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The Official Guide for GMAT Review, 10th Edition, 2003

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 104
Page: 668
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely
(B) and meat was rare
(C) with meat as rare
(D) meat a rarity
(E) with meat as a rarity

Hello

Good day to you!

Please throw some light on my below doubt.

In the given sentence, "The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely", I understand that we have a "—" that is used to provide the list of items. Since there is no second "—" in the sentence it means that all the items mentioned after "—" are part of the list. So shouldn't we use a noun after the last "and" (highlighted) because all the items are a noun.

Why is the usage of prepositional phrase — with meat as a rarity — correct here?

Please elucidate.

Regards

Thanks for reply in that way. Before I saw your answer, I couldn't understand but when you rewrite the main sentence I understand clearly.
If you put the sentence:

The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and the diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times with meat as a rarity.

It really makes sense now :)
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Quote:
The Official Guide for GMAT Review, 10th Edition, 2003

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 104
Page: 668

The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely
(B) and meat was rare
(C) with meat as rare
(D) meat a rarity
(E) with meat as a rarity

AjiteshArun
BunuelWannabe
Is it only because the comma? Otherwise would be a correct option?
I went through the thread and read the posts that say that two ands cannot be used together. I can now see where you are coming from on this.

I don't agree with those posts. The comma is not a problem, and two ands should be fine, in the sense that they are possible in those positions.

The first option ends up saying:
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was (1) largely vegetarian... and (2) meat rarely.
Here the second item in the list does link to the diet (the diet was X and Y), but the structure it leads to is unidiomatic (the diet was meat rarely).

The second option ends up saying:
(1) The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian... and (2) meat was rare.
Here the second item in the list is not clearly linked to the first, because it is a separate clause. That makes it sound as if the second item in the list is not continuing the thought introduced by the first.

The diet was veg and meat was rare.

This sounds as if we giving the reader two separate facts.

I believed that the sentence is presenting two facts only and thus chose B. For this reason i eliminated E which i thought is more or less similar sounding to C.

So, how do i ensure that i don't fall for wrong meaning(sentence intent).??
Can the option E be chosen based purely on grammatical structure(read technical reasons) as has been pointed by experts, even if it is about facts.??
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The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely

This one does not follow parallelism. The correct parallelism should be A, B, C, and D or A, B, C and D, and E. But based on the meaning, this problem should follow the first one, but it fails to do so.

(B) and meat was rare

[color=#ffff0000]I chose this one as my answer because I thought they could be separate sentences. Grammatically, it is correct. However, meaning has changed. B is saying that meat is scarce but the intended meaning is that they seldom eat meat.[/color]

(C) with meat as rare

Notice that the "as" here means comparison, not "be" something (like the one in E), then there should be something else to be compared i.e. meat needs to be compared to something else: meat is as rare as... but we cannot find anything to be compared with because all other veggies are rather prevalent.

(D) meat a rarity

This would be an appositive, and appositive should describe a noun before it. For example: She is Emily, a beautiful girl. Here, "a beautiful girl" is an appositive and modifies "Emily". Let's come back to the problem. Since "meat a rarity" is appositive, it must modify a noun before it as well. However, the noun before it is not meat. Therefore, wrong.

(E) with meat as a rarity

Yes, a comma before preposition is allowed. And here, rarity refers to meat.
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c,d,e on what bases did we eliminate these?
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c,d,e on what bases did we eliminate these?

I think this is explained in detail in many posts on previous two pages. Please re-read the thread. Hope it helps.
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The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

The list is connected by commas and "and", so the answer could not repeat "and"

(A) and meat rarely wrong because of above reason
(B) and meat was rare wrong because of above reason
(C) with meat as rare as should go with a clause
(D) meat a rarity no connecting word
(E) with meat as a rarity good enough
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Quote:
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely
(B) and meat was rare
(C) with meat as rare
(D) meat a rarity
(E) with meat as a rarity
Request Expert Reply:
Hi honorable experts,
MartyTargetTestPrep, GMATNinja, GMATGuruNY, AjiteshArun, VeritasPrepHailey, BrightOutlookJenn,
What role does the highlighted part play? Is it modifier or anything else? If it is modifier, which one is modified by it?
I'm passing hard time to comprehend it!
Thanks_-
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Quote:
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely
(B) and meat was rare
(C) with meat as rare
(D) meat a rarity
(E) with meat as a rarity
Request Expert Reply:
Hi honorable experts,
MartyTargetTestPrep, GMATNinja, GMATGuruNY, AjiteshArun, VeritasPrepHailey, BrightOutlookJenn,
What role does the highlighted part play? Is it modifier or anything else? If it is modifier, which one is modified by it?
I'm passing hard time to comprehend it!
Thanks_-
I'm eagerly expecting feedback from my honorable experts! Appreciating your help, experts.
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VeritasKarishma mam kindly explain how E is correct
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The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely
(B) and meat was rare
(C) with meat as rare
(D) meat a rarity
(E) with meat as a rarity


The Official Guide for GMAT Review, 10th Edition, 2003

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 104
Page: 668

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1984/07/09/the-original-olympiads

One month before the Games began, the contestants arrived for more training in the several buildings erected for that purpose in the nearby town of Elis. As the Games progressed, trainers grew in importance. They were knowledgeable about such matters as exercise regimens, physiotherapy, and muscle physiology, and some had firm ideas about diet. That of the ordinary Greek in the early days was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, with meat as a rarity. Some trainers later favored a heavy meat diet for their athletes, but one runner won the sprint on a diet of dried figs.

Look at the non underlined part first:

The diet ... was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, ...

The list talks about what all constituted the vegetarian aspect: A, B, C and D.
The list is complete. So options (A) and (B) which seem to add meat to the list too by putting an "and" before it are incorrect.

As an aside, the sentence mentions that on rare occasions, meat was also served. This is done with the help of a prepositional modifier.

"with meat as a rarity"

"as" used with a noun gives you the role or purpose of the noun.

e.g. They appointed Kelly as the manager.

Then you need a noun "rarity", not "rare" (which is an adjective). Hence (C) is incorrect.

We do use adjectives with "as" in comparisons - "the meat was as rare as ..."

Option (D) gives "meat a rarity" joined with a comma. You can join a noun with a comma to give an appositive (rename the noun appearing before). Here, that is not taking place so (D) is not correct.

Answer (E)
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VeritasKarishma
manoharpln
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

(A) and meat rarely
(B) and meat was rare
(C) with meat as rare
(D) meat a rarity
(E) with meat as a rarity


The Official Guide for GMAT Review, 10th Edition, 2003

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 104
Page: 668

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1984/07/09/the-original-olympiads

One month before the Games began, the contestants arrived for more training in the several buildings erected for that purpose in the nearby town of Elis. As the Games progressed, trainers grew in importance. They were knowledgeable about such matters as exercise regimens, physiotherapy, and muscle physiology, and some had firm ideas about diet. That of the ordinary Greek in the early days was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, with meat as a rarity. Some trainers later favored a heavy meat diet for their athletes, but one runner won the sprint on a diet of dried figs.

Look at the non underlined part first:

The diet ... was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, ...

The list talks about what all constituted the vegetarian aspect: A, B, C and D.
The list is complete. So options (A) and (B) which seem to add meat to the list too by putting an "and" before it are incorrect.

As an aside, the sentence mentions that on rare occasions, meat was also served. This is done with the help of a prepositional modifier.

"with meat as a rarity"

"as" used with a noun gives you the role or purpose of the noun.

e.g. They appointed Kelly as the manager.

Then you need a noun "rarity", not "rare" (which is an adjective). Hence (C) is incorrect.

We do use adjectives with "as" in comparisons - "the meat was as rare as ..."

Option (D) gives "meat a rarity" joined with a comma. You can join a noun with a comma to give an appositive (rename the noun appearing before). Here, that is not taking place so (D) is not correct.

Answer (E)

VeritasKarishma Mam Thank you so much for indepth explanation as always....Now its cent percent clear :)
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AjiteshArun
BunuelWannabe
Is it only because the comma? Otherwise would be a correct option?
I went through the thread and read the posts that say that two ands cannot be used together. I can now see where you are coming from on this.

I don't agree with those posts. The comma is not a problem, and two ands should be fine, in the sense that they are possible in those positions.

The first option ends up saying:
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was (1) largely vegetarian... and (2) meat rarely.
Here the second item in the list does link to the diet (the diet was X and Y), but the structure it leads to is unidiomatic (the diet was meat rarely).

The second option ends up saying:
(1) The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian... and (2) meat was rare.
Here the second item in the list is not clearly linked to the first, because it is a separate clause. That makes it sound as if the second item in the list is not continuing the thought introduced by the first.

The diet was veg and meat was rare.

This sounds as if we giving the reader two separate facts.

Hi AjiteshArun

I was attracted to option A.
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely.

Quote:
The first option ends up saying:
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was (1) largely vegetarian... and (2) meat rarely.
Here the second item in the list does link to the diet (the diet was X and Y), but the structure it leads to is unidiomatic (the diet was meat rarely).

1. Could you please explain why it leads to unidiomatic? (sorry , if I am missing some easy point)
When I tried to understand the meaning, I found :
Diet is vegetarian largely and meat rarely.
- vegetarian and meat-both nouns
- I can say: I eat vegetarian , or I can say I eat meat, so why not vegetarian and meat can be parallel?

2. How to write the sentence idiomatic by keeping the same meaning?
Diet is vegetarian largely and <?? > rarely.


Please suggest AjiteshArun

Thanks!
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Hi mSKR,

No, you're not missing some easy point. Idiomatic usage is hard. :)

I'm not sure how the GMAT would fix this issue while keeping the and, but if I had to give it a shot, I'd probably go for something like (2) below:

1. The diet is meat rarely.
2. The diet rarely includes meat.

So "the diet was largely vegetarian and rarely included meat" may be one way to fix that option. Don't worry too much about this though. Tweaking official questions like this is a risky thing to do.
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AjiteshArun
Hi mSKR,

No, you're not missing some easy point. Idiomatic usage is hard. :)

I'm not sure how the GMAT would fix this issue while keeping the and, but if I had to give it a shot, I'd probably go for something like (2) below:

1. The diet is meat rarely.
2. The diet rarely includes meat.

So "the diet was largely vegetarian and rarely included meat" may be one way to fix that option. Don't worry too much about this though. Tweaking official questions like this is a risky thing to do.

Thanks AjiteshArun

I have one doubt:
In general ( Sorry doubt arose from other post)
Can rather than/instead be used as parallel markers in the same way ( and )?
I think should be , but I don't know why others mentioned can not.

Please give expert opinion.
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The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, with meat as a rarity.

In the above sentence, the list is modifying the notion that the Greek diet in classical times was largely vegetarian. Thereafter, we have been provided with the examples of the vegetarian things that were commonly consumed in that era. How does the inclusion of meat in the list that exemplifies vegetarian staples makes sense?

Thanks in advance for your help!
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GMATNinja KarishmaB
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, with meat as a rarity.

In the above sentence, the list is modifying the notion that the Greek diet in classical times was largely vegetarian. Thereafter, we have been provided with the examples of the vegetarian things that were commonly consumed in that era. How does the inclusion of meat in the list that exemplifies vegetarian staples makes sense?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Option (E) does not include meat in the list. Only options (A) and (B) do that with the use of "and"

The diet ... was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, ...

The list talks about what all constituted the vegetarian aspect: A, B, C and D.
The list is complete.

As an aside, the sentence mentions that on rare occasions, meat was also served. This is done with the help of a prepositional modifier.

"with meat as a rarity" - This is not a part of the list of "largely veg diet".

Hence (E) is correct.
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NareshGargMBA
GMATNinja KarishmaB
The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian—vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, with meat as a rarity.

In the above sentence, the list is modifying the notion that the Greek diet in classical times was largely vegetarian. Thereafter, we have been provided with the examples of the vegetarian things that were commonly consumed in that era. How does the inclusion of meat in the list that exemplifies vegetarian staples makes sense?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Hello NareshGargMBA,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, the sentence says that the diet was largely vegetarian, meaning that it was mostly, but not entirely, vegetarian. This is why the phrase "with meat as a rarity" is used - to convey that meat was eaten, but only rarely.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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