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Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip

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Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip  [#permalink]

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New post 14 May 2019, 12:06
Quote:
(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

LoneSurvivor wrote:
I have a quick question experts how can They in option A unambiguously refers to " Clovis Points " instead of "Sspear Ppoints"

LoneSurvivor , you may have missed daagh 's answer to this question earlier in the thread. You can find his answer HERE..

If you did see the post but would like an additional approach, we can look to (1) the content of the "they" clause, and (2) the logic of the sentence. No matter how this issue is approached, we can always substitute the noun for the pronoun; if "spear heads" makes no sense when substituted into the "they" clause, then "spear heads" cannot be the antecedent.

• "they are named" - the antecedent must have, be, or refer to a proper name
-- they unambiguously refers to Clovis points because they have a special (and counterintuitive) name. The antecedent for they is "named." The only noun with a proper name is Clovis points.

In English, only proper nouns are capitalized.
-- Clovis points is a name. (In English, names in biology frequently have only the first word capitalized.)
-- spear points is not a name.
(I removed your initial caps from "Spear Points.")

The pronoun they refers to something that is named, and that something can only be Clovis points because spear points is not a name.

• Sentence meaning and logic make Clovis points the only logical antecedent
Alternatively, the meaning and logic of the sentence make "Clovis points" the only logical antecedent. From the appositive we know that Clovis points are a specific kind of spear point.

The sentence explains why things found all over a whole continent are specifically called "Clovis points." The clause "they are named . . ." describes why "Clovis" is the name (they were first discovered in Clovis, New Mexico)—not why generic spear heads are called spear heads.

• substitute both antecedents for they: only Clovis points makes sense
When in doubt, replace the pronoun with the noun.

Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, Clovis points are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932. :)

Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, spear points are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932. :x
-- That sentence makes no sense.

Hope that analysis helps.
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip  [#permalink]

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New post 14 May 2019, 14:28
LoneSurvivor wrote:
I have a quick question experts how can They in option A unambiguously refers to " Clovis Points " instead of "Spear Points"


Hello LoneSurvivor!

Thank you for your question! I know that pronouns and antecedents can be tricky, especially in long-winded sentences such as this one! Let's take a look at option A and answer your question:

(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

The reason we can confidently say the pronoun "they" refers to Clovis points and not spear points is because the phrase with spear points is a MODIFIER. Pronouns don't typically refer back to modifiers - they refer back to subjects. If we take out the modifier, we're left with this:

(A) Even though Clovis points have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

Whenever you're checking for pronoun-antecedent agreement, a good way to check that they're clear and correct is to get rid of all the extra "junk" in a sentence that is merely there to add more information (and to confuse GMAT students)! This "junk" can be things like modifiers, prepositional phrases, interjections, etc.

I hope this helps!
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Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip  [#permalink]

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New post 19 May 2019, 11:33
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.


(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.

(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.

Dear experts
egmat AjiteshArun generis

Can we eliminate choice B on the basis of no subject - verb for 1st IC?

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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip  [#permalink]

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New post 19 May 2019, 12:25
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sonusaini1 wrote:
Dear experts
egmat AjiteshArun generis

Can we eliminate choice B on the basis of no subject - verb for 1st IC?

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Hi sonusaini1,

This is option B:
Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

Here we have a dependent clause joined to an independent clause using although. This is a pattern that you'll see very often: although (DC), IC. When the although is at the starting of the sentence, we can "understand away" the subject and verb in some cases in the dependent clause.

Although he was unfit, he played the match.
Although he was unfit, he played the match.
Although unfit, he played the match.

We can't do this if the subject is something else entirely:
Although unfit, the match was played by him. ← This is not correct, as it implies that the match was unfit.

What you pointed out works for another dependent clause (the one introduced by where):
... the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932...

Here we need both the subject and verb.
... the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932...
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Jun 2019, 20:01
can some one explain, What the "THEIR" in option A refers to?
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jun 2019, 00:40
1
"Their" refers to spear points--it's part of the same modifying phrase. Don't go by any outdated rulebooks that say a possessive pronoun can't refer to a non-possessive noun.

However, I notice in scanning the conversation above that there has been a great to-do about whether the later pronoun "they" refers to Clovis points or spear points. Here's a shorter way of thinking about that: since we are using an appositive (one noun modifying another), it's clear that in this case "Clovis points" and "spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces" actually refer to the exact same thing, so it doesn't matter which one we choose! That's also why we don't have to worry about any confusion between "their" and the later "they."
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Sep 2019, 23:11
KC wrote:
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

I have gone through other answers and have found in them different errors in the given choices, but while solving the question I rejected the incorrect options because of some other reasons 'as well'.

GMATNinja VeritasKarishma mikemcgarry daagh If you can please provide your valuable thoughts on them.
Quote:
(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

Shouldn't the underlined part say, "where they were first discovered" or at least have a 'comma' before where. Its usage makes more sense in option 'D'
Quote:
(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.

The original sentence specifically says 'onto their faces', in this option that is changed to 'onto the faces'.
Quote:
(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

Again 'onto the faces' instead of 'onto their faces'


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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2019, 02:54
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Sarjaria84 wrote:
KC wrote:
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

I have gone through other answers and have found in them different errors in the given choices, but while solving the question I rejected the incorrect options because of some other reasons 'as well'.

GMATNinja VeritasKarishma mikemcgarry daagh If you can please provide your valuable thoughts on them.
Quote:
(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

Shouldn't the underlined part say, "where they were first discovered" or at least have a 'comma' before where. Its usage makes more sense in option 'D'
Quote:
(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.

The original sentence specifically says 'onto their faces', in this option that is changed to 'onto the faces'.
Quote:
(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

Again 'onto the faces' instead of 'onto their faces'


Thanks
Saurabh


Option (B), you are right. 'Where' clause is missing the subject and verb. Same issue is in (D) too.

Options (C) and (D), 'onto their faces' or 'onto the faces' isn't a deal breaker. I would prefer 'onto their faces' for better clarity but 'onto the faces' is also fine.
Bigger problem in (C) is 'have been first discovered in 1932'. It should be 'were first discovered in 1932'. Present perfect implies a connect to the present though we are explicitly talking about the first discovery. It is done and dusted already.
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Sep 2019, 08:10
there are many type of entities which can word as an adverb
subordinate clause as an adverb. these clauses go with subordinate conjunctions such as although, while, because.... the meaning relation between subordinate clause and the main clause is made clear by the subordinate conjunction.

do-ed or doing phrase. this kind of adverbials can offer many types of meaning relations with the main clause. but not all types of meaning relations are permited.

do-ed phrase can not offer a contrast between idea presented by do-ed phrase and the main clause. choice c is wrong.

because do-ed and doing phrase can offer many meaning relations, we can make mistakes when think that they can offer most of meaning relation.
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2019, 08:10
In option A
A. Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932. Correct. No errors.

Is there any fragment here or are the clauses present here not independent. I am getting confused with comma splice situation??

In option D
D. Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.Incorrect.
1. There is only one verb for "Spear points??????. But still the choice is using ???but???. This means there should be another verb here. Absence of this verb leads to fragment error.

What is the verb issue here?? The first phrase has chipped as a verb right and this phrase is referring to Clovis points. Again, are all the clauses independent or is there any issue of fragment here??
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip  [#permalink]

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New post 23 Nov 2019, 09:14
ssshyam1995 wrote:
In option A
A. Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932. Correct. No errors.

Is there any fragment here or are the clauses present here not independent. I am getting confused with comma splice situation??

In option D
D. Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.Incorrect.
1. There is only one verb for "Spear points??????. But still the choice is using ???but???. This means there should be another verb here. Absence of this verb leads to fragment error.

What is the verb issue here?? The first phrase has chipped as a verb right and this phrase is referring to Clovis points. Again, are all the clauses independent or is there any issue of fragment here??

To make (A) easier to analyze, let's take out the information between the first two commas for a moment:

"(A) Even though Clovis points... have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932." - No problem! The first clause is not independent, so this is fine. The part we removed ("spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces") is just some additional, comma-separated information modifying the Clovis points.

Quote:
(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

  • "that are chipped" modifies grooves
  • "with longitudinal grooves" modifies "Spear points"
  • "even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932" is not an independent clause -- this is just one big additional modifier.

So we basically have: "Spear points [a bunch of modifying stuff], but were found...".

This construction doesn't work because the sentence only has one main verb (were found), and it's in a dependent clause. We could say, "Spear points were buried but were found..." In that case, "but" would like the two verbs ("were buried" and "were found"). However, we cannot say, "Spear points... but were found all over North America," since "spear points" needs and deserves its own verb.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Dec 2019, 08:46
KC wrote:
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.


(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.

(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.


The Official Guide for GMAT Review 2016

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 106
Page: 693


DISCOVER AMER - Page 75

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=xBgAC7rNW5YC
LITTLE CHARLES E - 1995 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions

This area is called a “land bridge,” although, at a thousand miles wide from north to south, it was more than just a bridge; ... spear points of an unusual design were found, characterized by longitudinal grooves, or flutes, chipped onto the faces of the points. ... Although they have been found all over North America, Clovis points are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

Attachment:
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Main Issue:


1) Meaning: Need to show the contrast

(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932. - Correct

(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America. - Wrong: Meaning

(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America. - Wrong: Meaning

(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America. - Wrong: 1) Structure 2) Verb

(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932. - Wrong: 1) Meaning 2) Verb
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip   [#permalink] 06 Dec 2019, 08:46

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