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chetan2u

I understood RSM can be arranged in 3 ! ways among the 63 people . Out of which only 1 order would be correct .

So total would be 66 ! ways in which 3 ! are the ways RSM is arranged .

But here i am confused about the division is it divided because out of the 66 ! ways only 1 is the correct arrangement for RSM ?
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chetan2u

I understood RSM can be arranged in 3 ! ways among the 63 people . Out of which only 1 order would be correct .

So total would be 66 ! ways in which 3 ! are the ways RSM is arranged .

But here i am confused about the division is it divided because out of the 66 ! ways only 1 is the correct arrangement for RSM ?

ok shelrod, we will solve it in other way..
lets see how many ways three places can be choosen for this three people out of 66 places.. it is 66C3... here we take combination and not permutation because we are taking selection and not arrangement of these three speakers..
remaining 63 can be arranged in 63!, and here arrangement makes a difference..
so ans becomes 66C3*63!=63!*66!/(63!*3*)=66!/3!...
yes we div by3! because only one arrangement out of 3! of RSM is valid..
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shelrod007
I not able to understand the solution on the Mangoosh blog ..

Over the course of a full-day seminar, 66 students must give short presentations. Most of the presentations are independent, but Sam’s presentation refers to something in Ruth’s, so Ruth must go before Sam; similarly, Matt’s presentation refers to something in Ruth’s and something in Sam’s, so Matt’s must come after both of those. These three presentations need not be consecutive with each other: whatever the order is, Ruth’s must come before the other two but not necessarily first of the 66, and sometime later, Matt must come after the other two but not necessarily last of all. The other 63 participants can present in any order. How many orders obey these constraints?

(A) 22!

(B) 63!

(C) 63!/3!

(D) 66!/3

(E) 66!/3!

Link : https://magoosh.com/gmat/2015/counting-practice-problems-for-the-gmat/

66! are the total number of ways . Total number of ways to arrange R,S,M = 3!= 6 , clearly one 6th of these arrangements will have RSM , other 1/6th will have RMS and so on ..

so the answer is 66!/6
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Quote:

ok shelrod, we will solve it in other way..
lets see how many ways three places can be choosen for this three people out of 66 places.. it is 66C3... here we take combination and not permutation because we are taking selection and not arrangement of these three speakers..
remaining 63 can be arranged in 63!, and here arrangement makes a difference..
so ans becomes 66C3*63!=63!*66!/(63!*3*)=66!/3!...
yes we div by3! because only one arrangement out of 3! of RSM is valid..

Why are we selecting 66C3 ? Won't this give all the combinations of RSM? I thought that there were constraints on RSM such that R has to go before S, before M?
I understand that the "other 63" can be arranged with 66! but I don't understand how 66C3 would satisfy the RSM conditions... Does 66C3 not give "the number of combinations that 3 people (RSM) can be chosen out of 66 people", which would mean that RSM, SRM, MSR etc. would be included within 66C3 ?

Thanks
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shelrod007
I not able to understand the solution on the Mangoosh blog ..

Over the course of a full-day seminar, 66 students must give short presentations. Most of the presentations are independent, but Sam’s presentation refers to something in Ruth’s, so Ruth must go before Sam; similarly, Matt’s presentation refers to something in Ruth’s and something in Sam’s, so Matt’s must come after both of those. These three presentations need not be consecutive with each other: whatever the order is, Ruth’s must come before the other two but not necessarily first of the 66, and sometime later, Matt must come after the other two but not necessarily last of all. The other 63 participants can present in any order. How many orders obey these constraints?

(A) 22!

(B) 63!

(C) 63!/3!

(D) 66!/3

(E) 66!/3!

Link : https://magoosh.com/gmat/2015/counting-practice-problems-for-the-gmat/

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shelrod007
I not able to understand the solution on the Mangoosh blog ..

Over the course of a full-day seminar, 66 students must give short presentations. Most of the presentations are independent, but Sam’s presentation refers to something in Ruth’s, so Ruth must go before Sam; similarly, Matt’s presentation refers to something in Ruth’s and something in Sam’s, so Matt’s must come after both of those. These three presentations need not be consecutive with each other: whatever the order is, Ruth’s must come before the other two but not necessarily first of the 66, and sometime later, Matt must come after the other two but not necessarily last of all. The other 63 participants can present in any order. How many orders obey these constraints?

(A) 22!

(B) 63!

(C) 63!/3!

(D) 66!/3

(E) 66!/3!

Link : https://magoosh.com/gmat/2015/counting-practice-problems-for-the-gmat/

Similar questions to practice:
7-people-a-b-c-d-e-f-and-g-go-to-a-movie-and-sit-180985.html
mother-mary-comes-to-me-86407.html (or: mary-and-joe-126407.html);
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meg-and-bob-are-among-the-5-participants-in-a-cycling-race-58095.html

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shelrod007
I not able to understand the solution on the Mangoosh blog ..

Over the course of a full-day seminar, 66 students must give short presentations. Most of the presentations are independent, but Sam’s presentation refers to something in Ruth’s, so Ruth must go before Sam; similarly, Matt’s presentation refers to something in Ruth’s and something in Sam’s, so Matt’s must come after both of those. These three presentations need not be consecutive with each other: whatever the order is, Ruth’s must come before the other two but not necessarily first of the 66, and sometime later, Matt must come after the other two but not necessarily last of all. The other 63 participants can present in any order. How many orders obey these constraints?

(A) 22!

(B) 63!

(C) 63!/3!

(D) 66!/3

(E) 66!/3!


ANOTHER APPROACH

first fix those 3 students in the required order

_ R_ S _ M _

Now we can choose 1 place out of 4 for the next student (say A) i.e 4C1 ways

_ A _ R _ S _ M _

For 5th student, we can choose from 5 places i.e 5C1 ways

Similiarly , for 66th student 66C1 ways

Therefore, total ways = 4C1 x 5C1 x......x66C1 = 66!/3!
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The key to solving the problem is getting the right combination
since we can arrange each of them in 66! ways
However with the given constraint
Ritu first before sam and matt
matt after ritu and sam
there is only one possible possiblity that being
ritu sam and matt
they can be arranged in 3!
which we cannot have therefore this is divided
Hence IMO 66!/3--> E
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