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shanks2020

Hi AndrewN

Thanks for taking time out of your vacation times.
I agree to your logic for question 4.
But for question 2, while i agree to your explanation, but that is exactly what makes the answer not suitable. Per your words - The part above that mentions earlier or later that I have not drawn attention to is the very point that the two theories take a separate stance o - this is also my though. They take a separate stance on it. But the question asks for "COMMON" concern?
So two points here - 1st - they are not common
2nd - the passage does not mention them as "concerns". They are just shown as what you mentioned "different stance" or i would say belief. So my point is that deifferent belief or stance can not be equated to concern.
That is why, more than the answer, i am not very much satisfied with the question. Hence, even wondering if it is an official question also or not.
Hello again, shanks2020. I think I see the problem now. Concern in this context means something akin to topic, so the question is asking us to find what the two theories are both discussing or regarding. That answer comes from the very line I quoted earlier, the opening line of the passage: scientists discuss the point... Even though their opinions diverge within that topic, they are still discussing the same general idea.

I hope that helps.

- Andrew
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I think this is a high-quality question and the explanation isn't clear enough, please elaborate. I was confused between Option B, D and E
I eliminated D because it is never said that morality is the basis of the human social pattern.
I eliminated E because even though social agreements are mentioned, social interactions are not.
Is that the right explanation?
Is that the right explanation?
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I think this is a poor-quality question and I don't agree with the explanation.
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Bunuel GMATNinja

The passage states that one of two theories generally prevails. Nowhere in the paragraph is one theory given more importance than the other.

For that reason, why is C wrong for question 3? A sounds great but does nothing to reconcile one theory prevailing over the other.
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In question 4, option A is rejected as This option is tempting, but the first paragraph does not discuss a desire of societies to recondition themselves, and in fact implies that true reconditioning is impossible.

From where can we infer that paragraph 1 implies that true reconditioning is impossible??

Bunuel
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A. Nothing mentioned to infer that societies, in general, do something in order to resist. "Societies" and "resist" are key words to me for eliminating this answer choice.

B. The first part is just a flipped statemenf of "the raw violence and competition found in “nature"". But wait, we need to support the second part, and we can done that with "as a thin crust on a violently churning interior". "Thin crust ON" is key here to supporting the second part.

C. "Must be transform", wait a second, nobady said that something needs to be transformed. "To live peacefully", any part of the passage supports this. "Must be transform" and "To live peacefully" are the key words.

D. This is very close, but not. If it hadn´t stated "Human beings", other would have the case. Because the passage refers to "Human morality" not "Human being". "Human being" the key word here.

E. This is clearly paragraph two, the other theory.­
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I think this is a high-quality question and the explanation isn't clear enough, please elaborate.
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Piscine15
In question 4, option A is rejected as This option is tempting, but the first paragraph does not discuss a desire of societies to recondition themselves, and in fact implies that true reconditioning is impossible.

From where can we infer that paragraph 1 implies that true reconditioning is impossible??

Bunuel
­

Hi. For Question #4,
A is focusing on the societies and not nature. 
  • (a) This choice focuses on societies and introduces the idea of reconditioning, which the passage does not support.
  • (b) This is the correct answer as it directly reflects the passage's depiction of veneer theory, where morality is seen as a thin crust trying to contain the violent and competitive nature.
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IMO I feel Choice E is a better choice compared to Choice B.

Regarding Question 2: "According to the passage, the common concern of the two theories presented in the passage is"

Original Answer (OA):
Choice B - Whether a sense of fairness should be considered an earlier or more recent development in the evolution of human beings.

While Option B discusses the timing of when a sense of fairness arose, the passage's main concern is not explicitly about timing. The reference to humans sharing an "innate sense of fairness" with other species highlights a shared evolutionary trait but does not focus on pinpointing the exact timing of its development.

Though the passage states: "...humans possess an innate sense of fairness common to other species of a shared evolutionary past,"
this statement supports the idea that fairness is innate and present across species. However, it doesn't directly address the timing aspect of when this characteristic evolved. Instead, it provides evidence that fairness is an inherent feature shared across species.

For the above reasons, I strongly feel that Choice E is worded better than Choice B.

Choice E: Whether morality is innate, or the result of a series of social interactions and agreements.

The passage discusses two theories:

1. Veneer Theory: This theory posits that the "sense of fairness" or morality is a later development, emerging due to societal interactions and agreements. It suggests that morality is a thin layer covering inherent human tendencies for violence and competition

2. Innate Theory: This theory suggests that a "sense of fairness" is innate, supported by evidence from primate behavior. The author uses examples from other primates to establish that this sense of fairness is not unique to humans but is shared across species, indicating it is a fundamental, innateThe comparison with primate species serves to establish that this feature is widespread, not to argue precisely when it developed. The evidence supports the idea that fairness is an intrinsic aspect of species, rather than arising solely from social constructs.

Hence, IMO Choice E makes more sense to me than Choice B,
as it directly addresses the core issue presented in the passage: whether morality is an inherent part of human nature or a product of social evolution.

Bunuel
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Answer to question2 should be E not B

E. Whether morality is innate, or the result of a series of social interactions and agreements.

Explanation:
The passage discusses two competing theories about the origins of morality, specifically a sense of fairness, in human beings:

Veneer theory suggests morality is a late, social construct (arising from agreements in human societies) that covers innate violence and competition.
The other theory posits that morality is innate, shared with other primates as part of a shared evolutionary past.
Thus, the central question both theories address is whether morality (or fairness) is an inherent part of human nature or a product of social constructs. This aligns with answer E.
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Hi. I can see your point, though AndrewN above has an explanation why B is the answer: https://gmatclub.com/forum/v03-35-v03-3 ... l#p2685911

However, I felt the E needed to be more incorrect and less based on the neance as it is a pain to give a black and white explanation (to me at least). so I have updated Option E in Question 2 it to be slightly more outside of the scope.
Shlokzanwar
Answer to question2 should be E not B

E. Whether morality is innate, or the result of a series of social interactions and agreements.

Explanation:
The passage discusses two competing theories about the origins of morality, specifically a sense of fairness, in human beings:

Veneer theory suggests morality is a late, social construct (arising from agreements in human societies) that covers innate violence and competition.
The other theory posits that morality is innate, shared with other primates as part of a shared evolutionary past.
Thus, the central question both theories address is whether morality (or fairness) is an inherent part of human nature or a product of social constructs. This aligns with answer E.
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I like the solution - it’s helpful.
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I did not quite understand the solution. "rules agreed upon society" vs "holds a sense of fairness to be as much a part of human "nature"

While I believe this option is an implication of what the passage says, option B is probably the more correct one as "late ... defined by set of rules" -> second theory must be earlier development ... a part of human "nature"
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Hi,

We need to choose the best conclusion that advocates of the second theory would draw from the evidence.
Option B merely summarizes the observations (orangutans and monkeys reacting to unfairness). It repeats evidence, but it does not explain why that evidence matters for the theory.

The second theory argues that a sense of fairness is:
  • innate
  • part of nature, not a late, socially agreed-upon rule
  • shared with other primates due to common evolutionary origins [ This directly leads us to Option A)]

Hope this helps!
donwalter1337
I did not quite understand the solution. "rules agreed upon society" vs "holds a sense of fairness to be as much a part of human "nature"

While I believe this option is an implication of what the passage says, option B is probably the more correct one as "late ... defined by set of rules" -> second theory must be earlier development ... a part of human "nature"
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I did not quite understand the question. This is a poor quality question. Based on the passage it cannot be inferred that nature "CANNOT be changed" So B cannot be correct.

"In this view morality is defined as a set of rules agreed upon by a society, permitting human beings to “rise above” the raw violence and competition found in “nature.” In certain circles this idea is known as “veneer theory,” because it posits human morality as a thin crust on a violently churning interior."

The lines in this para just define what morality is and mentions that this idea of morality is is called veneer theory because it posits....

it will be a stretch to infer anything about "NATURE" simply based on these lines. It could be possible that human nature can be changed by brute force but morality just wants you to rise above and not focus on the voilent and competitive nature
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This is a great question that’s helpful for learning.
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Hi Vivek1707 let me try to help

4. The passage suggests which of the following about the condition of “nature,” according to veneer theory?

As per the question we have to Infer about condition of "Nature" as per veneer theory. Inference can be true or must be true, since the word is suggest so we have to find which option is supported by information given in passage

(a) Societies agree to rules of morality in order to recondition themselves to resist the violence and competition of nature.- Not stated
(b) Nature is inherently violent and competitive and may be contained, but can not be changed.- Keep for now
(c) The violence and competition found in nature must be transformed by morality in order for humans to live peacefully.-Must be transformed is suggestion and not suggested by author
(d) Human beings constitute a thin crust living on the outside of a chaotic core of nature.- chaotic doesnt always mean violent
(e) Morality is as much a part of nature as violence and competition.- This is in 2nd para


So by elimination also, we are arriving at B, and if we look into the passage, this line permitting human beings to “rise above” the raw violence and competition found in “nature.” supports the B

Hope this helps
Vivek1707
I did not quite understand the question. This is a poor quality question. Based on the passage it cannot be inferred that nature "CANNOT be changed" So B cannot be correct.

"In this view morality is defined as a set of rules agreed upon by a society, permitting human beings to “rise above” the raw violence and competition found in “nature.” In certain circles this idea is known as “veneer theory,” because it posits human morality as a thin crust on a violently churning interior."

The lines in this para just define what morality is and mentions that this idea of morality is is called veneer theory because it posits....

it will be a stretch to infer anything about "NATURE" simply based on these lines. It could be possible that human nature can be changed by brute force but morality just wants you to rise above and not focus on the voilent and competitive nature
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