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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations [#permalink]
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03 Apr 2013, 13:52
@pqhai, Wow sounds interesting... but actually it was bit too technical . Can you please elaborate using one example. If i m not wrong u mean the second part "so Y" acts as a absolute phrase modifying the first total clause part 'So X'. Any other gmat prep sc or og sc that we uses similar tech.
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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations [#permalink]
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03 Apr 2013, 14:30
sujit2k7 wrote:
@pqhai, Wow sounds interesting... but actually it was bit too technical . Can you please elaborate using one example. If i m not wrong u mean the second part "so Y" acts as a absolute phrase modifying the first total clause part 'So X'. Any other gmat prep sc or og sc that we uses similar tech.
Hi sujit2k7
Yes, it's quite technical. In fact, absolute construction is difficult to use and is rarely used by GMAC.
You're absolutely right. An absolute construction is a secondary clause in a sentence that modifies the whole meaning of the main clause. Hence, "so Y" construction modifies the first part. Here is one example: so beautiful her hair, Mary walked down the street.
Hope it helps.
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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations [#permalink]
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04 Apr 2013, 16:36
sujit2k7 wrote:
I think this one of the weird GMAT prep questions... no good explanations in any of the forums... if some one can really go on and dissect it rather than just telling E looks better parallel than others , than KUDOS are waiting for him
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker.
A. and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, B. and lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, so that C. her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that D. lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent, E. so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that
My question is what is take away from this question. any similar examples. Do we not need the 'AND' before second SO. Do we not need the verb in construction E (is ellipses work here..can some one so another example )
This indeed is a very difficult question. However, even if you were wondering why there is no "and" rather than a comma as I did, you could have answered the question using process of elimination, and parallelism when you are deciding between C and E. I must say that the way the absolute phrase is used in this sentence is awkward, though grammatically correct.
I think this one of the weird GMAT prep questions... no good explanations in any of the forums... if some one can really go on and dissect it rather than just telling E looks better parallel than others , than KUDOS are waiting for him
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker.
A. and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, B. and lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, so that C. her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that D. lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent, E. so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that
My question is what is take away from this question. any similar examples. Do we not need the 'AND' before second SO. Do we not need the verb in construction E (is ellipses work here..can some one so another example )
Since the questions are pertaining to the structure of the correct choice, I will only take that one in my response.
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker.
I will simplify this sentence for my analysis:
So dogged were FP's investigations, so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government.
There are certain specific things about the structure of this sentence.
1: Inverted Structure
If this sentence were written in a more straightforward way, it would be as follows: FP's investigations of the garment industry were so dogged that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government. (notice that I have not considered the second element in this sentence for the sake of explanation. I will consider that in my analysis below:) ) Now to come up with the sentence in question, simply flip the order of the SV in the first clause in the simple sentence above. This will get us to the following version: So dogged were FP's investigations, that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government.
2: Idiom used
Let's take the simplified version of the sentence (I will show both inverted and straight sentences) - FP's investigations of the garment industry were so dogged that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government. - So dogged were FP's investigations, that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government. So as you can see, the idiom that has been used here is "So x that Y".
3: Two entities connected using a comma
I understand that there are two elements in the list but they have been connected using a comma. Let's consider the straight version of this sentence: - FP's investigations of the garment industry were so dogged AND her lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government. In this version I would have added the second element using an AND.
Now let's consider the inverted structure. - So dogged were FP's investigations AND so persistent was her lobbying for wage and hour reform that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government. Here also I would have added the second element using an AND
So why is there is no AND and a COMMA instead - I do not know. I can almost say that it is a style of writing and certainly not a common style of writing.
4: Ellipsis
As you can see, the second element does not contain a verb. In fact ellipsis is at play here. Here is another sentence with similar ellipsis at play:
Of all the wild animals in their area, none was more useful to the Delaware tribes than the Virginia white- tailed deer: it was a source of meat, and its hide was used for clothing, its antlers and bones were used for tools, and its sinews and gut were used for bindings and glue.
Notice the verb "was used" in the first element. Notice no verb in the second and third elements. But here ellipsis is at play.
Take away
- Follow the process for solving the question. Eliminate choices on deterministic errors and then consider errors such as punctuation etc. Yes, while you are preparing for GMAT, you must understand the construction of the correct sentence, but when you are in test environment, be confident of your approach and do not second guess yourself if questions such as these appear.
Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins investigations of the garment [#permalink]
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29 Sep 2013, 09:33
raghupara wrote:
chan4312 wrote:
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker. A. and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, no correct idiom.. B. and lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, so that parallelism fails C. her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that correct. parallel ...ans also idiom so.that D. lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent, parallelism fails E. so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that parallelism fails
IMO C
Hi pal,
C cannot be the choice because it uses-'Her' but there is no direct name referent.
Thanks many , Kudos if clarified!!
'her' is a valid usage in C as its in possessive form. However you cannot use a subject pronoun - 'she'
Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins investigations of the garment [#permalink]
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16 Jan 2014, 08:47
4
This post received KUDOS
goalsnr wrote:
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker. A. and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, B. and lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, so that C. her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that D. lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent, E. so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that
2 Parallel Sentences here to be checked... So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry that Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt ....... So persistent was her lobbying for wage and hour reform that Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt ....... Here both colored portion are parallel and correct sentences independently.
Here the sentences are joined, but second parallel structure is joined in. But the second parallel structure has been converted to a Absolute phrase by deleting the verb(was) from second sentence. So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, so persistent was her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited ....
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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the [#permalink]
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16 May 2014, 19:19
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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the [#permalink]
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17 May 2014, 12:43
Very informational post by e-GMAT! I almost took a little over 2 minutes (30 seconds to choose between C and E) and arrived at E only due to parallelism. C is in active voice and E is in the same voice as the clause before the underlined part. Is is safe to assume that this is a 700+ question? I have hardly observed such ellipsis at play questions on the mocks that I have given
_________________
Very informational post by e-GMAT! I almost took a little over 2 minutes (30 seconds to choose between C and E) and arrived at E only due to parallelism. C is in active voice and E is in the same voice as the clause before the underlined part. Is is safe to assume that this is a 700+ question? I have hardly observed such ellipsis at play questions on the mocks that I have given
Thanks alot @paranoidvik for your kind words of appreciation. It gives us immense pleasure when GMAT community gets benefited from our posts
This question is a 700+ level question. So pat yourself for getting it correct. But at the same time, you took more than 2 minutes to answer it correctly. So you should spend the time learning from this question not just the concept but also the approach. Ask yourself - why did I take longer to answer this question? Why could I not spot the voice difference between choices C and E. In fact this is the key difference between the two close choices. From the meaning of the sentence you should have figured out that there are two things that the author talks about - so dogged was something, so persistent was something. And hence the requirement of making them parallel. So you should definitely introspect why you got tangled in these two choices.
Now coming to ellipsis in this question - There are two official questions in this post itself in which we see such parallelism. Now is such ellipsis application very prevalent - I would say no. But its worth noting such usages down so that you are not stumped by them if you see such usage in the exam environment. From ellipsis standpoint, I suggest you review our article on ellipsis in detail if you have not already done so.
Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the [#permalink]
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20 May 2014, 02:27
I have gone through all the mails posted by people in the above posts.
However I am still not clear why the correct option E actually does not use "and" in between the 2 parts of the sentence (So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, AND so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform).
Without the use of "and", option E really sounds very strange. So is there a grammar rule that someone can help me with, that is working in option E.
Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the [#permalink]
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30 Jun 2014, 06:25
1
This post was BOOKMARKED
egmat wrote:
sujit2k7 wrote:
I think this one of the weird GMAT prep questions... no good explanations in any of the forums... if some one can really go on and dissect it rather than just telling E looks better parallel than others , than KUDOS are waiting for him
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker.
A. and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, B. and lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, so that C. her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that D. lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent, E. so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that
My question is what is take away from this question. any similar examples. Do we not need the 'AND' before second SO. Do we not need the verb in construction E (is ellipses work here..can some one so another example )
Since the questions are pertaining to the structure of the correct choice, I will only take that one in my response.
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker.
I will simplify this sentence for my analysis:
So dogged were FP's investigations, so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government.
There are certain specific things about the structure of this sentence.
1: Inverted Structure
If this sentence were written in a more straightforward way, it would be as follows: FP's investigations of the garment industry were so dogged that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government. (notice that I have not considered the second element in this sentence for the sake of explanation. I will consider that in my analysis below:) ) Now to come up with the sentence in question, simply flip the order of the SV in the first clause in the simple sentence above. This will get us to the following version: So dogged were FP's investigations, that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government.
2: Idiom used
Let's take the simplified version of the sentence (I will show both inverted and straight sentences) - FP's investigations of the garment industry were so dogged that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government. - So dogged were FP's investigations, that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government. So as you can see, the idiom that has been used here is "So x that Y".
3: Two entities connected using a comma
I understand that there are two elements in the list but they have been connected using a comma. Let's consider the straight version of this sentence: - FP's investigations of the garment industry were so dogged AND her lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government. In this version I would have added the second element using an AND.
Now let's consider the inverted structure. - So dogged were FP's investigations AND so persistent was her lobbying for wage and hour reform that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government. Here also I would have added the second element using an AND
So why is there is no AND and a COMMA instead - I do not know. I can almost say that it is a style of writing and certainly not a common style of writing.
4: Ellipsis
As you can see, the second element does not contain a verb. In fact ellipsis is at play here. Here is another sentence with similar ellipsis at play:
Of all the wild animals in their area, none was more useful to the Delaware tribes than the Virginia white- tailed deer: it was a source of meat, and its hide was used for clothing, its antlers and bones were used for tools, and its sinews and gut were used for bindings and glue.
Notice the verb "was used" in the first element. Notice no verb in the second and third elements. But here ellipsis is at play.
Take away
- Follow the process for solving the question. Eliminate choices on deterministic errors and then consider errors such as punctuation etc. Yes, while you are preparing for GMAT, you must understand the construction of the correct sentence, but when you are in test environment, be confident of your approach and do not second guess yourself if questions such as these appear.
I hope this helps.
Regards, Payal
Thanks Payal. Your reply certainly cleared my doubt... _________________
I'm happy to help if you wanna know about Ross & UMich, but please do not come to me with your GMAT issues or questions. And please add a bit of humor to your questions or you'll bore me to death.
As goalsnr said, So X, So Y that Z is perfectly correct. Other wise NY Times would not use it.
The NYT statement is as follows: So dogged were her investigations of the garment industry, and so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that she was first recruited by Gov. Al Smith, and later by Gov. Franklin D. Roosevelt, to work within New York State government, rather than against it.
"and" is missing in option E. How can it be correct?
Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins investigations of the garment [#permalink]
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03 Sep 2014, 06:50
Hi guys,
I actually got this question on a GMATPrep CAT and unfortunately had an error.
Now I directly saw the 'So X, so Y' structure, but thought (E) included an error, because it had "her" referring back to "Frances Perkins' ". Now I thought that her can refer back to a noun/subject and while in this case it appears it is referring back to Frances Perkins, it is referring back to the possessive "Frances Perkins' ". Is this possible and in what cases can we use "she" and "her"?
Thanks!
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Thank you very much for reading this post till the end! Kudos?
Re: So dogged were Frances Perkin's investigations of the garment industry [#permalink]
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17 Oct 2014, 19:06
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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the [#permalink]
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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins investigations of the garment [#permalink]
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09 Jan 2016, 22:51
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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkins investigations of the garment [#permalink]
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09 Jan 2016, 22:53
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So dogged were her investigations of the garment industry, and so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that she was first recruited by Gov. Al Smith, and later by Gov. Franklin D. Roosevelt, to work within New York State government, rather than against it.
Choice E that corresponds to the version in the magazine misses an important ‘and’ before ‘so’; otherwise E may be the best choice. All the same, a disappointing question because of the poor transcription form the creator of this question, incidentally, GMATPREP
Interesting to note Ron’s comments about this
Re: SC set 27 Question 17 So dogged were Frances Perkins investi
Quote:
RonPurewal wrote:
If it's a correct answer, it's a correct answer.
This is a really, really old problem (over 10 years old, if it's in "set 27"). The current GMAT won't test such oddly constructed sentences, so it's best to forget about this one altogether.
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