Prestigious MBA program with a low GPA

Question

I have a very low undergrad GPA of 2.37 from the Air Force Academy, graduated in 2010. I am currently getting my Masters in Entrepreneurship from Oklahoma State University and have a 4.0 GPA. Currently I work as a contract manager in charge of approximately $150M in contracts, and I will be moving to Boeing to oversee the C-17 billion dollar contract. I am also currently starting my own online based business. I plan on applying to an A list MBA program for Fall 2015 and I will probably take the GMAT shortly before then. Do I even have a shot at a prestigious MBA programs? Or have I already disqualified myself with my low undergrad GPA? Thanks for your help!

kasonhills · Answer

What do you consider A list schools? For example, I have a real hard time seeing a 2.37 gpa getting into a top 10-15 school though I'm sure on occasion it happens. What's your reason for the poor GPA? Were there extenuating circumstances?

Anyway, you'll probably need to do really well on the GMAT to have a shot at a solid program. Have you taken any practice tests or started studying yet? Your score will be a major factor in the admissions process so how you do will dictate reasonable programs to target.

builtok · Answer

I would consider any school ranked in the top 20 to be prestigious. I have no excuse for having a low GPA, I was irresponsible in undergrad. I was a legal studies major, and yet had to take astronautical engineering and aeronautical engineering (required for my school) which definitely did not help my grades. I did take a math portion of the test and got 1 question wrong. Other than that no other GMAT prep was done, as I have my hands full right now working full time and going to graduate school.

CobraKai · Answer

I hate to be there bearer of bad news, but the answer is: probably. A 2.37 is VERY hard to overcome. It's not like a 2.8 or 2.9 some people can chalk up to immaturity and then offset with a stellar GMAT score. I've heard academy guys say: "But I went to a service academy, it's tougher, we have all these time commitments, etc. etc." The problem with this argument is that your competition is going to consist of other academy guys with GPAs over 3.0 and some in the 3.4-3.6 range, and that's an apples to apples comparison. Unfortunately the Masters GPA won't carry as much weight as you'd like for a couple of reasons:

1) Masters grades tend to be higher
2) Undergraduate GPA is something everyone has, is reported in the class profile, which in turn plays into rankings.

The biggest thing you'll have to do if an MBA is important to you is adjust your expectations. Top 9 schools are off the table. Schools in the 10-16 range are going to be a serious stretch. What are your goals? How does an MBA fit into this? The key now will be to find a school that you can get into that will help you achieve your goals. For a frame of reference, I had an acquaintance who was a USNA grad with a 2.4 GPA and a 720 GMAT. He was really shallow in his applications to schools and only wanted "Top 10 schools in major cities" after he was humbled by dings everywhere, he tossed a round 3 application at Darden hoping it would stick; it didn't.

Granted there's more to an application than GPA and GMAT, but when it comes to it, you not only need to give the adcom a reason to select you, you need to give them a reason to select you over other impressive military candidates who fared a lot better in school than you did.

Here are some helpful links:
 https://blog.militarytobusiness.com/2013/04/military-profiles-at-top-business.html 
 https://blog.militarytobusiness.com/2013/01/odds-of-getting-in-at-hbs-and-other-top.html

builtok · Answer

Hmm.... Thanks for your input. I plan on applying to these schools regardless, because you never know until you try.... But what would be more practical schools to apply to? Would 15-25 ranked schools be a viable option? Lastly is there anything I can do to offset such a low GPA, besides doing well on the GMAT? Thanks again for your help!

rjkaufman21 · Answer

Cobrakai spelled out my thoughts pretty precisely. There is a lot of competition for top 20 programs. After going through the whole application process this year I was really surprised by how hard it is to crack that top tier when you have a blemish like a low GPA on your application.

Just to share my profile and application experience: I'm a 27 yr old white male. I have solid work experience, lots of community involvement and service, international experience, and I got a 780 on the GMAT. I also hired an admissions consultant to help me put together my applications. My one weakness was my GPA, and it isn't bad compared to yours - it was a 3.2 something. Anyway, I applied to seven top 20 schools, three in rd 1 and four in rd 2. I was auto dinged at Kellogg and Columbia. Waitlisted at Fuqua, Ross, UCLA and Darden. Accepted to McCombs, with a scholarship which I'm grateful for, but I really thought that would be my backup. Maybe I just had bad luck, and perhaps I'll still get in off the waitlist to one or more schools, but my point is that it's very competitive. Try to keep an open mind as you research schools.

I do agree with CobraKai on the top 16. I think if you ace the GMAT and execute your apps perfectly, you might have an outside shot at a school in the range of 17-25. But I'd suggest you figure out what your goals are and where you want to live after school and find some solid regional programs that align with those goals. Because a 2.37 is going to be very tough to swallow for any top tier school.

The only other thing that you can really do to offset the GMAT is build an alternate transcript. Take some quant or business focused classes such as Econ, Accounting, Calc, Stats etc. And of course get A's in them.

CobraKai · Answer

Another thought: You'd be a more viable candidate as you go down the rankings, probably in the 30-40 range, due to being a military applicant. The reason I say this is, military guys are a commodity just like any other under represented candidate pool. But military guys are also like the general applicant pool in that they want to go to the top schools so places like HBS, GSB, Wharton, Tuck, Booth, Kellogg, Columbia, etc, etc, get plenty of military applicants, so they've got the luxury of picking the best of the bunch.

Schools further down the rankings such as Broad (Michigan State), Smeal (Penn State), and Georgia Tech have class sizes less than 100 and undoubtedly get less applicants, so having a military background could make you stand out from that pool and overcome the 2.37 GPA.

Dakells · Answer

Agreed with CobraKai and rjdunn. You definitely have a major battle ahead of you, but it's not impossible. As someone who was terrified their low GPA was going to preclude them from getting into a top school I did a lot of internet searching, there was someone on this board who had a 1.9 or something like that a few years who still got in to a top school. Aside from what the others have said above, you should spend these next couple of years basically building up as much material as you can for your applications. Get involved in some things outside of work that will make you stand out, not your typical mentoring or soup kitchen, something that is different and will stick in the adcom's heads. Also really make an effort to show leadership and initiative at work, that will give you stories to tell on your apps and will also give your recommenders a lot to talk about. Read through some of the current essay prompts to get an idea of the types of questions they ask, then make sure over the next couple of years that you have experiences at work that you can use to answer those types of questions. Finally, come up with a feasible goal that you are passionate about, have done something already that will help you achieve it, but that you NEED an MBA to achieve. Aside from doing well on the GMAT, you're going to need to nail your essays. Sounds like you work for Boeing? I think work experience is really one of the most important aspects of the application, having a solid blue chip name on your resume definitely helps. Good luck!

qshdz · Answer

builtok, I felt I must reply to this as I'm in the same boat. I have a 2.48 under GPA from a foreign school, and a 3.75 Master's GPA from US school and a 750 GMAT, marketing & automotive background, will have 6yrs experience and will be 30 in 2014. I'm applying for 2014 admission for top 10 schools (CBS, Wharton, Kellogg, Yale, MIT) . You will 100% hear different opinions from gmatclub members and admission consultants, I can assure you. Applicants tend to give you advice from their experience, and consultants are complicated, many tend to drag you down a level so to be 'safe' for you and for them, some may be inspired by your story and work with you to try your dream school.

My recommendation, and something I am doing right now, is to apply in R1 this year, prepare early and really find a consultant to help you to overcome this disadvantage (this consultant must believe in you, not too crazy in his own world, specifically cares about your story and remain cool and neutral), the undergrad GPA - what's done is done, so what? It's amost 10 years ago, It's your own decision and your dream and as long as it's not a extreme stretch (HBS/Stanford), why not?

If you'd like we can get in touch through private message and I can share you with my experience.

Thanks,
qs

CobraKai · Answer

Normally good advice, but for those unfamiliar with the military, the OP graduated from the US Air Force Academy in 2010 and has a 5 year service commitment, making 2015 the earliest matriculation date.

builtok · Answer

Thanks again for your input. I have one last question. Would a part time MBA program be much easier to get into? Specifically NYU? I'm originally from NYC so it would be the cheapest for me to go there since I wouldn't have to rent a room, and I definitely would not mind going to school and working at the same time. Thanks again for your time!
-Jeff

TonyMontana896 · Answer

Part time is generally significantly less competitive. I just looked up NYU on US News:

For part time the acceptance rate is 61.7%. The average GPA is 3.35 and the average GMAT is only 671.

Compare that to the full time program which has an acceptance rate of 15.7% with ave GPA of 3.51 and GMAT of 720.

Much easier to get into part time.

CobraKai · Answer

That's not a bad idea, especially when you consider that the PT program starts in both the fall and spring.

https://www.stern.nyu.edu/programs-admissions/part-time-mba/admissions/deadlines-process/index.htm

mbailey2 · Answer

Once you get into a PT program can you transfer to the full-time?

Prestigious MBA program with a low GPA

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