluded so (as given in the passage), then what is his / her assumption is behind that conclusion ? Option A states an assumption behind that author's conclusion, linking the premise and conclusion mentioned above (it does not matter whether the conclusion is right or wrong).

In summary: It is not required to evaluate whether a premise used to conlude something is valid. The point is if someone uses a premise to arrive at a conclusion (rightly or wrongly), then what is that person's assumption linking the premise and conclusion.


thanks sayantanc2k ,
I have not realized my mistake until your response.

Thanks so much indeed.

have a nice day
>_~
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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Feb 2017, 21:33
mikemcgarry wrote:
Dear zoezhuyan,

How are you, my friend? I'm happy to respond. :-) I see that my intelligent colleague sayantanc2k already responded, but I will add a few thoughts.

Part of what is odd about your analysis is that you don't ever mention the conclusion of the argument and seem unaware of the conclusion. The conclusion is:
... the painting is most likely the work of Drechen.
The conclusion is about the issue of who painted the painting. You are focusing too much on the frames.

The fact that the wood of the frame is plentiful in German and rare is France is used as evidence. Does this prove without a shadow of a doubt that the frame was made in Germany? Of course not. But it does make it more likely that the frame was made in Germany. Notice that the conclusion is stated in terms of likelihood, not ironclad certainty. Nothing in this argument is about establishing any point beyond all doubt.

Choice (A) links the evidence to the conclusion--it provides a bridge. That is one job of an assumption. We could also use the negation test: if the frame was NOT "made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted," then it could have come from Italy or Russia or wherever, and the composition of the frame tells us nothing about the likely artist. In other words, if we deny this, the argument collapses. That is also a telltale sign of an assumption.

Choice (B) is a weak distractor. Let's flamboyantly negate that. Suppose Drechen "visited the home region of Birelle in France" every six months of his life! Suppose Drechen had family there whom he always visited. On these frequent trips, would Drechen have brought his painting supplies? Would he have brought a frame? Would he have bought a new frame while he was there? We don't know the answers to any of these questions. Without further information, we can't tell whether this would strengthen or weaken the argument. If we negate a statement, and the effect on the argument is ambiguous, then we definitely do not have an assumption.

See:
Assumptions and the Negation Test on the GMAT

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


Thanks Mike,
I did not realized the conclusion is "most likely", I got it until you mentioned the conclusion is not ironclad certainly.

Thanks so much indeed.

have a nice day
>_~
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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Apr 2017, 22:08
pawanCEO wrote:
A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two seventeenth-century artists, either the northern German Johannes Drechen or the Frenchman Louis Birelle, who sometimes painted in the same style as Drechen. Analysis of the carved picture frame, which has been identified as the painting’s original seventeenth-century frame, showed that it is made of wood found widely in northern Germany at the time, but rare in the part of France where Birelle lived. This shows that the painting is most likely the work of Drechen.

Which of the following is an assumption that the argument requires?

(A) The frame was made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted.
(B) Drechen is unlikely to have ever visited the home region of Birelle in France.
(C) Sometimes a painting so resembles others of its era that no expert is able to confidently decide who painted it.
(D) The painter of the picture chose the frame for the picture.
(E) The carving style of the picture frame is not typical of any specific region of Europe.


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Seventeenth-Century Painting
 
Step 1: Identify the Question

The word assumption in the question stem shows that this is a Find the Assumption question.

Step 2: Deconstruct the Argument

Painting might be by D or B (B sometimes painted like D)
D = Germany, B = France
Picture frame is wood from Germany → D is the artist

There are two possible candidates for the creator of a particular painting. Based on where the picture’s frame likely came from, the author concludes that the artist came from the same location. Must it be the case that the artist and the picture frame came from the same location?

Step 3: Pause and State the Goal

On Assumption questions, the goal is to find an unstated fact that would have to be true in order for the logic of the argument to be reasonable. If this statement were false, the argument wouldn’t make logical sense.

Step 4: Work from Wrong to Right

(A) CORRECT. This must be true in order for the author’s reasoning to be sound. If the frame had instead been made from wood that originated elsewhere, the author couldn’t draw any connection between the frame’s origin and the painting’s origin.
(B) Since the painting was framed with German wood, not French, whether Drechen visited France is irrelevant. The argument already makes it clear that the painting was not framed with wood from France, regardless of who visited the area and who created the painting.
(C) This doesn’t have to be true in order for the logic of the argument to be reasonable. In fact, in order to accept the argument, it’s necessary to assume that it is possible to determine who created this particular painting with some degree of certainty.
(D) The artist didn’t necessarily have to choose the frame himself. Somebody else in the same geographic area, such as a local buyer, might have chosen the frame.
(E) It’s necessary to assume that the carving style wasn’t especially typical of France, or the argument’s reasoning would be damaged, since it would then be more likely that the frame was created in France. However, the author didn’t assume that the carving style wasn’t typical of any European region. It could have been typical of Germany, or of some other region in Europe outside of both artists’ areas, and the conclusion would still have been reasonable.
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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2017, 00:31
A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two seventeenth-century artists, either the northern German Johannes Drechen or the Frenchman Louis Birelle, who sometimes painted in the same style as Drechen. Analysis of the carved picture frame, which has been identified as the painting’s original seventeenth-century frame, showed that it is made of wood found widely in northern Germany at the time, but rare in the part of France where Birelle lived. This shows that the painting is most likely the work of Drechen.

Which of the following is an assumption that the argument requires?

(A) The frame was made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted.
(B) Drechen is unlikely to have ever visited the home region of Birelle in France.
(C) Sometimes a painting so resembles others of its era that no expert is able to confidently decide who painted it.
(D) The painter of the picture chose the frame for the picture.
(E) The carving style of the picture frame is not typical of any specific region of Europe.

My 2 cents on why D is wrong.

Although D is tempting, we have to be careful in the premise.
The premise hinges upon the location of wood, not whether it was painter or someone else.
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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 11 Jun 2017, 20:34
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A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two seventeenth-century artists, either the northern German Johannes Drechen or the Frenchman Louis Birelle, who sometimes painted in the same style as Drechen. Analysis of the carved picture frame, which has been identified as the painting’s original seventeenth-century frame, showed that it is made of wood found widely in northern Germany at the time, but rare in the part of France where Birelle lived. This shows that the painting is most likely the work of Drechen.

Which of the following is an assumption that the argument requires?

A. The frame was made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted.
B. Drechen is unlikely to have ever visited the home region of Birelle in France.
C. Sometimes a painting so resembles others of its era that no expert is able to confidently decide who painted it.
D. The painter of the picture chose the frame for the picture.
E. The carving style of the picture frame is not typical of any specific region of Europe.

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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Sep 2017, 07:55
I got this question wrong. Just thought to jot down my thoughts to have a better clarity. Was confused between A and D. Ended up marking D. :cry:

Premise: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two seventeenth-century artists, either the northern German Johannes Drechen or the Frenchman Louis Birelle, who sometimes painted in the same style as Drechen. Analysis of the carved picture frame, which has been identified as the painting’s original seventeenth-century frame, showed that it is made of wood found widely in northern Germany at the time, but rare in the part of France where Birelle lived.

Conclusion: This shows that the painting is most likely the work of Drechen.

Pre-thinking: Wood is widely found in Germany, so the assumption is Drechen was the one who did the painting. The wood cannot be easily used in France(rare in part of France). So we need to look for an option which strengthens this fact and helps in solidifying the conclusion.

Which of the following is an assumption that the argument requires?

A. The frame was made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted.
[If the wood is not local, then the conclusion will fall apart because that would mean that the wood could have been obtained from anywhere. But the conclusion hinges on the fact that it is from Germany, and so it must have been locally procured. The wood is also rarely available in France, so it cannot be locally procured. So this seems a valid assumption]

B. Drechen is unlikely to have ever visited the home region of Birelle in France.
[Even if he has, this assumption will not confirm or deny the fact that Drechen did or did not do the painting - Eliminated ]

C. Sometimes a painting so resembles others of its era that no expert is able to confidently decide who painted it.
[in the premise it is mentioned that it seems to be a work of 17th century. Also, we are not concerned if it can be confidently determined or not. We need to find the assumption behind choosing Drechen, this cannot be the assumption. in fact, this weakens it.]

D. The painter of the picture chose the frame for the picture.
[Now here is where I made a mistake. I negated this statement and assumed that someone else chose it and thought this would definitely cast a doubt when negated and marked this as the answer. Now assuming that someone chose it, it actually does not cast any doubt that Drechen did not do it. In fact, this would not even confirm that Birelle did it. Had that been the case, we could have considered the option. Since negating the statement does not completely shatter the argument we can eliminate this option. ]

E. The carving style of the picture frame is not typical of any specific region of Europe.
[Again this cannot be the assumption, because even if it is not typical it does cast a doubt that Drechen did not do it - eliminated.]
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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Dec 2017, 04:27
Although this question is not hard, the combination of the confusion of the question and the pressure of the time causes troubles to test takers.

A,B, and D are left.
B does not sound like an assumption. Ones will find the reason if they have undergone heavy practices.
D just repeats the argument, and D creates an illusion that D is the right answer; however, the correct pattern lies in A.
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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Jun 2018, 10:21
pawanCEO wrote:
A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two seventeenth-century artists, either the northern German Johannes Drechen or the Frenchman Louis Birelle, who sometimes painted in the same style as Drechen. Analysis of the carved picture frame, which has been identified as the painting’s original seventeenth-century frame, showed that it is made of wood found widely in northern Germany at the time, but rare in the part of France where Birelle lived. This shows that the painting is most likely the work of Drechen.

Which of the following is an assumption that the argument requires?

(A) The frame was made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted.
(B) Drechen is unlikely to have ever visited the home region of Birelle in France.
(C) Sometimes a painting so resembles others of its era that no expert is able to confidently decide who painted it.
(D) The painter of the picture chose the frame for the picture.
(E) The carving style of the picture frame is not typical of any specific region of Europe.

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Question Type: Assumption

Premise 1: Analysis of the picture frame, suggests that the wood from which the frame is made out of, is native to northern Germany & is rare in the part of france where Birelle lived.

Conclusion: Hence the painting is most likely the work of Drechen, who hails from northern Germany.

Analysis: For the conclusion to hold the assumption needs that either the wood from which the frame is made is not found anywhere else but Northern Germany or during 17th Century, frames were made from wood available in the local geography, where the painting was created.


(A) The frame was made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted. - Therefore the painting was made in Northern Germany & hence it is most likely that Drechen painted it. Correct
(B) Drechen is unlikely to have ever visited the home region of Birelle in France. The wood belongs to a tree from northern germany, hence the answer choice doesnt affect that fact irrespective of whether Drechen visited Brille's home region or not. Incorrect
(C) Sometimes a painting so resembles others of its era that no expert is able to confidently decide who painted it. Weakens the whole argument. Incorrect
(D) The painter of the picture chose the frame for the picture. However we cannot conclude who chose the frame. Incorrect.
(E) The carving style of the picture frame is not typical of any specific region of Europe. Weakens the whole argument. Incorrect


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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Sep 2018, 14:11
kate565 wrote:
I think that A is not the perfect answer.
Even if we negate the statement and say that "The frame was made from wood NOT local to the region where the picture was painted", there is still possibility that Drechen painted the picture in some other region. To support the conclusion we need another assumption like "Drechen didn't paint any picture outside northern Germany".


Conclusion: This shows that the painting is most likely the work of Drechen

If we negate both the statements A and D.

Quote:
(D) The painter of the picture chose the frame for the picture
The painter of the picture DID NOT chose the frame for the picture.

If painter of the picture did not choose the frame, may be someone else did. But this doesn't impact the conclusion of the argument mentioned above.
Even if someone else choose the frame, the painting could still be the work of Drechen.

Quote:
(A) The frame was made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted.
Negation: The frame was NOT made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted.

If we go by this negation and if the frame was NOT made from wood local to the region. This may mean that wood was brought from somewhere else, but not from the region where the painting was painted. Then the conclusion "This shows that the painting is most likely the work of Drechen" falls apart. As Drechen belongs to Germany, and the wood mentioned is local to Germany.
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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Sep 2018, 01:07
3
HimanshuW11 wrote:
kate565 wrote:
I think that A is not the perfect answer.
Even if we negate the statement and say that "The frame was made from wood NOT local to the region where the picture was painted", there is still possibility that Drechen painted the picture in some other region. To support the conclusion we need another assumption like "Drechen didn't paint any picture outside northern Germany".


Conclusion: Analysis of the carved picture frame, showed that it is made of wood local to Germany. This shows that the painting is most likely the work of Drechen

If we negate both the statements A and D.

Quote:
(D) The painter of the picture chose the frame for the picture
The painter of the picture DID NOT chose the frame for the picture.

If painter of the picture did not choose the frame, may be someone else did. But this doesn't impact the conclusion of the argument mentioned above.
Even if someone else choose the frame, the painting could still be the work of Drechen.

Quote:
(A) The frame was made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted.
Negation: The frame was NOT made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted.

If we go by this negation and if the frame was NOT made from wood local to the region. This may mean that wood was brought from somewhere else, but not from the region where the painting was painted. Then the conclusion "This shows that the painting is most likely the work of Drechen" falls apart. As Drechen belongs to Germany, and the wood mentioned is local to Germany.
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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Sep 2018, 09:37
A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two seventeenth-century artists, either the northern German Johannes Drechen or the Frenchman Louis Birelle, who sometimes painted in the same style as Drechen. Analysis of the carved picture frame, which has been identified as the painting’s original seventeenth-century frame, showed that it is made of wood found widely in northern Germany at the time, but rare in the part of France where Birelle lived. This shows that the painting is most likely the work of Drechen.

Which of the following is an assumption that the argument requires?

(A) The frame was made from wood local to the region where the picture was painted.

(B) Drechen is unlikely to have ever visited the home region of Birelle in France.

(C) Sometimes a painting so resembles others of its era that no expert is able to confidently decide who painted it.

(D) The painter of the picture chose the frame for the picture.

(E) The carving style of the picture frame is not typical of any specific region of Europe.

Conclusion: painting most likely Drechen's work
Premise: painting frame made of wood in found largely in Germany

Gap: Link between made of wood vs painting done related to the same place...
A says wooden frame local to region where picture was painted....again pointing to same place....connecting evidence to conclusion..
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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Nov 2018, 04:36
anujzo wrote:
Hi can anyone explain why A is stronger choice than D? As D is also a plausible assumption because if the artist did not choose a frame then Brielle could have painted the painting and someone from Germany bought it and put a German frame around it.



It doesnt matter who choose the frame.It can be painter /his wife :)/ his company.

What matters is ,the frame was local to the place he lived.
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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Nov 2018, 19:20
OG19 Q558 says answer choice B is the correct answer. Is this a printing error?
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Re: A newly discovered painting seems to be the work of one of two sevente &nbs [#permalink] 11 Nov 2018, 19:20

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