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Calling all Kellogg Fall 2011 Applicants!

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New post 07 Jan 2011, 12:54
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Folks, I graduated from Kellogg in 2008. Loved it, but in hindsight, would have also applied to HBS and Stanford. So, if you're still applying, I encourage you to do what I didn't. Don't let all the garbage around 700+GMATs influence how you pick schools. Again, I loved Kellogg - it's a great school, great people, etc, but having gone through the whole MBA process, my opinion is this: Go to the best school you possibly can. And when I say 'best school', I really mean 'best brand.'

From my experience post Kellogg, MBA brand is everything. The top 5 schools fall in one of three buckets. Bucket 1's name is "HBS." Bucket 2's name is "Stanford GBS", and Bucket 3's name is "the other top 5 schools" - i.e. Wharton/Kellogg/MIT. Let's call a spade a spade. HBS is in a league of its own. Stanford GSB is regarded as the second best business school - but it's not a close second, despite what most GSB-ers might say. Then after Stanford, you're splitting hairs with Wharton/Kellogg/MIT. I'm sure many of you disagree, but this is my unbiased, kellogg alumni perspective on sheer 'respect' the working world gives to these brands. Most MBA graduates from a top five school that work for a company with other top five MBAs will agree. Also, for all the folks that say, "yes, but if one wants to be an expert marketer, one should go to Kellogg," or "if one wants to work in private equity, one should go to Wharton."...you're all crazy. If you get in HBS, you go to HBS. If you don't and get in Stanford, you go there. If you don't get in either, but do get in Wharton/Kellogg/MIT, then you can play that "if" game.

So, apply to the best schools - even if your chances are slim. Like college - pick a 'safety,' then swing for the fences.
I applied to Kellogg, Haas, and Anderson, each R2. Picked these schools based on (1) how much I hated consulting and my ardent desire to get out, and (2) the best schools I felt confident I had a chance at. I was admitted to all three, scholarship offer to UCLA. My 'blockbuster' stats when I applied are below (kidding). I wanted to post this, since these threads influenced me when I applied, which I regret, and I never saw a post like this...which might have inspired me to apply to HBS/Stanford.

-Male, 26 years old
-3 years consulting experience (think Analysis Group, Navigant, LECG, NERA, Charles Rivers, etc). NOT the sheeshee McKinsey/Bain/BCG type.
-GMAT: 680 (Q49,V34) taken once
-GPA 3.7, BS #1 public university in US (#2 would disagree, ha)
-Decent EC, but nothing mind-blowing

Last comment: Essays are so important. Once you pass the bar with your stats (which isn't as high as these threads say - again, see mine above), then it comes down to weaving a compelling story of (a) where you've been, (b) where you wan to go, and (c) how that specific MBA program will get you there. Then you bake-in some stuff to illustrate what you'll bring to the table at the school (enriching the learning experience of others), and indirectly show that you're likely to be a big donor after (possibly by writing an essay that includes discussion of how committed you are to your undergrad school). This isn't rocket science, but people screw it up because they think stats are everything. I know a ton of people dinged at top 5 schools with 740+gmats, etc. You do too, just read these garbage threads.
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New post 07 Jan 2011, 13:02
Yep, got a name/number/email address for a local alum and instructions to complete the interview within 21 days. I think I'll contact her but request to hold off until after my HBS and Kellogg Part 2/essays are completed and submitted...hopefully she'll understand that.[/quote]

Damn. I havent gotten anything about an interview yet. I hope thats not a bad sign.[/quote]

Neither have I. When did you submit part I and where are you located? I submitted on the day of the deadline and live in the SF bay area.[/quote]


submitted day prior to deadline. reside in ohio.
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Re: Calling all Kellogg Fall 2011 Applicants!  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jan 2011, 13:17
Travelbug wrote:
Folks, I graduated from Kellogg in 2008. Loved it, but in hindsight, would have also applied to HBS and Stanford. So, if you're still applying, I encourage you to do what I didn't. Don't let all the garbage around 700+GMATs influence how you pick schools. Again, I loved Kellogg - it's a great school, great people, etc, but having gone through the whole MBA process, my opinion is this: Go to the best school you possibly can. And when I say 'best school', I really mean 'best brand.'

From my experience post Kellogg, MBA brand is everything. The top 5 schools fall in one of three buckets. Bucket 1's name is "HBS." Bucket 2's name is "Stanford GBS", and Bucket 3's name is "the other top 5 schools" - i.e. Wharton/Kellogg/MIT. Let's call a spade a spade. HBS is in a league of its own. Stanford GSB is regarded as the second best business school - but it's not a close second, despite what most GSB-ers might say. Then after Stanford, you're splitting hairs with Wharton/Kellogg/MIT. I'm sure many of you disagree, but this is my unbiased, kellogg alumni perspective on sheer 'respect' the working world gives to these brands. Most MBA graduates from a top five school that work for a company with other top five MBAs will agree. Also, for all the folks that say, "yes, but if one wants to be an expert marketer, one should go to Kellogg," or "if one wants to work in private equity, one should go to Wharton."...you're all crazy. If you get in HBS, you go to HBS. If you don't and get in Stanford, you go there. If you don't get in either, but do get in Wharton/Kellogg/MIT, then you can play that "if" game.

So, apply to the best schools - even if your chances are slim. Like college - pick a 'safety,' then swing for the fences.
I applied to Kellogg, Haas, and Anderson, each R2. Picked these schools based on (1) how much I hated consulting and my ardent desire to get out, and (2) the best schools I felt confident I had a chance at. I was admitted to all three, scholarship offer to UCLA. My 'blockbuster' stats when I applied are below (kidding). I wanted to post this, since these threads influenced me when I applied, which I regret, and I never saw a post like this...which might have inspired me to apply to HBS/Stanford.

-Male, 26 years old
-3 years consulting experience (think Analysis Group, Navigant, LECG, NERA, Charles Rivers, etc). NOT the sheeshee McKinsey/Bain/BCG type.
-GMAT: 680 (Q49,V34) taken once
-GPA 3.7, BS #1 public university in US (#2 would disagree, ha)
-Decent EC, but nothing mind-blowing

Last comment: Essays are so important. Once you pass the bar with your stats (which isn't as high as these threads say - again, see mine above), then it comes down to weaving a compelling story of (a) where you've been, (b) where you wan to go, and (c) how that specific MBA program will get you there. Then you bake-in some stuff to illustrate what you'll bring to the table at the school (enriching the learning experience of others), and indirectly show that you're likely to be a big donor after (possibly by writing an essay that includes discussion of how committed you are to your undergrad school). This isn't rocket science, but people screw it up because they think stats are everything. I know a ton of people dinged at top 5 schools with 740+gmats, etc. You do too, just read these garbage threads.


Interesting post. I agree that essays and stats are very important together in getting in. Likewise with MBA brand, but not to such an extent. Beyond getting that first dream job post-MBA, how does the "bestest ever MBA brand" help you? I believe that once you have a solid career track, which your top-tier MBA school/brand helped you to get, the rest of the career is up to you so the brand doesn't matter as much.
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Re: Calling all Kellogg Fall 2011 Applicants!  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jan 2011, 13:44
driege wrote:
mainhoon wrote:
My recommender said it asked for doublespaced...


It doesn't. Are you sure that was for Kellogg?


I agree, it doesnt...... just confirmed from my evaluator.
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Re: Calling all Kellogg Fall 2011 Applicants!  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jan 2011, 13:56
LaVerdad07 wrote:
emont wrote:
Silvers wrote:
how does it work, do they ask you to contact an alum and then you set an appropriate time that suits both of you or do they assign the date and time too??


Yep, got a name/number/email address for a local alum and instructions to complete the interview within 21 days. I think I'll contact her but request to hold off until after my HBS and Kellogg Part 2/essays are completed and submitted...hopefully she'll understand that.


Damn. I havent gotten anything about an interview yet. I hope thats not a bad sign.



I so want to finish with submitting the app and take a break from all this.. that i almost forgot abt interviews.....especially Kellogg... usually they give a waiver to international applicants who reside outside US... or is that it happens to candidates in US too. Im an international candidate and work in Philly, hope thats not too remote a location .... :)
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Re: Calling all Kellogg Fall 2011 Applicants!  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jan 2011, 17:05
Hey guys, just want to clarify: It's fine to submit Part I before you submit Part II with your essays? I'm done everything except the essays, but didn't want to submit Part I until I was completely sure that I could do so without my essays being done..


thanks for the help
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New post 07 Jan 2011, 17:08
that is correct
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New post 07 Jan 2011, 22:43
Points well taken futurestrategist. My perspective is but one data point, so take it for what you'd like. That said, when colleagues, C-level management, investors, customers, etc (I believe in Organization Behavior class at Kellogg, these were called 'stake-holders') ask where you got your MBA, and your answer is 'HBS,' you have instant credibility - more so than if you were to say Stanford/Wharton/Kellogg/MIT. I really appreciated this when I joined a leadership development program at a large healthcare company after Kellogg, and of the 4 individuals who made up the rest of the development class, 2 were from Harvard. Eyebrows of senior management raised a little bit more when they answered the question - "where'd you go to get your mba?" Now, does that mean if you went to other schools, you won't be successful? Of course not. But, that value that's established instantly when one says 'HBS' or 'Stanford' continues far beyond your first job post-MBA. Sure, one garners credibility when one says "Kellogg" or "MIT Sloan", "Wharton", etc, but not like if one said "HBS" or "Stanford." Is that fair or reasonable, given how hard it is to get in any of these schools? No, but fairness is reasonableness are irrelevant. The reality is, everyone in the business world knows the brand "HBS." They know it because it has been regarded as the best business school in the nation for most of their lives. Sure, they likely will recognize "Kellogg", only insomuch as it's a top 10 or so school, and not HBS.

Listen, I'm certainly not bashing the Kellogg brand. I wear it proudly. My fondest memories were forged at Kellogg, and some of my closest friendships were established there. All I wanted to do was try to inspire folks on this thread who otherwise may not have applied to HBS or Stanford because they had a sub 700 GMAT, to actually do so. If they do, don't get in, and end up matriculating at Kellogg or some other top 10 school - that's an incredible accomplishment, and something he/she should feel great about. I just remember sitting at my desk when I was 25 and applying, saying "I only have so much time and so many resources. I can't apply to more than 3 schools given my work demands, and expect to have persuasive, non-formulaic essays. Therefore, I've got to pick 3 schools, and so help me god, I have to get out of this garbage consulting. Therefore, which 3 do I think I have a shot at given my 680 gmat, 2.5 years of work experience, etc...? Well, according to research (including threads like this), I shouldn't waste my time and resources on applying to schools like Harvard and Stanford, where my probability of getting in doesn't warrant the opportunity cost of applying somewhere where that probability is higher." I just wish I had given it a shot - and I hope those in the same position do also. Nothing to lose, so long as you pick a safety you'd be happy with.

If you do go to Kellogg, the 'Keg' on Tuesday nights is ridiculous. I suggest warming the night up with a few $4 pitchers, then transition to in-bar beer pong, then close out the night with cheesy tots at burger king with about 90 of your closest friends.
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Re: Calling all Kellogg Fall 2011 Applicants!  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jan 2011, 02:17
Travelbug wrote:
Points well taken futurestrategist. My perspective is but one data point, so take it for what you'd like. That said, when colleagues, C-level management, investors, customers, etc (I believe in Organization Behavior class at Kellogg, these were called 'stake-holders') ask where you got your MBA, and your answer is 'HBS,' you have instant credibility - more so than if you were to say Stanford/Wharton/Kellogg/MIT. I really appreciated this when I joined a leadership development program at a large healthcare company after Kellogg, and of the 4 individuals who made up the rest of the development class, 2 were from Harvard. Eyebrows of senior management raised a little bit more when they answered the question - "where'd you go to get your mba?" Now, does that mean if you went to other schools, you won't be successful? Of course not. But, that value that's established instantly when one says 'HBS' or 'Stanford' continues far beyond your first job post-MBA. Sure, one garners credibility when one says "Kellogg" or "MIT Sloan", "Wharton", etc, but not like if one said "HBS" or "Stanford." Is that fair or reasonable, given how hard it is to get in any of these schools? No, but fairness is reasonableness are irrelevant. The reality is, everyone in the business world knows the brand "HBS." They know it because it has been regarded as the best business school in the nation for most of their lives. Sure, they likely will recognize "Kellogg", only insomuch as it's a top 10 or so school, and not HBS.

Listen, I'm certainly not bashing the Kellogg brand. I wear it proudly. My fondest memories were forged at Kellogg, and some of my closest friendships were established there. All I wanted to do was try to inspire folks on this thread who otherwise may not have applied to HBS or Stanford because they had a sub 700 GMAT, to actually do so. If they do, don't get in, and end up matriculating at Kellogg or some other top 10 school - that's an incredible accomplishment, and something he/she should feel great about. I just remember sitting at my desk when I was 25 and applying, saying "I only have so much time and so many resources. I can't apply to more than 3 schools given my work demands, and expect to have persuasive, non-formulaic essays. Therefore, I've got to pick 3 schools, and so help me god, I have to get out of this garbage consulting. Therefore, which 3 do I think I have a shot at given my 680 gmat, 2.5 years of work experience, etc...? Well, according to research (including threads like this), I shouldn't waste my time and resources on applying to schools like Harvard and Stanford, where my probability of getting in doesn't warrant the opportunity cost of applying somewhere where that probability is higher." I just wish I had given it a shot - and I hope those in the same position do also. Nothing to lose, so long as you pick a safety you'd be happy with.

If you do go to Kellogg, the 'Keg' on Tuesday nights is ridiculous. I suggest warming the night up with a few $4 pitchers, then transition to in-bar beer pong, then close out the night with cheesy tots at burger king with about 90 of your closest friends.


I think you make a good point. I never quite understood this school good at X vs Y. At least within the top 5. And HBS is perhaps a league to its own. Plus its once in a lifetime, so might as well get the best education you can possibly get.
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Re: Calling all Kellogg Fall 2011 Applicants!  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jan 2011, 07:39
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I would never try to persuade anyone from applying for any school they want since in reality you can only do it once. However, you need to remember that things change year to year and people who easily could get into HBS in year X may not now. Application volume is way up at most schools and yield has improved too. I suggest apply to any school you want to attend since you dont want to live with what if's...especially if you have a dream of doing something like PE or HF.

For example at Kellogg this is how things have changed over the last 4 years.
Kellogg Classes of: 2008 / 2012
Total Number of Applicants: 4,526 / 5,826
Avg. GMAT: 703 / 714
Applicants with <700 GMATs: 38% / 35%
Enrolled Students with <700 GMATs: 41% / 26%

http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/admissions/images/FactsFigures_06.pdf
http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/Programs/FullTimeMBA/Applying/~/media/Files/FTMBA/FTMBA_FactsFigures-2010.ashx


As for the eyebrow raising factor of senior management with brands it is definitely true that HBS will impress far more than almost any other school. Remember most of these people are in their 50s-60s. Their generation people went to b-school at an earlier age, almost everyone had less than 2 years experience and the vast majority had no work experience. So you are looking at people who did their MBA's in the mid 70s to the early 80s. Back then HBS was far and away the greatest school and there were far fewer legitimate alternatives. Wharton, Tuck, etc. were great programs but far fewer people were getting MBA's and it was no where near as comptetive as it is now. Many people who got their MBA's from HBS in 1975 wouldn't even be interviewed today. The growth of MBA programs and the number of schools offering them has been explosive, as have the number of people what want them. Just think Yale didn't even start their MBA program until the mid to late 1970s and many schools have doubled or tripled the size of their fulltime programs.

It will be interesting to see how programs stack up in 20 years, there seems to have been a greater leveling of the playing field. Heck you may see schools like John Hopkins moving up to big name status, and maybe some big name schools like Princeton will be offering MBA's (they do add to the prestige of universities). Also, I think senior managers then will have far different views of various MBA's than the current regimes. I dont see the same sense awe from younger people as I do from the old guard when it comes to HBS...heck some people our age have down right negative opinions of the school.
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Re: Calling all Kellogg Fall 2011 Applicants!  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jan 2011, 08:52
RR, well said. You do it only ONCE.
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New post Updated on: 09 Jan 2011, 13:01
I'm going to start a Kellogg waitlisters thread, in case anyone's interested. It's at: calling-all-kellogg-fall-2011-waitlists-107547.html

Originally posted by ANTMBA on 08 Jan 2011, 12:25.
Last edited by ANTMBA on 09 Jan 2011, 13:01, edited 1 time in total.
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New post 08 Jan 2011, 12:33
Roll Call Updated R2
39 Applicants (+19)

R1 information
(12-20-10 notification deadline with acceptances sent out starting 12-6-10, dings starting the week after, and W/L on 12-16-10)
204 R1 Applicants
66 Admits (32%)
57 Dings
38 W/L

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AvIY3hh7tYG1dHhxbTBQUFMwdElMZGJiUkdzaWhkckE&hl=en&authkey=CL6k9LIF
Click to view. I removed editing privileges.

Good luck to all R2 applicants!
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New post 08 Jan 2011, 12:48
Hi guys, I am a R2 applicant, still doing final touches on my Part II app; I submitted Part I a month ago for off-campus interview and I just got my interview invite yesterday.

The adcom wants the interview done within 3 weeks of receiving the email. I am going to be out of the country for the next 3 weeks for work (meetings/workshops with client, really can't be changed at this point), so I plan to contact adcom to see if the interview can be changed to later. Did anyone else have a similar experience? What's the adcom's usual response to this situation? Thanx
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New post 08 Jan 2011, 13:22
Does anyone know if Kellogg is strict with the word limits? My essays are 10-15 words over the limit, and I was wondering if I should spent time getting them under the limit,
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New post 08 Jan 2011, 14:01
alienfluid wrote:
Does anyone know if Kellogg is strict with the word limits? My essays are 10-15 words over the limit, and I was wondering if I should spent time getting them under the limit,

You will be fine, they wont hold it against you.
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New post 08 Jan 2011, 19:28
I have a quick question on the employment history section of Part 1.

I progressed through several positions at my company (the only company I worked at since college). Do I list each of these positions separately, listing the same employer name over and over again? Or since I've only had one employer, list my latest position, starting and current salary stats etc under "Employer 1"?

I'm sure it'll be all clear when they look at my resume, but just curious how others have filled out this section.
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New post 08 Jan 2011, 20:37
losangelino wrote:
I have a quick question on the employment history section of Part 1.

I progressed through several positions at my company (the only company I worked at since college). Do I list each of these positions separately, listing the same employer name over and over again? Or since I've only had one employer, list my latest position, starting and current salary stats etc under "Employer 1"?

I'm sure it'll be all clear when they look at my resume, but just curious how others have filled out this section.


Depends...have you been in the same department/function with increasing levels of responsibility? Or have you worked in different functions in different departments? I had three positions in different departments, with different functions, for the same employer, and listed them separately. But you might not want to do that if your positions were promotions within the same department.
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New post 08 Jan 2011, 20:45
runnergirl683 wrote:
losangelino wrote:
I have a quick question on the employment history section of Part 1.

I progressed through several positions at my company (the only company I worked at since college). Do I list each of these positions separately, listing the same employer name over and over again? Or since I've only had one employer, list my latest position, starting and current salary stats etc under "Employer 1"?

I'm sure it'll be all clear when they look at my resume, but just curious how others have filled out this section.


Depends...have you been in the same department/function with increasing levels of responsibility? Or have you worked in different functions in different departments? I had three positions in different departments, with different functions, for the same employer, and listed them separately. But you might not want to do that if your positions were promotions within the same department.


Ah ok makes sense. Thanks! I'm in a similar boat, moved through 3 different departments with different functions. Although most of my salary increases came from the first, the other 2 moves are more recent (7 and 3 months respectively). My salary was flat during these 2 lateral moves. Hopefully they don't look unfavorably upon that.
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Re: Calling all Kellogg Fall 2011 Applicants!  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jan 2011, 21:19
runnergirl683 wrote:
losangelino wrote:
I have a quick question on the employment history section of Part 1.

I progressed through several positions at my company (the only company I worked at since college). Do I list each of these positions separately, listing the same employer name over and over again? Or since I've only had one employer, list my latest position, starting and current salary stats etc under "Employer 1"?

I'm sure it'll be all clear when they look at my resume, but just curious how others have filled out this section.


Depends...have you been in the same department/function with increasing levels of responsibility? Or have you worked in different functions in different departments? I had three positions in different departments, with different functions, for the same employer, and listed them separately. But you might not want to do that if your positions were promotions within the same department.


I had promotions within the same departments and I listed them separately. I basically followed the same structure as my resume.
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