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jbark55
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 02 Jan 2011, 23:27
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Well that's helpful, i am pretty pumped actually about recruiting command in a weird way - 1) save more cash, 2) get married, 3) get the full GI bill. I would do it if I knew that UCLA or MIT would defer for me. How would you go about getting a deferment locked in without somehow influencing the admissions people? Is this something that you would ask at the interview? How would one go about asking this question "anonymously?" I have heard of people getting called up from IRR halfway through the program and then joining a later class, but not deferments.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 03 Jan 2011, 08:52
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Well, as it turns out UCLA doesn't appear to be as generous with the deferrals as I thought they'd be:
https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/x19595.xml#17
https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/x6448.xml

No deferrals except for illness or disability, it looks like.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 03 Jan 2011, 09:51
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having difficulty getting released from active duty. hrc non-concurs with REFRAD on the basis of a nov 6 email stating i am slated for recruiting command. interviewing at MIT in two days, interviewed at UCLA already. deferments are not an option at top programs, right? anyone have a way around this mess? don't really want to serve the full 8 active duty and end up a 31 year old applicant (I know, worse things have happened). Need some perspective.
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An email isn't official orders. That's a crap reason for retention. You should be able to fight that. Here's what I wrote on the Othe military thread:

That sucks something awful. I was concerned my branch wouldn't let me out due to some ambiguity in my contract, but I've gotten my resignation approved. I was concerned about it, and did a ton of research on how the Marine process worked. PM me if you want some of those details. I can't give you too much help on the specifics because I don't know where your letter got stopped. I had to break out a couple of references in a couple of orders to get my letter past base admin. Headquarters didn't give me any problems.

Haas, Sloan, and Anderson are supposedly "military friendly" per https://www.mba.com/mba/WhyBSchool/Milit ... chools.htm, which includes a commitment to provide a one year deferment for involuntary extensions. I can't vouch for how current this is, but it's something. I'm assuming you got two year orders to recruiting command. This gets you halfway there and a basis to request two years.

In general, the first thing I'd do is get accepted. Don't ask for a deferment until you're positive you've exhausted all your options and keep as many schools open as you can afford. Once you're positive you've done everything you can do, including consulting base legal if your commitment is actually up and you're being involuntarily extended on active duty, then I'd ask for a deferment. I think asking for a deferment immediately upon acceptance makes it seem like you weren't honestly expecting to enroll that year.

Assuming you can't get out, I'd get the highest ranking person I could to sign a letter to each school to which you were accepted basically saying that you were involuntarily extended past your original EAS due to the needs of your service and that he'd advise the school to grant a deferment because of your general amazingness. Assuming one accepts, you're good. Otherwise, you might be stuck.

The only other thing I'll say is that some admin types don't know their head from a hole in the ground. If you come armed with references, it becomes hard for them to say no, because they can't back up arguments with anything other than a standard "this is how things are done." Don't let some E-3 ruin your chances at business school.

Good luck

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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! Updated on: 03 Jan 2011, 10:09
Originally posted by piggles on 03 Jan 2011, 09:57.
Last edited by piggles on 03 Jan 2011, 10:09, edited 1 time in total.
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jbark55
having difficulty getting released from active duty. hrc non-concurs with REFRAD on the basis of a nov 6 email stating i am slated for recruiting command. interviewing at MIT in two days, interviewed at UCLA already. deferments are not an option at top programs, right? anyone have a way around this mess? don't really want to serve the full 8 active duty and end up a 31 year old applicant (I know, worse things have happened). Need some perspective.

An email isn't official orders. That's a crap reason for retention. You should be able to fight that. Here's what I wrote on the on the other military thread:

That sucks something awful. I was concerned my branch wouldn't let me out due to some ambiguity in my contract, but I've gotten my resignation approved. I was concerned about it, and did a ton of research on how the Marine process worked. PM me if you want some of those details. I can't give you too much help on the specifics because I don't know where your letter got stopped. I had to break out a couple of references in a couple of orders to get my letter past base admin. Headquarters didn't give me any problems.

Haas, Sloan, and Anderson are supposedly "military friendly" per https://www.mba.com/mba/WhyBSchool/Milit ... chools.htm, which includes a commitment to provide a one year deferment for involuntary extensions. I can't vouch for how current this is, but it's something. I'm assuming you got two year orders to recruiting command. This gets you halfway there and a basis to request two years.

In general, the first thing I'd do is get accepted. Don't ask for a deferment until you're positive you've exhausted all your options and keep as many schools open as you can afford. Once you're positive you've done everything you can do, including consulting base legal if your commitment is actually up and you're being involuntarily extended on active duty, then I'd ask for a deferment. I think asking for a deferment immediately upon acceptance makes it seem like you weren't honestly expecting to enroll that year.

Assuming you can't get out, I'd get the highest ranking person I could to sign a letter to each school to which you were accepted basically saying that you were involuntarily extended past your original EAS due to the needs of your service and that he'd advise the school to grant a deferment because of your general amazingness. Assuming one accepts, you're good. Otherwise, you might be stuck.

The only other thing I'll say is that some admin types don't know their head from a hole in the ground. If you come armed with references, it becomes hard for them to say no, because they can't back up arguments with anything other than a standard "this is how things are done." Don't let some E-3 ruin your chances at business school.

Good luck

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Sorry about the double there.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 03 Jan 2011, 10:02
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i definitely agree with piggles, fight this, its bullshit

i got orders for MCCC (Captain Career Course) which would have extended me beyond my committment, i cancelled those, they cannot force you to take on an ADSO

send them a respectfuly but stern email and if you show you know what you are talking about they will back down

recruiting command may seem good but it also be very stressful meeting quotas, dealing with AWOL joes, and overwight recruiting ncos etc

if i were you id fight it, better to take control, do what you want, you served your time now put yourself first for once or the army will take you for every cent they can
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 03 Jan 2011, 13:18
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i definitely agree with piggles, fight this, its bullshit

i got orders for MCCC (Captain Career Course) which would have extended me beyond my committment, i cancelled those, they cannot force you to take on an ADSO

send them a respectfuly but stern email and if you show you know what you are talking about they will back down

recruiting command may seem good but it also be very stressful meeting quotas, dealing with AWOL joes, and overwight recruiting ncos etc

if i were you id fight it, better to take control, do what you want, you served your time now put yourself first for once or the army will take you for every cent they can
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I've heard the same about recruiting command. My first CO and another close fried spent time in recruiting command, and they told me it was the most demanding job they ever had. Apparently, there's an unlimited amount of work that can never be completed--to the point where there are official meetings during the Marine Corps' Birthday Ball each year.

The monitor tried to push orders on me last Summer to extend past my EAS by about a year. I called his bluff and refused to accept them. I knew my EAS and the Marine Corps orders and I won the fight--even though I had to get my XO involved. Don't let the military dictate your plans past what you committed for unless you really want to do so. You put in your time and served honorably, there's no reason to accept a service related guilt trip.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 04 Jan 2011, 21:07
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transition planning reminder:
Yes, active duty service members (including Reservists on active orders) who are eligible for Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits really do get 100% of their tuition and fees paid, period. There are no maximums, and you still get 100% even at the graduate level or in the more expensive programs, like nursing. However, you do not get a housing stipend or a book stipend.

If you separate from active-duty service during a semester, you will receive full tuition benefits for the entire semester, and you will become eligible for housing and book benefits starting the day after your separation date. Be sure to send the Member 4 copy of your DD-214 directly to the VA processing center in St. Louis, MO (1-888-442-4551) as soon as you receive it, so that they can begin processing your additional benefits.


Best of luck, im headed to MIT Friday for interview, pretty excited/anxious but ready to get it done

take care everyone
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 06 Jan 2011, 07:23
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Here's some info on new changes to the GI Bill:

https://www.gibill.va.gov/post-911/post- ... anges.html

"The Post-9/11 GI Bill will now pay all public school tuition and fees; this includes graduate training, etc.
For students attending private institutions of higher learning or foreign schools, the tuition and fee reimbursement is capped at the lesser of net out-of-pocket cost or $17,500 annually - however the Yellow Ribbon Program still exists"

https://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/01/m ... s-010411w/

"In place of state caps, the new law creates a single, nationwide cap of $17,500 a year for tuition and fee reimbursement, a level that could result in some students attending private colleges — whose full costs are covered now — paying out of pocket next fall."

Sounds like good news for 100% benefits public school folks and bad news for those going to private school. I guess we'll see how it all works out.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 06 Jan 2011, 07:30
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Here's some info on new changes to the GI Bill:

https://www.gibill.va.gov/post-911/post- ... anges.html

"The Post-9/11 GI Bill will now pay all public school tuition and fees; this includes graduate training, etc.
For students attending private institutions of higher learning or foreign schools, the tuition and fee reimbursement is capped at the lesser of net out-of-pocket cost or $17,500 annually - however the Yellow Ribbon Program still exists"

https://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/01/m ... s-010411w/

"In place of state caps, the new law creates a single, nationwide cap of $17,500 a year for tuition and fee reimbursement, a level that could result in some students attending private colleges — whose full costs are covered now — paying out of pocket next fall."

Sounds like good news for 100% benefits public school folks and bad news for those going to private school. I guess we'll see how it all works out.
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It depends on the state and what the previous $/credit hour amount was. If you're planning on going to a private school in CA, for instance, this change is good because CA only paid about $300 per credit hour previously. For a state like TX which paid about $1500 per credit hour, this change will probably cost you money.

It's a little disappointing to see that $17.5K number is supposed to cover fees, but I'm still looking at this as a way for me to have to borrow about $30K less than my future civilian classmates. As of three or four years ago our options were the MGIB or nothing, so the post-9/11 GI Bill is a big win, especially if you qualify for Yellow Ribbon.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 06 Jan 2011, 07:40
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For private school, it will depend on the state. But for public schools, this is good or neutral news since you can't possibly lose money under the new arrangement.

I wonder if this is due to the prevalence of for-profit institutions with questionable academics that a lot of the enlisted folks are flocking towards. Maybe the VA is trying to encourage people to attend more legitimate state institutions instead of for-profit diploma mills? Just a thought.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 06 Jan 2011, 08:31
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For private school, it will depend on the state. But for public schools, this is good or neutral news since you can't possibly lose money under the new arrangement.

I wonder if this is due to the prevalence of for-profit institutions with questionable academics that a lot of the enlisted folks are flocking towards. Maybe the VA is trying to encourage people to attend more legitimate state institutions instead of for-profit diploma mills? Just a thought.
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I agree that it's in response to the for-profit schools. They get the vast majority of their revenue from the federal government in the form of GI Bill money, grants, and loans while not giving out a quality education. That said, I hear great things about the University of Phoenix MBA program. Big money there...
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 06 Jan 2011, 08:57
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Interesting article in The Atlantic about Officer retention. The author is a former Air Force Officer who conducted an unscientific poll of academy graduates through their class scribes. Highlights include: 82% of resignations were due to frustrations with the military bureacracy. The promotion, retention, and assignment policies certainly didn't add any incentive for me to stay in. Of course, neither does this absurd brief I sit through each morning or the four places I brief the same information.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ing/8346/#
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 06 Jan 2011, 18:07
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Nice article, just finished reading it. One of the main points that the rigidity of the personnel system and how it's mostly non-merit based, seems so logical but is something that would be extremely difficult to change at this point. Remember when some federal employees had the opportunity to switch to partially performance based pay? That didn't work out too well. Just from my anecdotal experience, most of the junior officers staying in were doing so because they still felt like they were making a difference (small number) or because they felt all the fringe benefits were worth putting up with everything the article mentions.

In this sense, the recruiting process in business school is eye-opening. It's stressful to not know exactly what the outcome might be, but empowering to have so much more control over the process.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 08 Jan 2011, 22:33
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Folks,

Hope everyone had a good Holiday season. Round 2 is coming to a close.

Submitted Wharton and HBS is due in two days. Hoping my story carries me beyond my 2.88 GPA.

I will keep you posted. Good Luck.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 09 Jan 2011, 06:55
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From the VA Website this morning:

"The Post-9/11 GI GBill will now pay all public school in-state tuition and fees; this includes graduate training, etc."

"in-state" was just added. Doh!


https://www.gibill2.va.gov/cgi-bin/vba. ... _topview=1
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 09 Jan 2011, 12:21
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From the VA Website this morning:

"The Post-9/11 GI GBill will now pay all public school in-state tuition and fees; this includes graduate training, etc."

"in-state" was just added. Doh!


https://www.gibill2.va.gov/cgi-bin/vba. ... _topview=1
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For what its worth, McCombs told me they'd give military students an in-state waiver if I signed a letter saying I intended to become a Texas resident. They also said the residency only needed to be maintained through the end of school. If you moved out of state, it wouldn't matter.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 10 Jan 2011, 15:03
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Additional info on the Post 9/11 GI Bill follows.

My question to the VA on their website:

"I noticed the change on the Post 9-11 site today stating in effect that the Post 9-11 benefits will now cover full tuition and fees for an in-state public university student even for graduate programs. I've been admitted to the University of Texas' MBA program, which costs about $15000 per semester (30K/year). The undergrad program costs about 15K/year. I will now get the full tuition for the graduate program and the old numbers are invalid, correct? Also, I've already taken the GMAT. Can I apply for reimbursement of the testing fee?"

The VA's response:

"This is a misinterpretation. Based on the information we have received the maximum tuition and fees payable is still based off the undergraduate programs.

To apply for reimbursement of the GMAT please complete a VA Form 22-0810 reimbursement for national exams. You may find this form at our website www.gibill.va.gov.

I read it as covering any public school tuition/fees, but apparently we are still limited to undergrad numbers. I guess it was wishful thinking on my part.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 10 Jan 2011, 15:14
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I read it that way too. Hmm. This is going to be more expensive than I thought it would be.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 12 Jan 2011, 09:05
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anybody got a ballpark on waitlist R1 odds at ucla anderson? that's the boat i'm in.....
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 12 Jan 2011, 10:32
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anybody got a ballpark on waitlist R1 odds at ucla anderson? that's the boat i'm in.....
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Well, at least one slot will open up for someone since I'll be turning down my Anderson acceptance in favor of Haas.

Early results seem to indicate that schools are becoming more military-friendly than in years past--I know HBS has made several public statements about wanting more military and fewer PE/IB/consulting types. My profile is far from spectacular by Haas standards but they offered me a pretty nice scholarship package, and I heard from another Marine who got the same thing. So it's looking like they're giving some extra credit for service.
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