Haven't seen really any obese business school students... wonder whats up with that one?

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Fat B-students??

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lepium

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07 Feb 2007, 11:10

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aaudetat

I'm telling you guys - it's the poor folks. They're the fat ones. They really are. The educated ones -- not so fat.

(Though I happily concede that younger people are less likely to be fat.)

On aaudetat's post, I agree that poor uneducated people in the US may:

a) Be unable to afford healthier foods on a regular basis.
b) Be less informed on nutrition facts.

And I think it's unfair to consider her words as snobby or anything else.

On the other hand, it's interesting to consider how in other parts of the world it works the other way round. For example, in Sub-Saharan Africa:

Less privileged person:
- Will walk to places extensively and therefore exercise.
- May skip meals or replace full courses with affordable snacks.
- Healthy food (fruits, vegetables, fish, etc.) are much more affordable than processed food and therefore make it into most of his menus.
- Will probably be involved in some sort of manual labor.

Privileged person:
- Will drive / be driven to places.
- Will not be involved in manual labor.
- Will have regular access to less healthier food (ice creams, pastries, soft drinks, booze, etc.).
- Will not do any manual labor.

In some of these cultures, being overweight is culturally considered a status symbol. I know of one place where they have "fattening camps" for brides so that they won't look too skinny when walking down the aisle.

Cheers. L.

Mark4124

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07 Feb 2007, 11:15

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I grew up dirt poor and I certainly know many people without college degrees. I also know a great many "poor people" in labor professions who I am sure are in much better shape than most people in b-school. As willget800 seems to understand... the equation is "calories in - calories expended." You can eat MCD and fat all day long, if you are working out constantly it isn't going to matter if you are burning all those calories. Are you necessarily getting the best nutrion? Well, maybe not, but thin is a matter of calories. And making a sociological observation is much different than saying "poor people are the problem."

lepium

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07 Feb 2007, 11:23

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Mark4124

Mark, agreed on the equation and agreed that generalizations are always bad. Probably we could narrow it down as follows:

Poor uneducated people that do not perform manual labor have higher chances of being fat, because they are both less likely to have regular access to healthy food and less likely to be informed on nutrition facts. Of course we could find a million examples of poor uneducated people who are ultra-fit and of obese rich and educated people. However, the odds seem to be in favour of the wealthy educated ones.

And I think aaudetat's comments aim at what changes should be made to society, or which groups should be helped the most, rather than snobbing.

Cheers. L.

Mark4124

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07 Feb 2007, 11:24

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As someone who grew up in a "trailer," I find her comments incredibly insulting.

squali83

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07 Feb 2007, 11:40

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I grew up in a two bedroom pre-fab (5 sibilings) and have zero problem with the statement. There are exceptions but stereotypes are there for a reason. And unfortunately the equation you mentioned above is not completely true. Different calories are burnt different ways and produce different results with in the body. One who eats a 2000 cal diet of solely MCD will most certainly be more over weight than someone with a 2000 cal diet composed of healthy foods. See explanation below:

"How Fat is Stored in Your Body
Chylomicrons do not last long in the bloodstream -- only about eight minutes -- because enzymes called lipoprotein lipases break the fats into fatty acids. Lipoprotein lipases are found in the walls of blood vessels in fat tissue, muscle tissue and heart muscle. The activity of lipoprotein lipases depends upon the levels of insulin in the body. If insulin is high, then the lipases are highly active; if insulin is low, the lipases are inactive.

The fatty acids are then absorbed from the blood into fat cells, muscle cells and liver cells. In these cells, under stimulation by insulin, fatty acids are made into fat molecules and stored as fat droplets.

It is also possible for fat cells to take up glucose and amino acids, which have been absorbed into the bloodstream after a meal, and convert those into fat molecules. The conversion of carbohydrates or protein into fat is 10 times less efficient than simply storing fat in a fat cell, but the body can do it. If you have 100 extra calories in fat (about 11 grams) floating in your bloodstream, fat cells can store it using only 2.5 calories of energy. On the other hand, if you have 100 extra calories in glucose (about 25 grams) floating in your bloodstream, it takes 23 calories of energy to convert the glucose into fat and then store it. Given a choice, a fat cell will grab the fat and store it rather than the carbohydrates because fat is so much easier to store."

Thus, your interpretation that all calories are = is highly incorrect. Unless you eat the exact amount of calories your body expends a day (next to impossible to know that), then each calorie is created differently.

I feel our debate has digressed from its original purpose of determining whether uneducated people tend to be more obese. The truth is it is a long connection full of assumptions, but there is without a doubt a clear inverse connection between education and health.

gmatclb

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07 Feb 2007, 11:49

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lepium

And I think aaudetat's comments aim at what changes should be made to society, or which groups should be helped the most, rather than snobbing.

Cheers. L.

What in her post says that she thinks changes should be made to society? (maybe I missed one of her earlier posts)

She first comes out and says she is hot sh1t (in all caps). Really, who says they are hot on a Business School forum. (except attention whores)

(and to all the guys on this forum that are going ga-ga over some unkown girl that says they are HOT. Go get some real chicks. You've been studying and writing for too long.)

And then she says the "fat ones are the poor people".... "the educated ones are not so fat"

While true to some extent... there are many more factors involved.

Its like saying Asians are smarter than everyone else.

Mark4124

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07 Feb 2007, 11:53

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"Thus, your interpretation that all calories are = is highly incorrect. Unless you eat the exact amount of calories your body expends a day (next to impossible to know that), then each calorie is created differently."

Or less than that number, ie if you workout or work alot physically! Gylcemic index is an interesting concept in this regard, but all and all if you eat less calories than you burn you will loose weight in the final analysis. Sure, if you eat more than your caloric requirement it is going to make a hell of a difference. But if you are in deficit you will loose weight.

I don't have a problem with her premise... I have a problem with the way she states it. Such comments as... "my friends at the trailer court will not be joining me at b-school." But hey, I guess no one can understand that. Except perhaps gmatclb

lepium

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07 Feb 2007, 11:56

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gmatclb

What in her post says that she thinks changes should be made to society? (maybe I missed one of her earlier posts)

Whenever you say the "problem is X", you are identifying what you think should be corrected. Is not so much literally written as implied.

Anyways, I propose we leave this post as it is. We won't be adding anything valuable after your last explanation and if anyone cares to investigate there'll be plenty of resources available in the Internet.

Cheers. L.

rhyme

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07 Feb 2007, 12:09

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woah, whats going on in this thread?

lepium

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07 Feb 2007, 12:12

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rhyme

woah, whats going on in this thread?

There's a truce going on, so go read the posts and stop there.

lhotseface

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07 Feb 2007, 12:13

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Let's leave the weighty problems for posterity and get back on the b-school track...

lepium

rhyme

woah, whats going on in this thread?

There's a truce going on, so go read the posts and stop there.

johnnyx9

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07 Feb 2007, 12:14

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Gmatclb,

What are you basing your assertion that "Asians are smarter than everyone" on?

Okay, just kidding.

While I definitely detect a bit of snobbery in some of the comments in this thread I think we should cut everyone a little slack because in general I think people being irreverent and smart alecky is what makes these threads interesting to read. I don't put a whole lot of thought into my posts (obviously) and sometimes later realize they probably come across as snobby or insulting, where my main goal is usually just to get some conversation going.

batchgmat

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07 Feb 2007, 12:34

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I just made some farting noises to ease the tension in this thread.

squali83

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07 Feb 2007, 13:16

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Mark4124

This is only true if your body remains at the same metabolic level. Exercising would most likely accomplish that however if you just reduce intake your body will reduce its metabolism accordingly. Thus it means..........Just screwing with you Mark4124. This debate was interesting and exciting. However, the forum was most likely the wrong place to discuss it. So if anyone wants to have a beer and wings and discuss caloric intake and staying healthy :lol:

rhyme

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07 Feb 2007, 13:23

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thread wins.

aaudetat

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07 Feb 2007, 22:23

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Okay, I know someone said truce, but I am back after a day off the net and feel it's only fair I get to chime in.

First:

Grew up in a trailer court. Only child of a single mom who busted her a$$ on a crappy job and basically raised myself. Am a first generation college grad, and first-ever advanced degree candidate. Many members of my family are uneducated and overweight and eat horrible food. The rest are uneducated, eat horrible food, and have a normal weight, due to good genes and an active lifestyle. There are a couple exceptions, of course. I am certainly not making comments from the penthouse of the Hilton.

Second:

Yes, comments were irreverant. Sorry, I am that way and am putting less effort into being PC than I normally would. And really, life's just more fun when you let it rip sometimes.

Third:

I work with people who make low incomes all day, every day. It's my job. Our economy is a lovely one in many ways, but there are many many people who are getting left in the cold. Incomes among lower wage earners are stagnant or maybe even shrinking when you compare inflation, education costs, and housing. It is DAMNED HARD to get by. I have devoted my life (well, short as it is) to helping people work outside and within the system to surmount the many economic challenges they face. I am the last person to blame the poor folks. It's not my cousin's fault that empty calories of the kind you find in a convenience store are many times cheaper than the whole, non-processed foods most of us made for dinner. When choosing between buying organic and paying the electric bill, which would you pick?

Fourth:

Obviously, there are always exceptions. But as others on this thread pointed out, obesity and poor nutrition are strongly correlated with socio-economic status. I didn't invent that stat. And here's another one: this is the first time in the history of the world that obesity and hunger due to poor nutrition are equally prevalent. Fun, huh? Everyone should go read "The Omnivore's Dilemma" or watch "SuperSize Me" or read "Fastfood Nation." You'll never view those golden arches in the same way again.

Fifth:

Yep, I am an attention whore. You've got that much right. And after teaching aerobics two days a week for 6 months, I am in good shape.

Sixth:

Over half of communication isn't about your words; it's about your tone and various non-verbal cues. I usually try to avoid getting worked up over something like an email when it's so hard to be sure of the person's original intent.

Praetorian

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07 Feb 2007, 23:29

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Mark4124, it goes without saying that you were offended by this and I understand why. I agree that aaudetat could have put it in a different way, but I also recognize that sometimes comments can be misinterpreted. Reading about her background only confirms this.

Guys

If we are offended by a comment, let us send a message to that author requesting a clarification. If you do not get a reply within 24 hrs, let us know and we will find out more. We cant force any of you to follow this etiquette, but it would certainly make life a lot better for us.

Posting your objections right in the thread, as all of us have seen, only takes away attention from the topic of discussion.

And yes, posts with personal attacks that have no relevance to the discussion will be deleted. You dont want us to become BW, do ya?

thanks :-)

kidderek

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08 Feb 2007, 12:54

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Next on A Current Affair . . . When silly topics get serious . . .

Anyway, how many pullups/chinups can you guys do? I'm at 10 chinups, not too shabby.

squali83

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08 Feb 2007, 13:21

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kidderek

Next on A Current Affair . . . When silly topics get serious . . .

Anyway, how many pullups/chinups can you guys do? I'm at 10 chinups, not too shabby.

I dont know but I can bench 9 million lbs. :lol:

GMATT73

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08 Feb 2007, 19:46

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squali83

kidderek

Next on A Current Affair . . . When silly topics get serious . . .

Anyway, how many pullups/chinups can you guys do? I'm at 10 chinups, not too shabby.

I dont know but I can bench 9 million lbs. :lol:

After 15+ years of training, I tried to bench three plates last summer and ended up ripping my right side pectoralis major fibers clean off the chest cavity. It was so painful that I had to ice it then and there to keep the swelling down. The injury took almost a month to heal and I can still feel the pain whenever I go over two plates.

Take it from a guy who has been there (several times), stick with low-medium weight and focus on form.

As for b-school students being fat, here's my take:

Are we talking about a little chubby; 30~50 pounds overweight? Or are we referring to the triple chinned, Sumo wrestler, gotta buy two seats in economy class, so big that they break chairs and live on Bobs Big Boy buffet types?

If it's the former, then based on empirical observations, I'd say about 1/3. The other two thirds are obviously aware that being lean and strong DOES have a positive impact on their self-esteem and therefore probably make a concious effort to strive to improve their physical appearance in order to reach some of their personal/professional goals.

Let's not forget the student body demographics. About 1/3~1/2 of most graduate students are of asian/indian backgrounds, ethnic groups that biologically tend to be less prone to obesity.

Now referring to the latter, I have never once seen a Pillsbury dough boy on any campus tour. It's just a simple fact that most 400+ pound people have too many health related issues to be able to keep up with an active b-school life; particating in clubs, interviewing, networking... It takes both mental and physical strength to cross the MBA finish line, attributes that an obese person would most likely find overbearing, if not over-intimidating.

Just for the record, we all have a little fat on our bodies, the percentage of which tends to fluctuate throughout the year. Even olympians have 4~6% body fat. It's when the figure reaches 30%+ that one needs to really consider his lifestyle and long term health ramifications.