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Re: Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
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Let's try this one.

Number of ways we can divide the Red marbles: MMM, MMN, MNN, NNN --> 4 ways
Number of ways we can divide the Green marbles: MM, MN, NN --> 3 ways
Number of ways we can divide the Blue marble: M or N --> 2 ways

Total number of ways: 4*3*2 = 24

C for me!
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Re: Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
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Identical objects division into r no of people is given n+r-1Cr-1 or by |000 00 0 {one separator(means two people or two sub groups or two divisions) and 6 identical objects}
Lets break this into smaller chunks
1 division of 3 identical red marbles within two people. |ooo ----> This can be done in 4!/3! ways = 4 ways
2 division of 2 identical green marbles within two people. |oo ----> This can be done in 3!/2! ways = 3 ways
3 division of 1 green marble within two people. This is the easiest,it can be with either Nora or Med. So only two possibilities.


Required =1*2*3 = 4*3*2 = 24
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Re: Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
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hD13 wrote:

Why isn't this?

RRRGGB|
Arranging of the above temrs?
Which will b
7!/3!*2!
420..
What's happening :(


You might imagine some rearrangements you'd be producing that way, and think of what they mean in the context of this question. For example, you might get this arrangement:

RGR | RGB

which would mean "Mel gets red, green and red marbles" and Nora gets the rest. But when you count arrangements as you're doing, you'll get a different arrangement that looks like this:

GRR | BGR

which means "Mel gets green, red and red marbles" and Nora gets the rest. But that's the same situation we counted a minute ago, and we don't want to count it again.

When you arrange letters to make a word, you're automatically assuming order is important, because the only thing that makes one word different from another that uses the same letters is the order those letters are in. In this problem, we aren't handing out marbles to the people in order, so we don't want to count as if order is important. When you do, you end up inadvertently double-counting dozens of things, and you'll get an answer that is much too large.

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Re: Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
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Niveditha28 wrote:
Bunuel VeritasKarishma I took 6 marbles in total and worked with the cases (0 ,6) ,(1,5), (2, 4) , (3 ,3) .This way I was getting 74 as total no. of ways marbles can be distributed

Please correct me why this logic is incorrect. Why does the color of the marble matter when we are distributing marbles between two people?


When we say that there are 3 red marbles, the 3 marbles are identical. So if Mel gets 1 red marble. it doesn't matter which one it is.

Even if you use the cases
(0 ,6) - 2 ways (Mel or Nora gets 0)
(1,5) - 3 ways in which 1 marble can be chosen (red/green/blue) and given to either Mel or Nora. 6 ways
(2, 4) - 2 ways of choosing same color marbles and 3 ways of choosing different color marbles. Giving 2 to either Mel or Nora. Total 10 ways
(3 ,3) - 1 way of choosing all same colour, 2 ways of choosing two marbles of same colour * 2 for the second color, 1 way of choosing all three different color marbles. Total 6 ways

In all, 24 ways.
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Re: Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
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Niveditha28 wrote:
VeritasKarishma wrote:
Niveditha28 wrote:
Bunuel VeritasKarishma I took 6 marbles in total and worked with the cases (0 ,6) ,(1,5), (2, 4) , (3 ,3) .This way I was getting 74 as total no. of ways marbles can be distributed

Please correct me why this logic is incorrect. Why does the color of the marble matter when we are distributing marbles between two people?


When we say that there are 3 red marbles, the 3 marbles are identical. So if Mel gets 1 red marble. it doesn't matter which one it is.

Even if you use the cases
(0 ,6) - 2 ways (Mel or Nora gets 0)
(1,5) - 3 ways in which 1 marble can be chosen (red/green/blue) and given to either Mel or Nora. 6 ways
(2, 4) - 2 ways of choosing same color marbles and 3 ways of choosing different color marbles. Giving 2 to either Mel or Nora. Total 10 ways
(3 ,3) - 1 way of choosing all same colour, 2 ways of choosing two marbles of same colour * 2 for the second color, 1 way of choosing all three different color marbles. Total 6 ways

Please guide me with right approach to solve such questions
In all, 24 ways.


VeritasKarishma while i understand the logic you explained above , I'm still not clear why my approach is wrong . I used the combinations route of solving. The balls can be divided in 4 different combinations as listed below:

(0,6) or (6,0) - 6C6 *( 2 ways ) = 2
(1,5) or ( 5 ,1) - 6C1 *5C5 * (2 ways) =12
(2,4) or (4 , 2) - 6C2 * 4C4 * 2 ways=30
(3,3) - only 1 way - 6C3*3C3 = 20
all 4 combinations sum up to 64 .


Niveditha28 - Think about what this means.

(0,6) or (6,0) - 6C6 *( 2 ways ) = 2
What is (0, 6) or (6, 0) - These are the 2 ways in which all 6 marbles go to either Mel or Nora.

(1,5) or ( 5 ,1)
The number of ways in 1 marble goes to Mel or Nora. Can you do 6C1 here? What does 6C1 represent? The number of ways in which you can select 1 out of 6 distinct objects. Do we have 6 distinct objects? No. We can 3 identical, 2 identical and 1 other. So we can select 1 object in only 3 ways. When you pick a red marble, is it any different from the other 2 red marbles? No.
Similarly, you cannot use 6C2 and 6C3.
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Re: Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
Does anyone have more problems like this? (i.e.: with two possible framings, of which one has a much simpler math)

Thanks!
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Re: Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
Bunuel wrote:
Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, and one blue marble. In how many ways can Mel and Nora divide the marbles between themselves, if it is not necessary for each of them to get at least one marble?

A. 6
B. 18
C. 24
D. 36
E. 72



Why isn't this?

RRRGGB|
Arranging of the above temrs?
Which will b
7!/3!*2!
420..
What's happening :(

Posted from my mobile device
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Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
Bunuel VeritasKarishma I took 6 marbles in total and worked with the cases (0 ,6) ,(1,5), (2, 4) , (3 ,3) .This way I was getting 74 as total no. of ways marbles can be distributed

Please correct me why this logic is incorrect. Why does the color of the marble matter when we are distributing marbles between two people?
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Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
VeritasKarishma wrote:
Niveditha28 wrote:
Bunuel VeritasKarishma I took 6 marbles in total and worked with the cases (0 ,6) ,(1,5), (2, 4) , (3 ,3) .This way I was getting 74 as total no. of ways marbles can be distributed

Please correct me why this logic is incorrect. Why does the color of the marble matter when we are distributing marbles between two people?


When we say that there are 3 red marbles, the 3 marbles are identical. So if Mel gets 1 red marble. it doesn't matter which one it is.

Even if you use the cases
(0 ,6) - 2 ways (Mel or Nora gets 0)
(1,5) - 3 ways in which 1 marble can be chosen (red/green/blue) and given to either Mel or Nora. 6 ways
(2, 4) - 2 ways of choosing same color marbles and 3 ways of choosing different color marbles. Giving 2 to either Mel or Nora. Total 10 ways
(3 ,3) - 1 way of choosing all same colour, 2 ways of choosing two marbles of same colour * 2 for the second color, 1 way of choosing all three different color marbles. Total 6 ways

Please guide me with right approach to solve such questions
In all, 24 ways.


VeritasKarishma while i understand the logic you explained above , I'm still not clear why my approach is wrong . I used the combinations route of solving. The balls can be divided in 4 different combinations as listed below:

(0,6) or (6,0) - 6C6 *( 2 ways ) = 2
(1,5) or ( 5 ,1) - 6C1 *5C5 * (2 ways) =12
(2,4) or (4 , 2) - 6C2 * 4C4 * 2 ways=30
(3,3) - only 1 way - 6C3*3C3 = 20
all 4 combinations sum up to 64 .
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Re: Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
VeritasKarishma thank you for the explanation.I now understand where i faltered.

Questions on identical/distinct items are quite confusing.
Any question set on such topics will greatly help

Posted from my mobile device
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Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
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Niveditha28 wrote:
VeritasKarishma thank you for the explanation.I now understand where i faltered.

Questions on identical/distinct items are quite confusing.
Any question set on such topics will greatly help

Posted from my mobile device


-

Originally posted by KarishmaB on 30 Sep 2021, 22:06.
Last edited by KarishmaB on 05 Dec 2023, 01:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
VeritasKarishma wrote:
Niveditha28 wrote:
VeritasKarishma thank you for the explanation.I now understand where i faltered.

Questions on identical/distinct items are quite confusing.
Any question set on such topics will greatly help

Posted from my mobile device


Niveditha28 - Check these posts:

https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/veritas-prep-resource-links-no-longer-available-399979.html#/2011/1 ... cs-part-1/
https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/veritas-prep-resource-links-no-longer-available-399979.html#/2011/1 ... s-part-ii/



Hello. I used a method from on of your tutorials on combinatorics. The first marble has 2 choices it can go to (Nora and Mel) the second also has 2 and so on and so forth. But 2^5 isn’t an answer. Where am I going wrong?
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Re: Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
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Re: Mel and Nora share a total of three red marbles, two green marbles, an [#permalink]
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