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By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a

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By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Sep 2017, 07:33
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A
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By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized that the success of its state building projects depended on the welfare of its people.

A. By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized
B. Until the mid-1700s, when it had begun a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized
C. By the mid-1700s the French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, when it fully realized
D. The French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague by the mid-1700s, fully realizing
E. When the French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, it fully realized by the mid-1700s

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Re: By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Sep 2017, 09:01
IMO A

If you draw the logic timeline of the events and the time marker of the sentence "By(Until) mid-1700" - French government have to realize sth first before begin to start sth

Thus A is the only choice show this timeline

Note: functions of verb are to index are 1) action and 2)timeline of that action


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Re: By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Oct 2017, 03:18
could an expert please let me know what is wrong with option D ?
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Re: By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a  [#permalink]

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New post 28 May 2018, 23:06
Would anyone please explain how to eliminate option D ?

For the Option A , I could not find the proper referent of ' it' .

Thanks in advance.
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Re: By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a  [#permalink]

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New post 29 May 2018, 10:50
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By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized that the success of its state building projects depended on the welfare of its people.

A. By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized
B. Until the mid-1700s, when it had begun a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized
C. By the mid-1700s, the French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, when it fully realized
D. The French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague by the mid-1700s, fully realizing
E. When the French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, it fully realized by the mid-1700s
Why D is wrong:
Ask a simple question what the phrase, 'by the mid-1700s' is modifying. As per the original, it is modifying the French Govt's starting of a concerted effort. However, D alters this intent by the placement of the said phrase next 'to prevent the famine and plague'. Now it means that the Govt. vowed to prevent the said maladies by the mid of the 1700s. This is a case of wrong word order leading to misplaced modification.
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Re: By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a  [#permalink]

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New post 29 May 2018, 22:45
I'm not a SC expert, however, will try to explain.

Idea of a sentence is that by some date, French government realized importance
of some action and as a result of this realization effort took place.

So we should put date first and provide construction that shows result of activity in the past.
Only past perfect fits for such purpose

A is a best one
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Re: By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a  [#permalink]

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New post 30 May 2018, 03:04
SajjadAhmad wrote:
By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized that the success of its state building projects depended on the welfare of its people.

A. By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized
B. Until the mid-1700s, when it had begun a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized
C. By the mid-1700s the French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, when it fully realized
D. The French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague by the mid-1700s, fully realizing
E. When the French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, it fully realized by the mid-1700s


this is tense problem. we have 3 point of time/actions inhere. mid 1700, realize, and depend
by mid-1700 shows that we need an action happen before this point so had realized is used. this is easy.

the harder point is to explain the logic of had realize and depended. is had realized happen before depended. no.
had realized happen before mid 1700. end of story. had done is use to show a sequence and this two events is enough.
what about depended.
depended is not related to had realized. it is simply an past action which at the time of speaking-this time is in the past- is exist indefinitely. depend exist before and after realized and its existence , from context of sentence , is in past. so , depend should be in simple past.

i can give you an example similar.

yesterday, i realized that gmat is not hard as pesons think.
is not hard is an action exist indefinitely before and after realized. and it is in present. this is why realized in the past and is not hard is in present.
yesterday, i realized that water boil at 100 degree c.
boil exist indefintely so, it must be in present tense though the main action is in the past. this case rarely happend because normally if the main action is in the past, the supbordinate clause must be in the past tense

yesterday, i told my friends that i would retake gmat.

only 3 action/point of time appear , we already have complex analysis.
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Re: By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a  [#permalink]

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New post 30 May 2018, 03:08
normally if the time in main clause in in the past, the time in subordinate clause also in the past but it can be in present.

this case is odd because time in subordinate clause seems go before time in main clause.

this problem shows that main clause can be in past perfect and subordinate clause can be in simple past.
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Re: By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a  [#permalink]

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New post 31 May 2018, 03:49
daagh wrote:
By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized that the success of its state building projects depended on the welfare of its people.

A. By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized
B. Until the mid-1700s, when it had begun a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized
C. By the mid-1700s, the French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, when it fully realized
D. The French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague by the mid-1700s, fully realizing
E. When the French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, it fully realized by the mid-1700s
Why D is wrong:
Ask a simple question what the phrase, 'by the mid-1700s' is modifying. As per the original, it is modifying the French Govt's starting of a concerted effort. However, D alters this intent by the placement of the said phrase next 'to prevent the famine and plague'. Now it means that the Govt. vowed to prevent the said maladies by the mid of the 1700s. This is a case of wrong word order leading to misplaced modification.

daagh Sir

Can you please explain why A is preferable over C?

The only thing that I consider a reason so far is that C slightly changes the meaning. A tells us that the French government already had fully realized the mentioned situation when the government started its effort. In contrast to that, C tells us that the efforts started at the same time as the the government realized the situation.

However, I'm not sure about that and hence I'm looking for an explanation.
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Re: By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a  [#permalink]

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New post 31 May 2018, 06:27
Hello,

Can anyone provide a solid reason to eliminate C.

Thanks
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Re: By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a  [#permalink]

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New post 31 May 2018, 06:47
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I couldn't agree with you more. 'C' definitely changes the original meaning. That is a solid reason to eliminate C.
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Re: By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a  [#permalink]

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New post 31 May 2018, 22:14
Hi Amirfunc

Let me try

By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, the French government had fully realized that the success of its state building projects depended on the welfare of its people.

if we put these events on the timeline, we get

Past event 1: the French government had fully realized (use of past perfect is correct)
Past event 2: By the mid-1700, when it began a concerted effort (simple past - correct)

The intended meaning here is that the French govt had fully realized by mid-1700 before it started a concerted effort to....

C. By the mid-1700s the French government began a concerted effort to prevent famine and plague, when it fully realized

Past event 1: By the mid-1700s the French government began a concerted effort
Past event 2: when it fully realized

'C' changes the meaning, here it seems like all events happened at the same time as there is no use of 'past perfect' to show the sequencing of events.


Hope it helps.
Re: By the mid-1700s, when it began a concerted effort to prevent famine a &nbs [#permalink] 31 May 2018, 22:14
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