Calling all US Military Fall 2018 Applicants!

Applying to M7s and Top 15s this Fall.

MBADataGuru's recent blogpost on acceptance rates of military MBA applicants......

FROM MBA Data Guru: Military MBA Acceptance Rate Analysis

Military MBA Acceptance Rate Analysis Transitioning from the military to MBA is a fairly popular path to follow. A little over 4% of MBA applications come from military veterans. When looking at the data comparing military applicants to traditional MBA applicants, a few trends become clear: Military / Veteran applicants tend to be a year or two older. Scores for military applicants are a little lower on average, about 15 points on the GMAT and about .15 for GPA Military applicants on average have another year or two of work experience Military MBA acceptance rate is about 50% higher than the acceptance rate for traditional applicants For the purposes of this article, I define traditional applicants as individuals that have worked in finance, marketing, accounting, retail, STEM and healthcare. They make up around 86% percent of MBA applicants. I excluded applicants that had a background in education, entertainment, sports, hospitality, tourism, human resources, journalism, publishing, government and non-profit. Military applicants on average have the highest acceptance rate despite having the lowest average scores. My hypothesis is that they tend to have more significant leadership experience than other applicants and tend to do well in job placement. They also know how to operate well under pressure. These traits are desirable for MBA programs. Military MBA Acceptance Rate by Tier For the purposes of this analysis, I broke the schools into tiers since not all schools have enough data on military applicants to look at individually. Tier 1 is defined as the schools ranked 1 through 7: Harvard, Wharton, Booth, Stanford, Sloan, Kellogg and Haas. Tier 2 is defined as schools ranked 8 through 14: Tuck, Yale, Columbia, Ross, Stern, Fuqua and Darden. Tier 3 is defined as schools ranked 15 through 25: Anderson, Johnson, McCombs, Kenan-​Flagler, Tepper, Goizueta, McDonough, Kelley, Olin, Marshall, Carey and Owen. Tier Applicant Group Accepted GMAT GPA Age 1 Traditional 14% 727 3.53 27.3 1 Military & Defense 23% 719 3.39 28.4 2 Traditional 25% 718 3.45 27.3 2 Military & Defense 39% 705 3.28 28.9 3 Traditional 37% 709 3.43 27.1 3 Military & Defense 55% 685 3.23 28.8 As you can see, military applicants have a substantial advantage at tier 1, 2 and 3 schools. The tier with largest lift is actually tier 1, which has a 62% higher acceptance rate for military applicants compared to traditional applicants. Military applicants had a 58% higher acceptance rate for Tier 2 schools and 49% for tier 3. Military applicants had the smallest score gap for tier 1 schools and the largest gap for tier 3 where military applicants had a GMAT that is 24 points lower. Military MBA Acceptance Rate Lift School Military Acceptance Rate Lift Harvard University (HBS) 117% University of Michigan—​Ann Arbor (Ross) 94% Duke University (Fuqua) 90% University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) 75% Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan) 71% Northwestern University (Kellogg) 57% Columbia University (CBS) 39% Dartmouth College (Tuck) 36% University of Texas—​Austin (McCombs) 30% University of Virginia (Darden) 19% University of Chicago (Booth) 11% The chart above shows how much higher the acceptance rate for military applicants is compared to traditional applicants. Harvard had the highest lift, where military applicants are more than twice as likely to get accepted. At the other end of the spectrum is Booth, where military applicants only have a 11% advantage over traditional applicants. My advice for military applicants is to apply to Ross and Duke. They are really strong schools with a greater than 50% chance of admission. I only included schools where there is enough data. I looked at the acceptance rates for the other schools but there wasn’t enough data to publish an actual number. So I grouped them into categories. Schools with a large lift ( greater than 70%): Haas, Emory, Tepper, and Kelley Schools with a medium lift (30% to 60%): Stern, Anderson, Johnson, and Marshall. Schools with little to no lift (lower than 30%): Stanford, Georgetown, Olin, Owen, Carey, UNC, and Yale. I plan to do a similar analysis for other non-traditional applicants in the near future. MBA Data Guru - Business school admissions data and analysis

Below is a top post from Ivy Admissions Group. Click here to read the full article on their blog.

Why more military vets should apply to top MBA programs

Military members are said to have an advantage in the MBA application process, given how valuable their leadership experience, international exposure, and communications skills are to business education. Some studies estimate that the acceptance rate for military vets is about double that of non-veterans in top MBA programs.

In spite of this however, military members are severely under-indexed in the MBA classroom. Just look at my alma mater, Harvard Business School. More than 180 students in the previous two classes have worked for McKinsey & Company, which boasts 11,000 employees worldwide. The United States Military is more than 10,000% larger, with over 1.3 million active duty personnel, and yet there are about 55% fewer U.S. Veterans than McKinsey Consultants – only about 80 school-wide.

Military Veterans enrich the MBA experience for others, and get a ton of value out of it themselves. Do why don’t more apply?

Some Vets may be reluctant to apply because they feel ill-suited for the rarefied air of an elite MBA classroom. Military service is, after all, a lot more rough and dirty than the office lives of entrepreneurs, financiers, and consultants. Others may feel that they are unprepared for the academic rigors. However, I felt that my military service was excellent preparation for my MBA. In the spirit of this Independence Day, I’d like share some lessons all MBAs can learn from military service.

Integrity beyond reproach

One of my first memories of Officer Candidate School was our Senior Chief brutally punishing the class for failing to immediately fess up to a rule infraction. I remember his strained, veiny neck bellowing that our reputations were everything, and that as officers we would need to exemplify “integrity beyond reproach.”

To get the autonomy necessary to accomplish my mission, I needed my commander to have complete confidence in me to execute, whatever the hardships to be endured. To get my troops to follow my orders, I needed them to trust that my instructions were critical to the mission and already accounted for their well-being.

At business school, I also found myself under the microscope. As an MBA, every day you are interacting closely with the future business leaders of the world, each of whom is going to carry an impression of you based on what they see in and around the classroom. In this environment, you need to carry yourself with the highest integrity, from your academic coursework, to attributing ideas to their originators in discussion group, to prompt and complete Venmo payments after a group dinner. Military officers are used to doing the right thing whether someone is looking for not, which is good because in business school everyone will be.

Quantity has a quality

Sure some militaries have low-quality outdated missiles, but if they launch enough of them at a fighter jet or aircraft carrier, you will quickly realize how quantity has a quality all its own.

The same goes for a lot of business school. A single noisy dorm-room party might not yield the kind of high quality interactions you'd like, but if you’re the kind of person who always shows up, you’ll likely be invited to the more intimate gatherings. An individual networking event may not land you a job, but if you go to every single one hosted by a particular company, it will speak volumes to them about your commitment. Professors look for quality comments, but if you are always ready to jump in, they will appreciate your mental acuity and you will likely be able to ward off any cold-calls on days when you are not as prepared.

Bias for Action

MBA students are notoriously flakey. We talk a big game about organizing a trek or meeting up with an old colleague for brunch, but the fact of the matter is that our time is always double-booked and we’re forced to turn down fun events constantly. Vets are able to overcome these challenges because they are trained to have a bias for action. If someone asks to get brunch, they will know to put a few dates on the calendar to ensure that it happens. If there is a group project to do, Vets know to plan out the meetings, show up on time, and keep the group on track, even if it means leaning on others a little bit to ensure that their work gets done.

Think fast and adapt

Most of the time when I prepare a case before class, I’ll be struck by one or two comments that I think might change the trajectory of the case discussion. Then in class the perfect time for me to share my comment will come and pass before I can get into the conversation. These moments happen to every business school student, but I find that Veterans are better about letting them go, thinking fast, and adapting. Sticking with your original plan and shoehorning that comment into the discussion when called upon later would have disrupted the flow of the conversation and earned you a bad grade as well. Service members are trained to understand that no good plan survives first contact with the enemy, and are ready to adjust accordingly.

Hey guys, is this the appropriate space to ask questions?

I am a Captain in the Marine Corps Reserves (0402 Logistics) and have many years working experience in the financial industry (currently in a compliance/risk management role with JPM in NYC). I will be 33 years old by matriculation. I scored a 760 GMAT (47/47 IR: 8 AWA: 6) and had a 3.6 undergrad GPA from a state school.

Unfortunately, I was dinged without interview on my 2017 application to HBS.

As a result, I am trying to use every avenue I can to improve my application to not get dinged again. At my age, time is fast running out to remain competitive.

I have spoke to fellow officers who graduated from HBS, Fuqua, UNC, and Stern and they unanimously discouraged me from using consultants. The thoughts are that consultants are for applicants with glaring concerns (like low GPA/GMAT) or for foreign nationals who need help with English, interviewing, and simply distinguishing themselves from the pack.

What are people's thoughts on this? Given that consultants run over $6000, I want to know if the expense will qualitatively improve my chances of being interviewed and getting into HBS? Would a military officer with a reasonably high GMAT score and working experience still get something out of a consultant that I cannot just manage on my own? With the full recognition that my previous 'on my own' attempt resulted in a ding.

Your honesty is appreciated. Thanks, guys!

Is this a real profile? I have never heard of anyone applying to HBS only. If you really want an MBA, you could probably easily get into a Top 10.

I think $6k for one school is probably on the higher end based on the ones I talked to. Most will offer a military discount if you call as well. I don't know if they are worth it. I'm applying this Fall, but to me, the information is out there in webinars, message board like P&Q and GMAT Club, alumni, current students... If you are too busy to do your research, then a consultant may be the way to go. But if you have the time and resources, then it might not be.

Its one of those things that if you use a consultant and get in, then you won't know if it was the consultant or not that made the difference.

Full disclosure: no, I didn't use a consultant when applying in 2010-11 and yes, I do currently work for MilitaryToBusiness on the side.

I disagree strongly with the parts in bold, and would wager a paycheck that any of my ~35 clients over the last four application cycles would as well. Before I learned more about this gig I viewed consultants as little more than glorified essay editors. After a few years of doing this I'd say essay reviews are about the 4th most important thing I do for clients -- far more valuable is the touchy-feely type work we do to help our clients solidify their "brand" or their positioning which is just as important as the #'s when it comes to creating a convincing narrative as to why a school should admit you.

What are your values, what's important to you, what's driven the career and life decisions you've made up to this point, what distinguishes you vs. the other dozen Marine officers with similar quantifiable stats, why an MBA, what are you passionate about doing post-MBA and why is this school the logical next step to get you there, what unique qualities are you going to bring to your section/cohort that those other dozens guys don't have, etc.

Happy to put you in touch with a few of my former clients if you'd like to get their perspective on how I was able to help strengthen their applications.

As for the $6000 number you referenced, I'd suggest taking a look at these numbers: https://www.militarytobusiness.com/mba-admissions/

And I agree with the previous poster in regards to it being a huge mistake for anyone -- regardless of profile strength -- to apply only to HBS.

I agree with EBM -- Good consultants do provide an important and valuable service that is difficult to do on your own.

For the military (and non-military) clients that I've worked with since separating over at Ivy Admissions Group, that service is crafting the ideal story to tell the admissions committee, through your application, given your unique background. When I started out by helping veterans get off of the MBA waitlist, I was struck by just how many had killer stats, great personalities, and no glaring concerns. Their essays were good stories and finely crafted. The problem with each of their applications was that it was either not telling a coherent story, or it was telling the wrong story -- easy mistakes to make.

The heavy lifting of our service comes up front when we run clients through our Narrative Bootcamp -- a series of exercises based on Harvard's latest research on public narrative and inter-personal negotiation, that looks back on all of your past experiences and future aspirations and unifies them into a single simple and compelling story. We think of it this way: if you were running for office and were trying to win the vote of the admissions committee, what story would you tell them?

As for the $6,000 figure. Also agree that's whack. Here's a price comparison of 30+ suppliers I initially used when I first applied: https://goo.gl/6gS6cL.

There's a lot to think about and you should definitely do your homework before engaging a consultant. If you're curious what is even in the realm of possibility, we can evaluated your odds of admission for free here: https://www.ivyadmissionsgroup.com/odds

What Harvard Business School wants Military Veterans to Bring to the MBA classroom

The former Director of Admissions at Harvard Business School Dee Leopold would famously tell interviewees that admitting a class of MBA students is similar to building a salad. Each student is meant to add a certain flavor to the overall mix. For investment bankers, it is economic intuition and modeling skills for the finance classes. For consultants, it is the marketing and strategy frameworks for those classes. But what is the flavor that we military veterans are meant to add?

As military veterans seek to achieve the benefits of an elite business school – higher paying jobs, vibrant personal networks, a world-class education – this is an important question to ask. Schools like Harvard Business School, Stanford GSB, Chicago Booth, and Wharton, look for students who will bring voice to certain perspectives in the classroom. When you write your essay, it is important to convey a narrative that gives the admissions committee confidence in your ability to play the role that they have envisioned for you. So what do they look for in vets?

Leadership Experience

Unlike your peers, who at most have indirectly supervised a couple other consultants on a client site, military veterans have an incredible wealth of leadership experiences. Veterans lead many times more people, in diverse organizations, in some of the highest-stress environments in the world. As you write your application, your resume should shout your leadership experience from the rooftops.

Socio-Economic Diversity

Many students at elite schools like Harvard Business School, Stanford Graduate School of Business, Chicago Booth, and Wharton come from elite private universities and have generally spent their entire working careers working with those who have done the same. Very few will interact at length with anyone who has not gone to college. In contrast, the military is an incredible melting pot of class. Officers from Dartmouth, UVA, and Notre Dame work side by side with those who dream of completing a degree online from Central Texas University, University of Phoenix, or University of Maryland University College. This experience often gives Veterans higher Emotional Quotients and the “common touch” needed to interact with people who are very different from themselves. That’s a valuable part of diversity that would likely be nowhere else in evidence at prestigious MBA campuses.

Large-Organization Outlook

Start-ups are “in”, but the fact of the matter is that it is always easier to go from a big company to a smaller one. Ex-military service members excel at big companies like Exxon, General Electric, and Eli Lilly, because they how to navigate large organizations. After all, with 3.1 million service members, there is no bigger American employer than the US Military. The ability to navigate complex power dynamics, advance causes through bureaucracies, and motivate subordinates are all topics that will be central to your MBA leadership classes, giving Vets a lot to contribute in them.

International Exposure

One of the key issues students grapple with in business school is how to lead global teams that cross different time zones, work styles, functions, and cultures. While pretty much everyone in business school has traveled to other countries, few have substantial work experience in more than one country. Here again, military members often have an advantage, and can speak to the practical complexities that come with such work.

Geopolitical Perspective

When it comes to classes that involve government or foreign policy, often the rest of the class will instinctively turn to hear the perspectives of its Veterans. In addition to having the credibility that comes from wearing the uniform of your country, military leaders are trained early to have a global perspective – to look for geopolitical crises may arise and train to meet those challenges. Many other classmates on the other hand have spent little time thinking about issues outside their teams, firms, or industries.

In their efforts to boost veteran enrollment, the Tepper School of Business at Carnegie Mellon will be hosting their first dedicated event for veterans on Friday November 3rd. This will be the first part of the larger event, Diversity Weekend, which includes veterans as a diversity population the school seeks out. Tepper will be covering up to two nights of accommodations in a local hotel. More details can be found at https://tepper.cmu.edu/prospective-stud ... ty-weekend.

Double post

From attending military campus visits and getting in touch with veterans at top schools, I have noticed that they almost invariably come from infantry, aviation, intelligence, or SOF backgrounds. Same with most applicants I have spoken to.

Are there logistics, communications, admin, and other non-sexy MOS' represented because I haven't really seen them at these schools outside of women. And how can non-combat arms guys address this deficiency?

I think you must be working off a fairly small sample size because I had classmates (and have had clients) from pretty much all of the "non-glamorous" MOSs you can think of -- Navy SuppOs, Army LogOs, Marine LogOs and engineers, Navy SWOs and sub officers, Air Force acquisitions officers, Navy information warfare officers, Marine comm/data types, and probably a dozen more.

It's only a "deficiency" if you portray it as such -- regardless of what your MOS is/was, your job with the application is to paint a picture about how you stood out relative to your peers and how your personal actions (and the initiatives you spearheaded) contributed to the overall mission.

In some ways it can be easier to quantify performance in a business context with non-combat MOSs because you can talk about concrete metrics that don't really exist on the combat arms side. I'm working with a Marine CommO now who has great stories about how he built a program from scratch that guaranteed mobile and SIPR connectivity for a MEU that was spread across three continents at once, and how the techniques and doctrine established by his team became the basis for USMC-wide training programs on the hardware and software. I've worked with SuppOs in the past who talked about how they took innovative approaches to ensure that equipment and training requirements were met despite funding shortages during sequestration. And so on.

Hi friends,

I'm gearing up to apply next fall (currently studying for the GMAT) but have been thinking about the $$$ factor. Before I jumped in headfirst, I wanted to make sure the GI Bill benefits would actually make this a doable option for me after transition. I put together the attached spreadsheet, which is pretty encouraging. It is simple, only includes 17 schools, and I'm sure there are several minor errors. However, it should give a quick cost overview of the top programs (and also BYU--I know it's random, but I'm from Utah originally).

Hope it helps.

Scott

29 year old Army FA Captain here. Applying to UT, Gtown, UCLA, and USC for Fall 2018. 3.31GPA and B.B.A. degree, I am applying through the Consortium (good program for minorities). I have most of my applications completed. The GMAT is my crutch right now. Took it in August and bombed it so I'm re-engaging a deep study plan again to retake. I've used Veritas Prep this summer with limited results. Frustrating to say the least. Unfortunately, a lot of the difficulty is due to my narcolepsy (also causing medical separation for me). However, I don't expect any top B-school to care too much about hearing about an aliment to make exception so I'm just grinding to achieve a more competitive score.

Anybody have any suggestions for solid GMAT prep resources they've used?

I used Veritas Prep for the books and classroom instruction and supplemented with Magoosh's online teaching videos and problem sets.

Posted from my mobile device

Was your score in line with your practice tests? I was consistently scoring between 700-730 on my practice tests, but on the real test i bombed it twice, mainly due to anxiety; so I just took a ton of practice tests to get comfortable and set a rhythm. I mainly used veritasprep and increased my practice tests from 630 to 700+. Also between my tests I used all the Official Guides. I think if you strap down and really understand all the content in the OG material you should be in a pretty good place. Hopefully this helps. Feel free to pm me if you want more details. Good luck.

I sent this message to someone else a few months ago. May not apply for you exactly (he was 1 month out from the test), but take what you can from it.

For the GMAT, I did use Veritas' course. It's a 6 hours a week for 6 weeks course which was taught well, but you still need to hit the books hard. Veritas provides a dozen high quality books which are the foundation of the course (along with lots of problems and practice tests). I combined that with Magoosh's excellent videos and massive problem bank (which are a cheaper alternative to Veritas) and the Magoosh flashcards app.

Your best approach to studying for the GMAT is to take the long view. Think of it not as studying for a test but learning a sport. You have to slowly get your mind into GMAT thinking and comfortable with the GMAT problem types. I averaged only about 6-10 hours a week studying, but I did so over 5 months. I believe a little bit at a time over a long period is the best approach.

Concentrating on one topic for a month or more and not touching others is a highly ineffective strategy. In fact, I often would study quant for an hour, take a 10 minute break, and then do verbal or I would do quant one day and verbal the next. Veritas' course is set up for 3 hours of classroom instruction on quant and then 3 hours on verbal two days later. Shifting seamlessly between topics is an asset and it helps you be more productive in studying instead of getting burned out on one topic and then forgetting it later.

At this point, with only a month to go, you should have been done the building blocks of studying. Now, you need to take Practice Tests. I would take 2 a week the rest of the way, taking the whole test and simulating test conditions as best you can. You need to get used to how the test feels, how you feel after a long test, and get a good gauge of how long you should and shouldn't be spending on questions. You also need to get a good feel for quickly estimating if a problem is too hard for you so you can make an educated guess and move on.