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The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari

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The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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The Official Guide for GMAT Review, 10th Edition, 2003

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 104
Page: 668

The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely
(B) and meat was rare
(C) with meat as rare
(D) meat a rarity
(E) with meat as a rarity
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

Last edited by hazelnut on 30 Nov 2017, 23:23, edited 2 times in total.
Edited the question.
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 20 Apr 2010, 16:30
manoharpln wrote:
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely
(B) and meat was rare
(C) with meat as rare
(D) meat a rarity
(E) with meat as a rarity

OA:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
D


Double-check the answer. My book says E
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 20 Apr 2010, 23:56
lagomez wrote:
manoharpln wrote:
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.
(A) and meat rarely
(B) and meat was rare
(C) with meat as rare
(D) meat a rarity
(E) with meat as a rarity

OA:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
E


Double-check the answer. My book says E


Thanks for correcting....It is E..
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2010, 06:47
I remember seeing the question before. What's the source. I'd be interested in the explanation.
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2010, 08:01
The source is OG 10 and 1000SC...
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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Hey All,

No one bothered to explain this one on here, so I figured I'd weigh in, since it's a quick one.

The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

Obviously, this is a parallelism issue. Every list needs to have "and" at the end. You can't use "and" twice, unless the second to last item in the list is a compound. For example: "I like all kinds of sandwiches: reuben, turkey, pastrami, peanut butter and jelly, and veggie." But in that case, there are two nouns in that second to last entry (peanut butter and jelly). We don't have that here, so there's no justification for having two "and"s.

(A) and meat rarely
PROBLEM: No and allowed.

(B) and meat was rare
PROBLEM: Again.

(C) with meat as rare
PROBLEM: You can't just say "meat as rare". As sets up either a comparison ("meat as rare as an uncooked log.") or some type of prepositional phrase ("meat as metaphor for life...").

(D) meat a rarity
PROBLEM: We need some segue from the last item in the list.

(E) with meat as a rarity
ANSWER: We get the prepositional phrase. It's a bit odd, since it's modifying something that came a long time ago, but it's still the best choice.

Hope that helps!

-tommy
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 06 May 2010, 23:39
Tommy,

I think there a list can have OR or AND in the end and not just AND as per your opinion. If there is list of options to choose from then OR is correct.

Please check.

TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

No one bothered to explain this one on here, so I figured I'd weigh in, since it's a quick one.

The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

Obviously, this is a parallelism issue. Every list needs to have "and" at the end. You can't use "and" twice, unless the second to last item in the list is a compound. For example: "I like all kinds of sandwiches: reuben, turkey, pastrami, peanut butter and jelly, and veggie." But in that case, there are two nouns in that second to last entry (peanut butter and jelly). We don't have that here, so there's no justification for having two "and"s.

(A) and meat rarely
PROBLEM: No and allowed.

(B) and meat was rare
PROBLEM: Again.

(C) with meat as rare
PROBLEM: You can't just say "meat as rare". As sets up either a comparison ("meat as rare as an uncooked log.") or some type of prepositional phrase ("meat as metaphor for life...").

(D) meat a rarity
PROBLEM: We need some segue from the last item in the list.

(E) with meat as a rarity
ANSWER: We get the prepositional phrase. It's a bit odd, since it's modifying something that came a long time ago, but it's still the best choice.

Hope that helps!

-tommy

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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 07 May 2010, 03:16
there is no need for any explanation after Tommy`s, doing it just for myself :)


E

there are three points in a row. before the last one we can see the conjunction "and". So all options with another "and" are out.
rarity is much better than rare when you are trying to describe a noun.
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 07 May 2010, 03:22
serhio,

This is not my question. Please read carefully what I have asked Tommy.


serhio wrote:
there is no need for any explanation after Tommy`s, doing it just for myself :)


E

there are three points in a row. before the last one we can see the conjunction "and". So all options with another "and" are out.
rarity is much better than rare when you are trying to describe a noun.

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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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Hey Ykaiim,

"Or" is another parallelism marker. But for what it's worth, "or" sets up alternatives, not a list, per se. But yes, if you want to discuss alternatives, then "or" must come before the final term in the parallel structure.

Thanks for making sure that got mentioned!

-t
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 31 Jul 2010, 14:44
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

No one bothered to explain this one on here, so I figured I'd weigh in, since it's a quick one.

The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

Obviously, this is a parallelism issue. Every list needs to have "and" at the end. You can't use "and" twice, unless the second to last item in the list is a compound. For example: "I like all kinds of sandwiches: reuben, turkey, pastrami, peanut butter and jelly, and veggie." But in that case, there are two nouns in that second to last entry (peanut butter and jelly). We don't have that here, so there's no justification for having two "and"s.

Hope that helps!

-tommy


You can interpret the sentence as if there were two lists. In that case, 2 "ands" were allowed. Actually, the best answer would be:

The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarianvegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and rarely mexican.


Two lists, two ands.
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 01 Aug 2010, 11:04
E... the list gets over, hence you need a "with"..

This is an OG question
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 28 May 2012, 12:23
Guys, in adittion to the posted replies, I would like to add that rare is an adjective, therefore it needs an additional noun to make the comparison work.
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 18 Dec 2016, 20:43
manoharpln wrote:
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely -- hold
(B) and meat was rare -- sound as if meat was scarce,eliminate
(C) with meat as rare -- sounds like an open-end comparison as rare..,eliminate
(D) meat a rarity -- just weird,a stand alone after comma but not in the list
(E) with meat as a rarity -- with rarely meat may be better to my ear.As a rarity sounds as if meat=rarity ?!


Hi sayantanc2k and all,
IMHO,option A could read
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and the diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was meat rarely.
The last "and" is the conjunction here.Is my reasoning flawed?

Again,I accept that the correct choice is E,but more elaboration would be appreciate especially for how ",with meat as a rarity" is proper placed in the context and how my reasoning flaw.
Thanks :-D :-D
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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sleepynut wrote:
manoharpln wrote:
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely -- hold
(B) and meat was rare -- sound as if meat was scarce,eliminate
(C) with meat as rare -- sounds like an open-end comparison as rare..,eliminate
(D) meat a rarity -- just weird,a stand alone after comma but not in the list
(E) with meat as a rarity -- with rarely meat may be better to my ear.As a rarity sounds as if meat=rarity ?!


Hi sayantanc2k and all,
IMHO,option A could read
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and the diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was meat rarely.
The last "and" is the conjunction here.Is my reasoning flawed?

Again,I accept that the correct choice is E,but more elaboration would be appreciate especially for how ",with meat as a rarity" is proper placed in the context and how my reasoning flaw.
Thanks :-D :-D


Your reasoning would be appropriate if there were another dash (instead of comma) after "meal cakes" to separate out the list of vegetarian diet - there would then be no ambiguity in the usage of the second "and". Moreover, ideally "rarely" should be preceding "meat" (largely vegetarian and rarely meat) - nonetheless there would still be a parallelism issue between "vegetarian" and "meat" - the first one is an adjective whereas the latter a noun.

The modifier "with meat as a rarity" is somewhat awkward, but this modifier can be considered an adverbial modifier rather than a noun modifier, and hence the placement is flexible.
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The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 30 Dec 2017, 00:53
sayantanc2k wrote:
Your reasoning would be appropriate if there were another dash (instead of comma) after "meal cakes" to separate out the list of vegetarian diet - there would then be no ambiguity in the usage of the second "and". Moreover, ideally "rarely" should be preceding "meat" (largely vegetarian and rarely meat) - nonetheless there would still be a parallelism issue between "vegetarian" and "meat" - the first one is an adjective whereas the latter a noun.

The modifier "with meat as a rarity" is somewhat awkward, but this modifier can be considered an adverbial modifier rather than a noun modifier, and hence the placement is flexible.


Hi sayantanc2k,

Thanks for the explanation. Very helpful. I have a few doubts in choice E.

1) Rarity is a noun, so it could be an object of preposition "as". "As" preposition means in the role of/in the capacity of. What would be the meaning of "meat as a rarity"?

2) As you mentioned "with modifier" is adverbial in nature. The verb of the main clause is "was", how do we say "with modifier" is modifying the verb "was"?

Thank you very much for your help sayantanc2k
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 01 Jan 2018, 21:13
manoharpln wrote:
The Official Guide for GMAT Review, 10th Edition, 2003

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 104
Page: 668

The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely
(B) and meat was rare
(C) with meat as rare
(D) meat a rarity
(E) with meat as a rarity


there is a pattern
main clause +with+noun+noun modifier

in this pattern, with+noun+noun modifier work ad an adverb to modify the whole main clause.
choice E fit this pattern and is correct
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 03 Jan 2018, 04:09
i find option "a" more appropriate because i think i can say was largely vegetarian and rarely meat ? please explain
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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New post 13 Jan 2018, 08:36
manoharpln wrote:
The Official Guide for GMAT Review, 10th Edition, 2003

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 104
Page: 668

The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely
(B) and meat was rare
(C) with meat as rare
(D) meat a rarity
(E) with meat as a rarity


Hello mikemcgarry,

Good day to you!

Please throw some light on my below doubt.

In the given sentence, "The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely", I understand that we have a "—" that is used to provide the list of items. Since there is no second "—" in the sentence it means that all the items mentioned after "—" are part of the list. So shouldn't we use a noun after the last "and" (highlighted) because all the items are a noun.

Why is the usage of prepositional phrase — with meat as a rarity — correct here?

Please elucidate.

Regards
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari [#permalink]

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gmatexam439 wrote:
Hello mikemcgarry,

Good day to you!

Please throw some light on my below doubt.

In the given sentence, "The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely", I understand that we have a "—" that is used to provide the list of items. Since there is no second "—" in the sentence it means that all the items mentioned after "—" are part of the list. So shouldn't we use a noun after the last "and" (highlighted) because all the items are a noun.

Why is the usage of prepositional phrase — with meat as a rarity — correct here?

Please elucidate.

Regards

Dear gmatexam439,

Good day to you, my friend! I'm happy to respond. :-)

This is another truly brilliant SC problem from the official GMAT. Like many more difficult questions, this one is designed to frustrate simply mechanical thinking. Language is not mathematics, and patterns in language that usually apply often can change in exceptional circumstances for logical or rhetorical purposes. If you are too attached to a tight literal understanding of the rules, you will be befuddled by one hard SC questions after another.

It's perfectly true one use of the em-dash is to set off a list of examples. It's perfectly true that, under ordinary condition, a list is just a collection of nouns in parallel, so the last element would be a noun. That's often the case, but not always. Sometimes, logic requires that we add some kind of comment at the end of a list--its source, its reputed veracity, or a notable exception.
Some religions recounts cases of humans who did not undergo physical death--Enoch and Elijah, according to the Hebrew Bible.
Some political parties claim objective qualities for their views--fair and balanced, as FOX News purports.

This is the way the preposition "with meat as a rarity" is used--an exception that clarifies the nature of the list.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetari   [#permalink] 16 Jan 2018, 13:53

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