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So dogged were Frances Perkin's investigations of the garment industry

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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkin's investigations of the garment industry  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Jan 2014, 07:47
4
goalsnr wrote:
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, and her
lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent,
Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D.
Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social
worker.
A. and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent,
B. and lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, so that
C. her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that
D. lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent,
E. so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that
2 Parallel Sentences here to be checked...
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry that Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt .......
So persistent was her lobbying for wage and hour reform that Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt .......
Here both colored portion are parallel and correct sentences independently.

Here the sentences are joined, but second parallel structure is joined in. But the second parallel structure has been converted to a Absolute phrase by deleting the verb(was) from second sentence.
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, so persistent was her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D.
Roosevelt recruited ....
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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkin's investigations of the garment industry  [#permalink]

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New post 17 May 2014, 11:43
Very informational post by e-GMAT! :)
I almost took a little over 2 minutes (30 seconds to choose between C and E) and arrived at E only due to parallelism.
C is in active voice and E is in the same voice as the clause before the underlined part.
Is is safe to assume that this is a 700+ question? I have hardly observed such ellipsis at play questions on the mocks that I have given
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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkin's investigations of the garment industry  [#permalink]

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New post 19 May 2014, 17:14
1
paranoidvik wrote:
Very informational post by e-GMAT! :)
I almost took a little over 2 minutes (30 seconds to choose between C and E) and arrived at E only due to parallelism.
C is in active voice and E is in the same voice as the clause before the underlined part.
Is is safe to assume that this is a 700+ question? I have hardly observed such ellipsis at play questions on the mocks that I have given


Thanks alot @paranoidvik for your kind words of appreciation. :) It gives us immense pleasure when GMAT community gets benefited from our posts :)

This question is a 700+ level question. :) So pat yourself for getting it correct. But at the same time, you took more than 2 minutes to answer it correctly. So you should spend the time learning from this question not just the concept but also the approach. Ask yourself - why did I take longer to answer this question? Why could I not spot the voice difference between choices C and E. In fact this is the key difference between the two close choices. From the meaning of the sentence you should have figured out that there are two things that the author talks about - so dogged was something, so persistent was something. And hence the requirement of making them parallel. So you should definitely introspect why you got tangled in these two choices.

Now coming to ellipsis in this question - There are two official questions in this post itself in which we see such parallelism. Now is such ellipsis application very prevalent - I would say no. But its worth noting such usages down so that you are not stumped by them if you see such usage in the exam environment. From ellipsis standpoint, I suggest you review our article on ellipsis in detail if you have not already done so. :)

Regards,
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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkin's investigations of the garment industry  [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2014, 01:27
I have gone through all the mails posted by people in the above posts.

However I am still not clear why the correct option E actually does not use "and" in between the 2 parts of the sentence (So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, AND so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform).

Without the use of "and", option E really sounds very strange. So is there a grammar rule that someone can help me with, that is working in option E.
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New post 17 Aug 2014, 03:59
icandy wrote:
Like many SC Q's this is a direct pick up from NY Times

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A965958260

E is correct.

As goalsnr said, So X, So Y that Z is perfectly correct. Other wise NY Times would not use it.


The NYT statement is as follows:
So dogged were her investigations of the garment industry, and so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that she was first recruited by Gov. Al Smith, and later by Gov. Franklin D. Roosevelt, to work within New York State government, rather than against it.

"and" is missing in option E. How can it be correct?

@mikemcgarry, please help...
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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkin's investigations of the garment industry  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Sep 2014, 05:50
Hi guys,

I actually got this question on a GMATPrep CAT and unfortunately had an error.

Now I directly saw the 'So X, so Y' structure, but thought (E) included an error, because it had "her" referring back to "Frances Perkins' ". Now I thought that her can refer back to a noun/subject and while in this case it appears it is referring back to Frances Perkins, it is referring back to the possessive "Frances Perkins' ". Is this possible and in what cases can we use "she" and "her"?

Thanks!
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New post 09 Jan 2016, 23:07
3
This is supposed to be an adaptation of an excerpt from the New York Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/14/books ... -club.html

Quote:
So dogged were her investigations of the garment industry, and so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that she was first recruited by Gov. Al Smith, and later by Gov. Franklin D. Roosevelt, to work within New York State government, rather than against it.

Choice E that corresponds to the version in the magazine misses an important ‘and’ before ‘so’; otherwise E may be the best choice. All the same, a disappointing question because of the poor transcription form the creator of this question, incidentally, GMATPREP

Interesting to note Ron’s comments about this

Re: SC set 27 Question 17 So dogged were Frances Perkins investi

Quote:
RonPurewal wrote:

If it's a correct answer, it's a correct answer.

This is a really, really old problem (over 10 years old, if it's in "set 27"). The current GMAT won't test such oddly constructed sentences, so it's best to forget about this one altogether.

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New post 13 Feb 2016, 19:15
why the second clause contain no verb
I think
so persistent was
is better.

very strange pattern
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New post 14 Feb 2016, 03:44
thangvietnam wrote:
why the second clause contain no verb
I think
so persistent was
is better.

very strange pattern



You can find full explanation for that pattern here. I hope it helps.


http://gmatclub.com/forum/so-dogged-wer ... fl=similar
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New post 11 May 2016, 22:04
tushain wrote:
icandy wrote:
Like many SC Q's this is a direct pick up from NY Times

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A965958260

E is correct.

As goalsnr said, So X, So Y that Z is perfectly correct. Other wise NY Times would not use it.


The NYT statement is as follows:
So dogged were her investigations of the garment industry, and so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that she was first recruited by Gov. Al Smith, and later by Gov. Franklin D. Roosevelt, to work within New York State government, rather than against it.

"and" is missing in option E. How can it be correct?

mikemcgarry, please help...


I agree with you, there is the conjunction 'and' in the original sentence. Not sure how this sentence is correct.
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New post 27 Sep 2016, 12:52
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker.

A. and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, --> Wrong Structure: So X , and Y (missing "That")
B. and lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, so that --> Wrong Structure: So X , and Y, so that Z
C. her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that --> Structure is correct "So X, Y, that" but Y does not logically fit into sentence, also X and Y are not parallel
"So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that
"
D. lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent, --> "that" missing
E. so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that --> Correct structure: So X, so Y, that Z
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New post 16 Oct 2016, 01:54
hemant89 wrote:
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker.

A. and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, --> Wrong Structure: So X , and Y (missing "That")
B. and lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, so that --> Wrong Structure: So X , and Y, so that Z
C. her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that --> Structure is correct "So X, Y, that" but Y does not logically fit into sentence, also X and Y are not parallel
"So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that
"
D. lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent, --> "that" missing
E. so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that --> Correct structure: So X, so Y, that Z


The answer choice 'E' is also wrong. The second 'so' will be preceded by 'and'. Check the NYT link.
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New post 26 Nov 2016, 04:14
IMO E is the best choice for this question but it also has an error pointed out in the comments above:
"her" in the second clause should refer to Francis Perkins,but actually "her" is referring to Francis Perkins' investigations in option e too.
So how is option e or this question itself not wrong? :|
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Re: So dogged were Frances Perkin's investigations of the garment industry  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jun 2017, 07:34
We need to maintain parallelism between the investigation and her lobbying , also we need that before Alfred E. Smith.
Option E has correct parallelism and correct placement of that.
Correct idiom is So.........That
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New post 10 Aug 2017, 02:07
I got this question and chose C because option E had so again. I wasn't aware of the idiom So X, So Y ...that

My question here is what the question is testing? I don't think it is just the So....that idiom....

Any suggestions/?
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New post 15 Aug 2017, 09:50
So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker.

A. and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent,

',' used to join IC( Alfred E...... social worker) with IC(her lobbying...persistent) : Incorrect
',and' used to join DC(so dogged...industry) with IC (her lobbying...persistent) : Incorrect


B. and lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, so that

',and' used to join DC(so dogged...industry) with IC (her lobbying...persistent) : Incorrect[/color]

C. her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that

"her" works as adjective modifying ' lobbying' ; noun phrase "her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent" wrongly modifies preceding clause. Incorrect

D. lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent,

wrong modification

E. so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that

So X , So Y , That.... Correct



experts pls comment
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New post 13 May 2019, 00:39
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egmat wrote:
sujit2k7 wrote:
I think this one of the weird GMAT prep questions... no good explanations in any of the forums... if some one can really go on and dissect it rather than just telling E looks better parallel than others , than KUDOS are waiting for him

So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker.

A. and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent,
B. and lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, so that
C. her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that
D. lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent,
E. so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that


My question is what is take away from this question. any similar examples.
Do we not need the 'AND' before second SO.
Do we not need the verb in construction E (is ellipses work here..can some one so another example )


Since the questions are pertaining to the structure of the correct choice, I will only take that one in my response.

So dogged were Frances Perkins’ investigations of the garment industry, so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker.

I will simplify this sentence for my analysis:

So dogged were FP's investigations, so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government.

There are certain specific things about the structure of this sentence.

1: Inverted Structure


If this sentence were written in a more straightforward way, it would be as follows:
FP's investigations of the garment industry were so dogged that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government.
(notice that I have not considered the second element in this sentence for the sake of explanation. I will consider that in my analysis below:) )
Now to come up with the sentence in question, simply flip the order of the SV in the first clause in the simple sentence above. This will get us to the following version:
So dogged were FP's investigations, that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government.

2: Idiom used


Let's take the simplified version of the sentence (I will show both inverted and straight sentences)
- FP's investigations of the garment industry were so dogged that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government.
- So dogged were FP's investigations, that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government.
So as you can see, the idiom that has been used here is "So x that Y".

3: Two entities connected using a comma


I understand that there are two elements in the list but they have been connected using a comma. Let's consider the straight version of this sentence:
- FP's investigations of the garment industry were so dogged AND her lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government.
In this version I would have added the second element using an AND.

Now let's consider the inverted structure.
- So dogged were FP's investigations AND so persistent was her lobbying for wage and hour reform that AES and FDR recruited Perkins to work within the government.
Here also I would have added the second element using an AND

So why is there is no AND and a COMMA instead - I do not know. I can almost say that it is a style of writing and certainly not a common style of writing.

4: Ellipsis


As you can see, the second element does not contain a verb. In fact ellipsis is at play here. Here is another sentence with similar ellipsis at play:

Of all the wild animals in their area, none was more useful to the Delaware tribes than the Virginia white- tailed deer: it was a source of meat, and its hide was used for clothing, its antlers and bones were used for tools, and its sinews and gut were used for bindings and glue.

    Notice the verb "was used" in the first element.
    Notice no verb in the second and third elements. But here ellipsis is at play.

Take away

- Follow the process for solving the question. Eliminate choices on deterministic errors and then consider errors such as punctuation etc. Yes, while you are preparing for GMAT, you must understand the construction of the correct sentence, but when you are in test environment, be confident of your approach and do not second guess yourself if questions such as these appear. :)

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Payal


Hi, Can any expert clarify my query?

According to rule of pronouns, objective pronoun must refer to the logical referent in the sentence. I've eliminated A, C and E option because of lack of logical referent of the "her" as i could not see the Frances perkin (herself, rather than her investigation) in the entire sentence.
Thanks in anticipation.
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New post 13 May 2019, 02:19
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The 'her' in 'her lobbying ' is possessive pronoun and not object pronoun. 'her' is an adjective and the 'lobbying' is its noun. Unlike'him' for which we have two pronouns such as 'him' for object case and 'his' for the possessive case, we have only 'her' for both the cases. You may see, the possessive 'Frances Perkins’ investigations fit in smugly with 'her lobbying". E is the best fit.

Can you please reason now?
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New post 13 May 2019, 02:27
Daadh,
Still I can't understand, can you please explain with another simple sentence.
Thanks.

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New post 13 May 2019, 03:32
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Raxit
I admired her hairstyle; here 'her' is not a pronoun but a modifier modifying the object 'style'. The thing is that 'her' is a special case, as we do not have a different word for marking a possessive adjective. Therefore, the context decides whether 'her' is an object pronoun or possessive pronoun.

However, this is not the case with other possessive pronouns and object pronouns.

I hated him; In fact, I hated his gross mannerism. In the second case, 'him' cannot replace the possessive 'his'. So also in all other cases such as 'me and my'; 'us and 'our; 'you and your'; 'it and its'; 'them and their'; etc.
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