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555-605 Level|   Grammatical/Rhetorical Construction|                           
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I had one issue with answer choice C.

From my knowledge a semicolon is used to separate two independent clauses, which can stand alone.

In choice C however after the semi colon the words 'two-thirds of such mothers' is relating this clause back to the first clause and therefore is not independent.

Could someone please explain the gap in my understanding.

Thanks in advance !!

Hi! Merely the presence of such does not make a clause dependent.

Let's look at another construct:

Peter is hard-working. He will surely succeed in life.

Is the clause He will surely succeed in life a dependent clause because he in this clause refers to Peter in the previous clause? No.

The entire point about Independent clauses is that they can stand on their own, as complete sentences; of course content in one Independent clause may refer to content in another Independent clause (the way he is referring to Peter in another clause).

There are largely two ways in which dependent clauses are formed:
i) Using subordinate conjunctions (because/until/although etc.)
ii) Using relative pronouns (which/that/who/whom etc.)

You can watch our video for a quick introduction to Independent and Dependent clauses .

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses Independent and Dependent clauses, their application and examples in significant detail. If you or someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.
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Dear DmitryFarber GMATGuruNY AjiteshArun MartyTargetTestPrep VeritasPrepHailey,

Is "those mothers" in choice A. wrong because that phrase refers to mothers in the past?

What's the difference in meaning between "those mothers" in choice A. and "such mothers" in choice C.?
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varotkorn

SUCH mothers = the kind of mothers mentioned before
THOSE mothers = the EXACT SAME mothers mentioned before (the ones from 1975!)

The word "those" can work differently when we add a modifier. For instance, if I say "the teachers in our city earn more money than those in most large US cities," then THOSE refers only to TEACHERS, and we apply the modifier that follows (in most large US cities). But if I say "The teachers at my elementary school were paid well, but THOSE TEACHERS were more highly-trained than the average teacher," then THOSE TEACHERS is referring specifically to the teachers at my elementary school at the time in question.
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Hello GMATNinja, egmat, daagh, DmitryFarber, VeritasKarishma, mikemcgarry and other experts,
I had a query regarding the usage of while in option A. Since the original sentence tries to correlate the two data points, shouldn't we maintain that original intent and have a "while..", "even though..." or "with..." in the corrected version too? This was one of the reasons that made me choose answer option B over C. If not, how do we know which parts of the option-A are a part of the 'intended meaning' and should be retained and which not? Is there a general rule for this?

Also, this one is a very basic doubt, but does 'who' act in the same way as 'which' does, and attaches to the closest noun it can find? I read option B as 'there were about one-third of mothers with young children who worked outside the home'. Had we separated 'with young children' with a comma on both side, will this sentence imply the required meaning then? i.e.
..there were about one-third of mothers, with young children, who worked outside the home...
Will this have worked on GMAT?
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daagh
According to United States census data, while there was about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975, in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home.

If you are steadfast in your thinking, that ' working outside the home' should modify the mothers and not the children, and then you are good to the last.


(A) while there was about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975, in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home -- working outside modifies children

(B) there were about one-third of mothers with young children who worked outside the home in 1975; in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home -- young children who worked outside - is wrong

(C) in 1975 about one-third of mothers with young children worked outside the home; in 2000, almost two-thirds of such mothers were employed outside the home-- Only in C worked is the main verb for the mothers.-- correct choice.

(D) even though in 1975 there were about one-third of mothers with young children who worked outside the home, almost two-thirds of such mothers were employed outside the home in 2000 - young children who worked - wrong modification as in B.

(E) with about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975, almost two-thirds of such mothers were employed outside the home in 2000 ---- 'young children working outside' is wrong as in A.


Hello Sir,

Although above are some really strong points to eliminate incorrect answer choices and these should have caught my attention, I eliminated the answer choices "A" and "B" for the usage of "two-thirds of those mothers", which, I think, incorrectly implies that this set of women(mothers) in 2000 is from the same set of women from 1975.
whereas, the phrase: "two-thirds of such mothers" implies that this set of mothers, in 2000 is the same type of mothers previously mentioned.

and then, in "D" and "E", I think the usage of "even though..." and "with..." is incorrect.

Can you please validate the reasoning ?
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AdityaWahi
Hello GMATNinja, egmat, daagh, DmitryFarber, VeritasKarishma, mikemcgarry and other experts,
I had a query regarding the usage of while in option A. Since the original sentence tries to correlate the two data points, shouldn't we maintain that original intent and have a "while..", "even though..." or "with..." in the corrected version too? This was one of the reasons that made me choose answer option B over C. If not, how do we know which parts of the option-A are a part of the 'intended meaning' and should be retained and which not? Is there a general rule for this?

Also, this one is a very basic doubt, but does 'who' act in the same way as 'which' does, and attaches to the closest noun it can find? I read option B as 'there were about one-third of mothers with young children who worked outside the home'. Had we separated 'with young children' with a comma on both side, will this sentence imply the required meaning then? i.e.
..there were about one-third of mothers, with young children, who worked outside the home...
Will this have worked on GMAT?

There is no "original intent". There is only the concept of "logical intent/meaning". What makes sense in a particular context is what is correct and that is what makes SC questions hard sometimes. Option (A) is no different from any other option except that it is written twice on the screen.
You don't need a connector. The census data could easily give you two data points of the same variable at different times. Though a connector needn't be wrong "while only 1/3rd women worked outside at that time, now 2/3rd do..." etc.

Other options have grammatical issues and that is why they are wrong.

You cannot separate mothers and 'with young children' with a comma because 'with young children' is an essential modifier. It tells you the mothers we are talking about. We are not talking about all mothers but only those with young children.
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According to United States census data, while there was about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975, in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home.

(A) while there was about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975, in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home

(B) there were about one-third of mothers with young children who worked outside the home in 1975; in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home

(C) in 1975 about one-third of mothers with young children worked outside the home; in 2000, almost two-thirds of such mothers were employed outside the home

(D) even though in 1975 there were about one-third of mothers with young children who worked outside the home, almost two-thirds of such mothers were employed outside the home in 2000

(E) with about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975, almost two-thirds of such mothers were employed outside the home in 2000

This question is based on Comparison and Parallelism.

The underlined portion of the sentence makes a comparison between the proportion of mothers with young children working outside the home in two separate years – 1975 and 2000.

In Option A, the comparison is not parallel. The construction of the clauses is not similar. Since the first clause ends with the phrase “in 1975”, the second clause also should end with the phrase “in 2000”. Furthermore, the modifier “working outside the home in 1975” modifies children. So, Option A can be eliminated.

In Option B, the modifier “who worked outside the home in 1975” modifies ‘children’. So, Option B can be eliminated.

In Option C, the two clauses are parallel. So, C is the best of all the options.

In Option D, the phrase “even though” conveys an unnecessary contradiction. The modifier error in Option B – young children who worked outside the home – is repeated in this option. So, Option D can be eliminated.

In Option E, the use of the preposition “with” conveys a relationship between the two groups of mothers that is not implied by the sentence. The sentence only makes a statement about the proportion of mothers working outside the home in two different years. Furthermore, the phrase “young children working outside the home” again gives rise to a modifier error. So, Option E can also be eliminated.

Therefore, C is the most appropriate option.

Jayanthi Kumar.
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Hi EducationAisle


Would you agree that the usage of the relative pronoun 'who' is grammatically correct, however, the usage is such in this case that it leaves some room for ambiguity?
Logically the relative pronoun should refer to 'mothers'.
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Hi Experts,
Can't 'who' in B and D jump over 'with young children' to modify 'mothers'. I have read an explanation somewhere that noun modifiers like who, which.... can modify more than just the noun glued with them. Further, I have seen some OG questions where ,which can modify a noun separated by an prep phrase!!! I am getting more confused....please show some lights!!!
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Vegita
Hi EducationAisle


Would you agree that the usage of the relative pronoun 'who' is grammatically correct, however, the usage is such in this case that it leaves some room for ambiguity?
Logically the relative pronoun should refer to 'mothers'.
Hi Vegita, thanks for tagging me on this.

I am assuming that you're referring to options B and D. In both these options, there is significant ambiguity (and that's putting it mildly) in terms of what who is referring to. It is placed right next to young children, while it is supposed to be modifying mothers.
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GMATNinja

Hi, I choose D because it explicitely mantains the contrast indicated by "while" in the original sentence with "even though". Also in some questions (I don't have any at hand right now) the pronoun "who" can jump to refer to a slightly far away noun if the latest cannot be placed elsewhere.

Please your help to check if my understanding is correct or not.

Thanks!
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ddavilau
As Karishma explained above, there is no such thing as the "original sentence." As long as the answer conveys a clear and sensible meaning without grammar errors, it's correct. Sometimes the meaning in A will be wrong, and we have to use the other choices to see what's intended. In other cases, the meaning is more or less the same across the choices, and that's the case in this question. C doesn't have "while" because it has a semicolon instead, and so there's no longer any need for a word such as "while" that creates a subordinate clause. All the same ideas are still conveyed; we aren't told directly that there's a contrast, but the contrast is still there in the numbers.

Meanwhile, D has to go. Aside from the modifier problem (which really is a problem), we can't say "there were one-third." Also, describing the first case with a modifier ("who worked") and the second with a verb phrase ("were employed") only adds to the confusion.
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Mck2023
Hi Experts,
Can't 'who' in B and D jump over 'with young children' to modify 'mothers'. I have read an explanation somewhere that noun modifiers like who, which.... can modify more than just the noun glued with them. Further, I have seen some OG questions where ,which can modify a noun separated by an prep phrase!!! I am getting more confused....please show some lights!!!


Hello Mck2023 & Vegita,

You both raise a very interesting question.

I would say that in both Choice B & D, "who" can jump over "with young children" to modify the slightly far-away noun "one-third of mothers" because it does not make any sense for "who" to refer to "children" as per the context of the sentence.

The real problem with these choices is that they distort the intended meaning. Per the context of the sentence, what did the data in 1975 say about the working mothers? It said that one-third of mothers with young children WORKED outside the home. Now, take a very good look at Choice B & DF. They say that, according to the data, there WERE one-third of mothers with young children. The information about these mothers working outside the home appears merely as a piece of additional information. Here is the clear distortion of the meaning. This reason is good enough for me to reject these answer choices.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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Shrey08
daagh
According to United States census data, while there was about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975, in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home.

If you are steadfast in your thinking, that ' working outside the home' should modify the mothers and not the children, and then you are good to the last.


(A) while there was about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975, in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home -- working outside modifies children

(B) there were about one-third of mothers with young children who worked outside the home in 1975; in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home -- young children who worked outside - is wrong

(C) in 1975 about one-third of mothers with young children worked outside the home; in 2000, almost two-thirds of such mothers were employed outside the home-- Only in C worked is the main verb for the mothers.-- correct choice.

(D) even though in 1975 there were about one-third of mothers with young children who worked outside the home, almost two-thirds of such mothers were employed outside the home in 2000 - young children who worked - wrong modification as in B.

(E) with about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975, almost two-thirds of such mothers were employed outside the home in 2000 ---- 'young children working outside' is wrong as in A.


Hello Sir,

Although above are some really strong points to eliminate incorrect answer choices and these should have caught my attention, I eliminated the answer choices "A" and "B" for the usage of "two-thirds of those mothers", which, I think, incorrectly implies that this set of women(mothers) in 2000 is from the same set of women from 1975.
whereas, the phrase: "two-thirds of such mothers" implies that this set of mothers, in 2000 is the same type of mothers previously mentioned.

and then, in "D" and "E", I think the usage of "even though..." and "with..." is incorrect.

Can you please validate the reasoning ?

Hi Shrey08

Your reasoning is exactly correct, it is already explained by another forum expert here: https://gmatclub.com/forum/according-to ... l#p2531649

SUCH mothers = the kind of mothers mentioned before
THOSE mothers = the EXACT SAME mothers mentioned before (the ones from 1975!)

Also, Since both clauses are independent, the use of connector "even though" or "with" is incorrect. Refer to the link to validate your POE here: https://gmatclub.com/forum/according-to ... l#p1814704

Hope this is helpful.
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Hi Experts,
VeritasKarishma, GMATNinja

What's the subject and verb in A and B?
I usually revert the structure to read such construction. For example - There was X = X was there. Is this a correct way?
Subject is "One-third" or "mothers" in A??
I think mothers cannot be the subject inside a preposition. Please help.

(A) while there was about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975, in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home
(B) there were about one-third of mothers with young children who worked outside the home in 1975; in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home
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Sneha2021
Hi Experts,
VeritasKarishma, GMATNinja

What's the subject and verb in A and B?
I usually revert the structure to read such construction. For example - There was X = X was there. Is this a correct way?
Subject is "One-third" or "mothers" in A??
I think mothers cannot be the subject inside a preposition. Please help.

(A) while there was about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975, in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home
(B) there were about one-third of mothers with young children who worked outside the home in 1975; in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home

Hello Sneha2021,

We hope this finds you well.

Having gone through the question and your query, we believe we can resolve your doubts.

In both these answer choices, there are two clauses.

A - In Option A, in the clause - "while there was about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975" - the subject is the placeholder pronoun "there", and the verb is "was". In the second clause - "almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home" - the subject is "two-thirds of those mothers", and the verb is "were".

B. In Option B, in the clause - "there were about one-third of mothers with young children who worked outside the home in 1975" - the subject is the placeholder pronoun "there", and the verb is "were". In the second clause - "almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home" - the subject is "two-thirds of those mothers", and the verb is "were".

We hope this helps.
All the best!
Experts' Global Team
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Sneha2021
Hi Experts,
VeritasKarishma, GMATNinja

What's the subject and verb in A and B?
I usually revert the structure to read such construction. For example - There was X = X was there. Is this a correct way?
Subject is "One-third" or "mothers" in A??
I think mothers cannot be the subject inside a preposition. Please help.

(A) while there was about one-third of mothers with young children working outside the home in 1975, in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home
(B) there were about one-third of mothers with young children who worked outside the home in 1975; in 2000, almost two-thirds of those mothers were employed outside the home

In a structure such as this:
One thirds of mothers were working ...
The subject is "one third of mothers". The sentence is talking about a section of mothers and that is the subject.

Similar to:
Some mothers were working ...
The subject is "some mothers". Some quantifies mothers.

In a structure such as this:
There is my mother...
The placeholder subject is 'there' and actual subject is 'my mother'.
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