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Rotman vs. Schulich vs. Desautels (McGill)

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Desautels (McGill) vs. Rotman vs. Schulich

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Rotman vs. Schulich vs. Desautels (McGill) [#permalink]

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New post 15 Feb 2017, 15:23
Although I only got accepted to Schulich at the moment, I am posting this now because I have to make a quick decision once I hear back from McGill and Rotman due to a fast approaching decision deadline of the offer from Schulich.

If I was going for finance, Rotman would be no brainer but since I am not, this is a little more tricky (I would like to continue my career in general management). I am also married with one child, so the cost of living factors in heavily for me.

Rotman
- Best brand name, especially in Toronto
- Downtown Toronto location, the business hub of Canada
- Large class size (about 400). Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
- Heavy focus on finance, which is not a good thing for me.
- High cost of living, especially for a family with young child (daycare cost in Toronto is through the roof!)
- I would most likely have to commute since the rent is too expensive in downtown. Expecting around 40 min commute each way (I will most likely end up in the far end of green line)

Schulich
- Located in Toronto, although it is a bit far away from the business district
- Good brand name in Toronto. However, I am worried about the disappearance from FT ranking.
- Large class size (about 500). Again, is this good or bad?
- More diversity in fields of placement than Rotman
- High cost of living just like Rotman
- Shorter commute and better quality housing as rent is slightly cheaper in nearby areas (I am staying away from Jane & Finch, however).

Desautels (McGill)
- Internationally recognized brand name. However, the brand has more to do with the school as a whole rather than its MBA program. Most people say "McGill MBA" rather than "Desautels MBA."
- Lower cost of tuition
- Much cheaper cost of living (daycare is capped at $7.50 / day)
- Much better quality housing than Toronto (I can get a good quality 3 bedroom for cheaper in Montreal than small 2 bedroom in Toronto)
- Small class size (about 70). Again, is this good or bad?
- Concerned about job placement as I do not speak French, which means getting a job in Montreal is nearly impossible. McGill places reasonably well in Toronto, but I'd imagine doing an MBA in Toronto would make it much easier to get a job there.



I think I will choose Rotman over Schulich if I get accepted there. Rotman vs. McGill is a tough choice for me... I am leaning towards McGill over Schulich (again if I get accepted).

Any inputs would be appreciated!
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Re: Rotman vs. Schulich vs. Desautels (McGill) [#permalink]

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New post 21 Feb 2017, 18:39
Bumping this up as I got accepted at Desautels.
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Rotman vs. Schulich vs. Desautels (McGill) [#permalink]

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New post 21 Feb 2017, 21:14
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Rookie84 wrote:
Although I only got accepted to Schulich at the moment, I am posting this now because I have to make a quick decision once I hear back from McGill and Rotman due to a fast approaching decision deadline of the offer from Schulich.

If I was going for finance, Rotman would be no brainer but since I am not, this is a little more tricky (I would like to continue my career in general management). I am also married with one child, so the cost of living factors in heavily for me.

Rotman
- Best brand name, especially in Toronto
- Downtown Toronto location, the business hub of Canada
- Large class size (about 400). Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
- Heavy focus on finance, which is not a good thing for me.
- High cost of living, especially for a family with young child (daycare cost in Toronto is through the roof!)
- I would most likely have to commute since the rent is too expensive in downtown. Expecting around 40 min commute each way (I will most likely end up in the far end of green line)

Schulich
- Located in Toronto, although it is a bit far away from the business district
- Good brand name in Toronto. However, I am worried about the disappearance from FT ranking.
- Large class size (about 500). Again, is this good or bad?
- More diversity in fields of placement than Rotman
- High cost of living just like Rotman
- Shorter commute and better quality housing as rent is slightly cheaper in nearby areas (I am staying away from Jane & Finch, however).

Desautels (McGill)
- Internationally recognized brand name. However, the brand has more to do with the school as a whole rather than its MBA program. Most people say "McGill MBA" rather than "Desautels MBA."
- Lower cost of tuition
- Much cheaper cost of living (daycare is capped at $7.50 / day)
- Much better quality housing than Toronto (I can get a good quality 3 bedroom for cheaper in Montreal than small 2 bedroom in Toronto)
- Small class size (about 70). Again, is this good or bad?
- Concerned about job placement as I do not speak French, which means getting a job in Montreal is nearly impossible. McGill places reasonably well in Toronto, but I'd imagine doing an MBA in Toronto would make it much easier to get a job there.



I think I will choose Rotman over Schulich if I get accepted there. Rotman vs. McGill is a tough choice for me... I am leaning towards McGill over Schulich (again if I get accepted).

Any inputs would be appreciated!



I had a similar dilemma with McGill vs. Rotman. I think you summed up the pros and cons very well, at least, they are very similar to the lists I made for myself.

Currently I am leaning towards McGill, even as someone who is in Finance, because of the smaller class size/community and they offered me really good funding. I didn't look at Schulich so I don't have much to add there, though it did seem that Ivey, Rotman, Queens and Mcgill are generally considered the top Canadian programs.

Are you Canadian? Do you know what kind of industries/employers you are interested in apart from just general management? In making my decision, I spoke to some employers about their recruiting and how they saw the different schools. McGill also connected me with some of their recent alumni (2/3 took jobs in Toronto) who were in the areas I was interested in, and their perspectives were very useful to me. McGill career services staff were also willing to talk to me before I joined, which was not the case at Rotman. This was what I liked most about McGill, the community seemed very strong (just walk around the MBA part of the business building and everyone, staff and students, knows each other and what they are all doing) and they were very interested in helping me. Rotman the community also seems strong (I visited as well), and alumni I met were quite happy with it, but it's definitely not as close-knit as McGill (there are advantages and disadvantages to this depending on what you are looking for).

I think this point is also well made by the Bloomberg BusinessWeek rankings... Rotman places higher because it does better on the "reputation" criteria (they ask recruiters to rank programs). Nevertheless, McGill does much better than Rotman on the alumni and current student rankings, which corresponds with my recruiting experience where McGill was more helpful and more personalized. The larger employers I talked to seemed to have a slight preference for Rotman (this was in Finance), but they all said they also actively recruited at McGill, and at the end of the day they are both good schools/it's going to be way more up to you what you do personally than any difference between those two schools.

If it's worth anything to you, Rotman also has the best b-school faculty in Canada probably (which they pay a fortune in salaries for, it's no wonder they need so many students). I'm not convinced the marginal benefit is that high for students though, given that the McGill faculty is by no means weak, and in my experience top class researchers don't necessarily make top class teachers... though they do enhance the reputation of the school to outsiders. One current McGill student I spoke to, who went to a very good American school for UG, said they were very happy with faculty/classes at McGill (Rotman students I met felt the same).

I hear that the speaking French part for Montreal really depends on what industry/function you are going for. Some industries you will be fine with English, or at least, they would like you to learn French as well, but they will hire you with just English no problem. Others you NEED to speak French (general management seems like it would fall more on the French side?).

On location, if you want to work in Toronto there is an undoubted benefit to living there. Nevertheless, the alumni I met thought that it is by no means an insurmountable challenge (obv they and their classmates surmounted it), and noted that McGill does have strong ties into particular Toronto circles. The school plans some trips to Toronto, and if you are proactive (which you should be regardless of your program/location), you shouldn't have too much trouble making connections in Toronto. Also, while I like Toronto a lot (I worked a summer there in UG), Montreal is a truly unique and great city - great food, great culture, great prices, lots of fun.

Sorry for the incredibly long and rambling answer, but it's been a tiring work day and I don't feel like editing myself ;). Hopefully this is in anyway helpful to you....
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New post 22 Feb 2017, 02:02
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Hi Rookie84,
First of all congratulations on getting admitted in Schulich and McGill. Why didn't you try Ivey? I would like to know if thats ok! seems from your line of questioning that Ivey could've been best for you.

Moving on, you cannot go wrong with either. While comparing Rotman, Schulich & Desautels we are pointing our granular differences. It ultimately boils down to your MBA goals and which school better suits your needs. You definitely have laid out the pros and cons nicely. I would recommend assigning weight to all the point and calculating which school comes up top.

Short answer is : ROTMAN

Long answer:
Rotman +ve : Location: downtown toronto. (where you'll work most likely)

-ve: Class Size: Big class size means less resources per student. And obviously not a close knit class.

Schulich +ve: Location: Better than Montreal. Also may work for you since you're looking for cheaper accommodation.

-ve: Class Size: Again Big size.
Diversity: I'm not sure which ethnicity you belong to. But being an Indian in Schulich feels like you're pursuing an MBA in India.

Desautels +ve: Class Size: Very Small. I weigh this very highly. And it matters.

-ve Location: Job opportunities are less in Montreal as compared to Toronto.
Language: French will be an issue.

I would not rate schools on which is a Finance or a Consulting school. Since you're going for general management all schools are at par.
Regarding cost of living I would recommend looking at their websites. I have found that the figures are mostly accurate.
Overall, I would recommend you look to your learning goals and not fixate too much on job search. If you put in a necessary hardwork you will secure a job period. But the learning experience will be vastly different based on which city you're in, are you doing case based approach or not (I highly recommend) and so on.
Hope this helps. Please let me know what you decide.
Cheers.
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Re: Rotman vs. Schulich vs. Desautels (McGill) [#permalink]

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New post 22 Feb 2017, 10:17
backbacon wrote:
I had a similar dilemma with McGill vs. Rotman. I think you summed up the pros and cons very well, at least, they are very similar to the lists I made for myself.

Currently I am leaning towards McGill, even as someone who is in Finance, because of the smaller class size/community and they offered me really good funding. I didn't look at Schulich so I don't have much to add there, though it did seem that Ivey, Rotman, Queens and Mcgill are generally considered the top Canadian programs.

Are you Canadian? Do you know what kind of industries/employers you are interested in apart from just general management? In making my decision, I spoke to some employers about their recruiting and how they saw the different schools. McGill also connected me with some of their recent alumni (2/3 took jobs in Toronto) who were in the areas I was interested in, and their perspectives were very useful to me. McGill career services staff were also willing to talk to me before I joined, which was not the case at Rotman. This was what I liked most about McGill, the community seemed very strong (just walk around the MBA part of the business building and everyone, staff and students, knows each other and what they are all doing) and they were very interested in helping me. Rotman the community also seems strong (I visited as well), and alumni I met were quite happy with it, but it's definitely not as close-knit as McGill (there are advantages and disadvantages to this depending on what you are looking for).

I think this point is also well made by the Bloomberg BusinessWeek rankings... Rotman places higher because it does better on the "reputation" criteria (they ask recruiters to rank programs). Nevertheless, McGill does much better than Rotman on the alumni and current student rankings, which corresponds with my recruiting experience where McGill was more helpful and more personalized. The larger employers I talked to seemed to have a slight preference for Rotman (this was in Finance), but they all said they also actively recruited at McGill, and at the end of the day they are both good schools/it's going to be way more up to you what you do personally than any difference between those two schools.

If it's worth anything to you, Rotman also has the best b-school faculty in Canada probably (which they pay a fortune in salaries for, it's no wonder they need so many students). I'm not convinced the marginal benefit is that high for students though, given that the McGill faculty is by no means weak, and in my experience top class researchers don't necessarily make top class teachers... though they do enhance the reputation of the school to outsiders. One current McGill student I spoke to, who went to a very good American school for UG, said they were very happy with faculty/classes at McGill (Rotman students I met felt the same).

I hear that the speaking French part for Montreal really depends on what industry/function you are going for. Some industries you will be fine with English, or at least, they would like you to learn French as well, but they will hire you with just English no problem. Others you NEED to speak French (general management seems like it would fall more on the French side?).

On location, if you want to work in Toronto there is an undoubted benefit to living there. Nevertheless, the alumni I met thought that it is by no means an insurmountable challenge (obv they and their classmates surmounted it), and noted that McGill does have strong ties into particular Toronto circles. The school plans some trips to Toronto, and if you are proactive (which you should be regardless of your program/location), you shouldn't have too much trouble making connections in Toronto. Also, while I like Toronto a lot (I worked a summer there in UG), Montreal is a truly unique and great city - great food, great culture, great prices, lots of fun.

Sorry for the incredibly long and rambling answer, but it's been a tiring work day and I don't feel like editing myself ;). Hopefully this is in anyway helpful to you....


Thank you for taking your time to type all of that and for your great perspectives.

No, I am not Canadian. I get to learn all about Canada when I start my MBA this year! :D

I definitely agree that McGill's tight knit community is one of its strongest points. I e-mailed student ambassadors from all 3 schools I applied to, and only ones that got back to me were from McGill. I chatted with two current students and they were both very much willing to help, spending about 30 minutes on a call with a stranger just because I was applying to McGill. Their admissions team is awesome and so helpful as well. I didn't talk to career services yet but judging from what you say, it sounds like they would probably be pretty good, too.

I think I'm leaning heavily towards McGill at the moment. If they offer a meaningful amount of scholarship, it will probably just seal the deal for me. I am eagerly waiting to receive my official offer letter with the amount of scholarship specified.
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Rotman vs. Schulich vs. Desautels (McGill) [#permalink]

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New post 22 Feb 2017, 10:21
EduSimplified wrote:
Hi Rookie84,
First of all congratulations on getting admitted in Schulich and McGill. Why didn't you try Ivey? I would like to know if thats ok! seems from your line of questioning that Ivey could've been best for you.

Moving on, you cannot go wrong with either. While comparing Rotman, Schulich & Desautels we are pointing our granular differences. It ultimately boils down to your MBA goals and which school better suits your needs. You definitely have laid out the pros and cons nicely. I would recommend assigning weight to all the point and calculating which school comes up top.

Short answer is : ROTMAN

Long answer:
Rotman +ve : Location: downtown toronto. (where you'll work most likely)

-ve: Class Size: Big class size means less resources per student. And obviously not a close knit class.

Schulich +ve: Location: Better than Montreal. Also may work for you since you're looking for cheaper accommodation.

-ve: Class Size: Again Big size.
Diversity: I'm not sure which ethnicity you belong to. But being an Indian in Schulich feels like you're pursuing an MBA in India.

Desautels +ve: Class Size: Very Small. I weigh this very highly. And it matters.

-ve Location: Job opportunities are less in Montreal as compared to Toronto.
Language: French will be an issue.

I would not rate schools on which is a Finance or a Consulting school. Since you're going for general management all schools are at par.
Regarding cost of living I would recommend looking at their websites. I have found that the figures are mostly accurate.
Overall, I would recommend you look to your learning goals and not fixate too much on job search. If you put in a necessary hardwork you will secure a job period. But the learning experience will be vastly different based on which city you're in, are you doing case based approach or not (I highly recommend) and so on.
Hope this helps. Please let me know what you decide.
Cheers.


Hi Deep,

Thank you so much for your insight. It really helps and I deeply appreciate it.

So the cost of tuition and cost of living must come in to play... Is Rotman really 50k + no daycare/preschool for my child (too expensive in Toronto) better?

I like the part where you mentioned, "If you put in necessary hard work, you will secure a job period." Since all three are good programs, I guess it would ultimately be up to how much effort I am willing to put in. :)

Thanks again!

EDIT: Sorry I forgot to answer your question. I did not consider Ivey because I am an international student seeking a work permit after graduation - you only get 1 year permit after 1 year program while you get 3 year permit after 2 year program. I also wanted to do an internship in summer to get some Canadian experience under my belt. Thus I did not consider any 1-year programs such as Ivey and Queen's.
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Re: Rotman vs. Schulich vs. Desautels (McGill) [#permalink]

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New post 24 Feb 2017, 12:40
1
Rookie84 wrote:
backbacon wrote:
I had a similar dilemma with McGill vs. Rotman. I think you summed up the pros and cons very well, at least, they are very similar to the lists I made for myself.

Currently I am leaning towards McGill, even as someone who is in Finance, because of the smaller class size/community and they offered me really good funding. I didn't look at Schulich so I don't have much to add there, though it did seem that Ivey, Rotman, Queens and Mcgill are generally considered the top Canadian programs.

Are you Canadian? Do you know what kind of industries/employers you are interested in apart from just general management? In making my decision, I spoke to some employers about their recruiting and how they saw the different schools. McGill also connected me with some of their recent alumni (2/3 took jobs in Toronto) who were in the areas I was interested in, and their perspectives were very useful to me. McGill career services staff were also willing to talk to me before I joined, which was not the case at Rotman. This was what I liked most about McGill, the community seemed very strong (just walk around the MBA part of the business building and everyone, staff and students, knows each other and what they are all doing) and they were very interested in helping me. Rotman the community also seems strong (I visited as well), and alumni I met were quite happy with it, but it's definitely not as close-knit as McGill (there are advantages and disadvantages to this depending on what you are looking for).

I think this point is also well made by the Bloomberg BusinessWeek rankings... Rotman places higher because it does better on the "reputation" criteria (they ask recruiters to rank programs). Nevertheless, McGill does much better than Rotman on the alumni and current student rankings, which corresponds with my recruiting experience where McGill was more helpful and more personalized. The larger employers I talked to seemed to have a slight preference for Rotman (this was in Finance), but they all said they also actively recruited at McGill, and at the end of the day they are both good schools/it's going to be way more up to you what you do personally than any difference between those two schools.

If it's worth anything to you, Rotman also has the best b-school faculty in Canada probably (which they pay a fortune in salaries for, it's no wonder they need so many students). I'm not convinced the marginal benefit is that high for students though, given that the McGill faculty is by no means weak, and in my experience top class researchers don't necessarily make top class teachers... though they do enhance the reputation of the school to outsiders. One current McGill student I spoke to, who went to a very good American school for UG, said they were very happy with faculty/classes at McGill (Rotman students I met felt the same).

I hear that the speaking French part for Montreal really depends on what industry/function you are going for. Some industries you will be fine with English, or at least, they would like you to learn French as well, but they will hire you with just English no problem. Others you NEED to speak French (general management seems like it would fall more on the French side?).

On location, if you want to work in Toronto there is an undoubted benefit to living there. Nevertheless, the alumni I met thought that it is by no means an insurmountable challenge (obv they and their classmates surmounted it), and noted that McGill does have strong ties into particular Toronto circles. The school plans some trips to Toronto, and if you are proactive (which you should be regardless of your program/location), you shouldn't have too much trouble making connections in Toronto. Also, while I like Toronto a lot (I worked a summer there in UG), Montreal is a truly unique and great city - great food, great culture, great prices, lots of fun.

Sorry for the incredibly long and rambling answer, but it's been a tiring work day and I don't feel like editing myself ;). Hopefully this is in anyway helpful to you....


Thank you for taking your time to type all of that and for your great perspectives.

No, I am not Canadian. I get to learn all about Canada when I start my MBA this year! :D

I definitely agree that McGill's tight knit community is one of its strongest points. I e-mailed student ambassadors from all 3 schools I applied to, and only ones that got back to me were from McGill. I chatted with two current students and they were both very much willing to help, spending about 30 minutes on a call with a stranger just because I was applying to McGill. Their admissions team is awesome and so helpful as well. I didn't talk to career services yet but judging from what you say, it sounds like they would probably be pretty good, too.

I think I'm leaning heavily towards McGill at the moment. If they offer a meaningful amount of scholarship, it will probably just seal the deal for me. I am eagerly waiting to receive my official offer letter with the amount of scholarship specified.



No problem. Either way, congratulations on your acceptances! And, welcome to Canada it sounds like! Really great place to live if you don't mind a cold winter ;).

Your options sound good, so I'm sure you'll be fine either way. Maybe see you at McGill next year!
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Re: Rotman vs. Schulich vs. Desautels (McGill) [#permalink]

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New post 24 Feb 2017, 15:07
backbacon wrote:
Rookie84 wrote:
backbacon wrote:
I had a similar dilemma with McGill vs. Rotman. I think you summed up the pros and cons very well, at least, they are very similar to the lists I made for myself.

Currently I am leaning towards McGill, even as someone who is in Finance, because of the smaller class size/community and they offered me really good funding. I didn't look at Schulich so I don't have much to add there, though it did seem that Ivey, Rotman, Queens and Mcgill are generally considered the top Canadian programs.

Are you Canadian? Do you know what kind of industries/employers you are interested in apart from just general management? In making my decision, I spoke to some employers about their recruiting and how they saw the different schools. McGill also connected me with some of their recent alumni (2/3 took jobs in Toronto) who were in the areas I was interested in, and their perspectives were very useful to me. McGill career services staff were also willing to talk to me before I joined, which was not the case at Rotman. This was what I liked most about McGill, the community seemed very strong (just walk around the MBA part of the business building and everyone, staff and students, knows each other and what they are all doing) and they were very interested in helping me. Rotman the community also seems strong (I visited as well), and alumni I met were quite happy with it, but it's definitely not as close-knit as McGill (there are advantages and disadvantages to this depending on what you are looking for).

I think this point is also well made by the Bloomberg BusinessWeek rankings... Rotman places higher because it does better on the "reputation" criteria (they ask recruiters to rank programs). Nevertheless, McGill does much better than Rotman on the alumni and current student rankings, which corresponds with my recruiting experience where McGill was more helpful and more personalized. The larger employers I talked to seemed to have a slight preference for Rotman (this was in Finance), but they all said they also actively recruited at McGill, and at the end of the day they are both good schools/it's going to be way more up to you what you do personally than any difference between those two schools.

If it's worth anything to you, Rotman also has the best b-school faculty in Canada probably (which they pay a fortune in salaries for, it's no wonder they need so many students). I'm not convinced the marginal benefit is that high for students though, given that the McGill faculty is by no means weak, and in my experience top class researchers don't necessarily make top class teachers... though they do enhance the reputation of the school to outsiders. One current McGill student I spoke to, who went to a very good American school for UG, said they were very happy with faculty/classes at McGill (Rotman students I met felt the same).

I hear that the speaking French part for Montreal really depends on what industry/function you are going for. Some industries you will be fine with English, or at least, they would like you to learn French as well, but they will hire you with just English no problem. Others you NEED to speak French (general management seems like it would fall more on the French side?).

On location, if you want to work in Toronto there is an undoubted benefit to living there. Nevertheless, the alumni I met thought that it is by no means an insurmountable challenge (obv they and their classmates surmounted it), and noted that McGill does have strong ties into particular Toronto circles. The school plans some trips to Toronto, and if you are proactive (which you should be regardless of your program/location), you shouldn't have too much trouble making connections in Toronto. Also, while I like Toronto a lot (I worked a summer there in UG), Montreal is a truly unique and great city - great food, great culture, great prices, lots of fun.

Sorry for the incredibly long and rambling answer, but it's been a tiring work day and I don't feel like editing myself ;). Hopefully this is in anyway helpful to you....


Thank you for taking your time to type all of that and for your great perspectives.

No, I am not Canadian. I get to learn all about Canada when I start my MBA this year! :D

I definitely agree that McGill's tight knit community is one of its strongest points. I e-mailed student ambassadors from all 3 schools I applied to, and only ones that got back to me were from McGill. I chatted with two current students and they were both very much willing to help, spending about 30 minutes on a call with a stranger just because I was applying to McGill. Their admissions team is awesome and so helpful as well. I didn't talk to career services yet but judging from what you say, it sounds like they would probably be pretty good, too.

I think I'm leaning heavily towards McGill at the moment. If they offer a meaningful amount of scholarship, it will probably just seal the deal for me. I am eagerly waiting to receive my official offer letter with the amount of scholarship specified.



No problem. Either way, congratulations on your acceptances! And, welcome to Canada it sounds like! Really great place to live if you don't mind a cold winter ;).

Your options sound good, so I'm sure you'll be fine either way. Maybe see you at McGill next year!


Thank you for your kind words! I think there is a very high chance that I will see you at McGill next year. I was indeed offered a very much meaningful scholarship so that really seals the deal for me. But it will become a hard decision again if Rotman offers more... :P
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Rotman vs. Schulich vs. Desautels (McGill) [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 12 Mar 2017, 21:04
Just thought I'd update this thread. I am committing to McGill as the offer deadline is fast approaching and Rotman still has not gotten back to me. More than 2 months of absolute silence and no replies to e-mail inquiries I sent. It is frustrating and makes me question if they value the applicants at all. Plus the sizable scholarship McGill offered makes the decision easier.

I did the math and the difference comes out to be about $60~70k factoring in the scholarship and the difference in living expenses. The difference in living cost of Toronto vs. Montreal is significant since I am taking my wife and child with me. From ROI perspective, this much difference in cost pretty much makes it a no brainer, I think.

Originally posted by Rookie84 on 12 Mar 2017, 11:42.
Last edited by Rookie84 on 12 Mar 2017, 21:04, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Rotman vs. Schulich vs. Desautels (McGill) [#permalink]

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New post 12 Mar 2017, 11:59
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You will love Montreal. Great culture and quality of life. Cost of living is low compared to Toronto.


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Rotman vs. Schulich vs. Desautels (McGill)

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