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Re: Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically [#permalink]
Could someone help B Vs C ??

GMAT Prep Exam pack 1. OA: B
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Re: Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically [#permalink]
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KyleWiddison wrote:
ConnectTheDots wrote:
Could someone help B Vs C ??

GMAT Prep Exam pack 1. OA: B


There would be idiomatic preference for "to protect" over "for protecting". There is also a subtle but material meaning difference between B & C with the difference between the modifiers "intended" and "intending".

In B, the sentence reads "a series of smaller steps intended to protect the fish". It's evident that the steps are what is intended to protect the fish. In C, the sentence reads "a series of smaller steps, intending to protect the fish". Using the participle form, "intending", after a comma changes the way the modifier works. Instead of simply modifying steps, now "intending" is modifying the preceding clauses, implying that the politicians both proposed the smaller steps AND postponed an ambitious plan in an attempt to protect the fish. This doesn't make sense because delaying the ambitious plan does not protect the fish.

Watch out for how changing modifiers change the meaning of the sentence.

KW


But per the original sentence politicians are the ones who intend.

Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically charged in the Pacific Northwest, politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, instead of which they proposed a series of smaller steps, by which they intend to protect the fish.

A. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, instead of which they proposed a series of smaller steps, by which they intend
B. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, proposing instead a series of smaller steps intended.
C. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan for protecting wild salmon and other endangered fish, and instead they proposed a series of smaller steps, intending.

I don't see any other problem with (C) except 'for protecting'.

Per the original sentence also 'they proposed a series of smaller steps, by which they intend'

Also in (C),

they proposed a series of smaller steps, intending.

Verb-Ing correctly modifies previous clause and makes sense with the subject of the preceding clause.

Any suggestions?
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Re: Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically [#permalink]
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TGC wrote:
KyleWiddison wrote:
ConnectTheDots wrote:
Could someone help B Vs C ??

GMAT Prep Exam pack 1. OA: B


There would be idiomatic preference for "to protect" over "for protecting". There is also a subtle but material meaning difference between B & C with the difference between the modifiers "intended" and "intending".

In B, the sentence reads "a series of smaller steps intended to protect the fish". It's evident that the steps are what is intended to protect the fish. In C, the sentence reads "a series of smaller steps, intending to protect the fish". Using the participle form, "intending", after a comma changes the way the modifier works. Instead of simply modifying steps, now "intending" is modifying the preceding clauses, implying that the politicians both proposed the smaller steps AND postponed an ambitious plan in an attempt to protect the fish. This doesn't make sense because delaying the ambitious plan does not protect the fish.

Watch out for how changing modifiers change the meaning of the sentence.

KW


But per the original sentence politicians are the ones who intend.

Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically charged in the Pacific Northwest, politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, instead of which they proposed a series of smaller steps, by which they intend to protect the fish.

A. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, instead of which they proposed a series of smaller steps, by which they intend
B. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, proposing instead a series of smaller steps intended.
C. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan for protecting wild salmon and other endangered fish, and instead they proposed a series of smaller steps, intending.

I don't see any other problem with (C) except 'for protecting'.

Per the original sentence also 'they proposed a series of smaller steps, by which they intend'

Also in (C),

they proposed a series of smaller steps, intending.

Verb-Ing correctly modifies previous clause and makes sense with the subject of the preceding clause.

Any suggestions?


OK - a few points to discuss here. First of all, answer choice A does not necessarily reflect the intended meaning of the sentence - it is simply one of the answer choices - so we can't use underlined portions of the original to determine proper meaning.

Second, using the -ing modifier shifts the role of the politicians within the answer choice. Earlier the politicians are the agents who have to decide about a plan that would protect fish but later the politicians take a direct role in protecting fish and the steps are de-emphasized. You will notice in B that the plan is designed to protect and the steps are intended to protect. The structure in B makes much more sense.

Beyond the meaning issues in C, there is the issue with "for protecting" and I don't like the use of the comma before and.

KW
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Re: Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically [#permalink]
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"Finally reaching a decision, politicians decided" is redundant. Hence none of the options seem correct.
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The point here is to decide what really is intended to protect fish. B says that it is the small steps that are intended to protect. This is forthright and touching the nose from the front.
C says that it is the politicians' proposing of small steps that are intended to protect. This is indirect and touching the nose from behind.
The entire canvass has changed in C due to a changed a word. Therefore, B is the better fit.

Originally posted by daagh on 06 May 2017, 02:27.
Last edited by daagh on 11 Feb 2020, 08:07, edited 2 times in total.
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This is primarily a modifier question. The original structure of the sentence is as follows:
Finally reaching a decision..., politicians decided to do X, instead of which they proposed Y, by which they intend to do Z.
The last modifier, "instead of ..." is incorrect.
A better structure would be, "Finally reaching a decision..., politicians decided to do X, proposing instead Y intended to do Z.
Choice (B) fixes it with the correct structure.
Choice (C) is incorrect because it introduces "and instead", which is less precise and inconsistent with the author's original intent.
Choice (D) and (E) both suffer from an error in the first modifier, suggesting that "an ambitious plan" is what finally reached a decision.
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Re: Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically [#permalink]
Can anyone please explain the grammer rule related to using
'ing' form after comma?
Since after comma in option B the word is proposing,so it is modifying the entire clause?
I got confused in this question because of the 'ing' modifier.

Posted from my mobile device
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Re: Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically [#permalink]
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GMATNinja wrote:
Srija221 wrote:
Can anyone please explain the grammer rule related to using
'ing' form after comma?
Since after comma in option B the word is proposing,so it is modifying the entire clause?
I got confused in this question because of the 'ing' modifier.

Posted from my mobile device

Good question! And the answer is yes, "proposing" is modifying the entire clause. The easiest way to assess whether a COMMA + VERB-ing construction works is to recognize that the VERB-ing modifier could be performing one of two functions. It could A) be giving you a consequence of the action given in the previous clause or B) giving you context for the action in the previous clause.

In (B), we have the following:

    "...politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, proposing..."

Here, "proposing" works either way. The politicians decided to postpone their plan, and the consequence of this decision was for those politicians to propose a series of smaller steps instead. Or the politicians decided to postpone their plan, and -- here's some context -- they're proposing a series of smaller steps instead. Both are logical ways to understand the sentence, and so we know that "proposing" is perfectly fine here.

I hope that helps!


GMATNinja Since you mentioned the VERB-ing COULD be performing one of A or B, I want to ask have you come across any official questions where VERB-ing is performing a function other than A or B? Can we conveniently assume that in most of the cases the function will either be A or B?
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neo23 wrote:
GMATNinja wrote:
Srija221 wrote:
Can anyone please explain the grammer rule related to using
'ing' form after comma?
Since after comma in option B the word is proposing,so it is modifying the entire clause?
I got confused in this question because of the 'ing' modifier.

Posted from my mobile device

Good question! And the answer is yes, "proposing" is modifying the entire clause. The easiest way to assess whether a COMMA + VERB-ing construction works is to recognize that the VERB-ing modifier could be performing one of two functions. It could A) be giving you a consequence of the action given in the previous clause or B) giving you context for the action in the previous clause.

In (B), we have the following:

    "...politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, proposing..."

Here, "proposing" works either way. The politicians decided to postpone their plan, and the consequence of this decision was for those politicians to propose a series of smaller steps instead. Or the politicians decided to postpone their plan, and -- here's some context -- they're proposing a series of smaller steps instead. Both are logical ways to understand the sentence, and so we know that "proposing" is perfectly fine here.

I hope that helps!


GMATNinja Since you mentioned the VERB-ing COULD be performing one of A or B, I want to ask have you come across any official questions where VERB-ing is performing a function other than A or B? Can we conveniently assume that in most of the cases the function will either be A or B?

Yeah, I think that's a fair assumption. Offhand, I can't think of any examples of COMMA + VERB-ing performing a different function.

However, I have seen one interesting back-and-forth about whether the usage of "including" is fundamentally different than other types VERB-ing modifiers. For example:

    "In the last few years, Tim has contracted many diseases, including diphtheria and the bubonic plague." (Tim has small children, so this was inevitable.)

In this case, some might claim that "including" modifies the noun "diseases." It's a perfectly reasonable argument, but I think it's also fair to interpret "including" as modifying the entire previous clause and that the examples of diseases are providing context for what kind of illnesses Tim has contracted.

I hope that helps a bit!
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Re: Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically [#permalink]
JCLEONES wrote:
Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically charged in the Pacific Northwest, politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, instead of which they proposed a series of smaller steps, by which they intend to protect the fish.


A. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, instead of which they proposed a series of smaller steps, by which they intend

B. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, proposing instead a series of smaller steps intended

C. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan for protecting wild salmon and other endangered fish, and instead they proposed a series of smaller steps, intending

D. an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish was postponed by politicians, who instead proposed a series of smaller steps, intending

E. an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish has been postponed by politicians, proposing instead a series of smaller steps intended



Hi @egmat/ VeritasKarishma,

in the right option B, doer of proposing is Politician, but what is the modified action of proposing in this sentence?
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gaurav2m wrote:
JCLEONES wrote:
Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically charged in the Pacific Northwest, politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, instead of which they proposed a series of smaller steps, by which they intend to protect the fish.


A. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, instead of which they proposed a series of smaller steps, by which they intend

B. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, proposing instead a series of smaller steps intended

C. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan for protecting wild salmon and other endangered fish, and instead they proposed a series of smaller steps, intending

D. an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish was postponed by politicians, who instead proposed a series of smaller steps, intending

E. an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish has been postponed by politicians, proposing instead a series of smaller steps intended



Hi @egmat/ VeritasKarishma,

in the right option B, doer of proposing is Politician, but what is the modified action of proposing in this sentence?


"Comma + VERB-ing" at the end modifies the entire previous clause.
Check here: https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/veritas-prep-resource-links-no-longer-available-399979.html#/2014/1 ... -the-gmat/

"proposing instead ..." modifies the entire previous clause "politicians decided to postpone by at least ..."
The modifier tells us more about their decision.
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Re: Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically [#permalink]
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Hi AndrewN Sir AjiteshArun

Quote:
B. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, proposing instead a series of smaller steps intended


Verb+ing is used for modifying the preceding clause ( doer should not be clear) OR result of an action mentioned in preceding clause.

P decided , proposing
( reference e.g.: using latest technology, engineer identified the problem; identify : using latest technology)
Decided proposing? – they are actions one after another . it should be decided to propose something . So , how proposing modify preceding clause.
After a thought, I rejected B.

For C , actions are one after another; exactly what I thought in B . 2 actions : decided and instead proposed. ( and instead is also right in one of the official question)

So I was confident with C option.

But you know in end , it was a shock again.

Please suggest : how proposing is modifying preceding clause. I am not able to understand .
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imSKR wrote:
Hi AndrewN Sir AjiteshArun

Quote:
B. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, proposing instead a series of smaller steps intended


Verb+ing is used for modifying the preceding clause ( doer should not be clear) OR result of an action mentioned in preceding clause.

P decided , proposing
( reference e.g.: using latest technology, engineer identified the problem; identify : using latest technology)
Decided proposing? – they are actions one after another . it should be decided to propose something . So , how proposing modify preceding clause.
After a thought, I rejected B.

For C , actions are one after another; exactly what I thought in B . 2 actions : decided and instead proposed. ( and instead is also right in one of the official question)

So I was confident with C option.

But you know in end , it was a shock again.

Please suggest : how proposing is modifying preceding clause. I am not able to understand .

Hello again, imSKR. I think you might benefit from examining the two answers side by side, along with the sentence, of course, and then condensing the structure to make everything easier to follow. First, take note of the differences:

Quote:
Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically charged in the Pacific Northwest, politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, instead of which they proposed a series of smaller steps, by which they intend to protect the fish.

B. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, proposing instead a series of smaller steps intended

C. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan for protecting wild salmon and other endangered fish, and instead they proposed a series of smaller steps, intending


Lucky for us, the underlined portion is self-contained at the head, forming an independent clause on its own. The shell of the sentence:

Politicians decided to postpone [something] and instead propose [something else] to protect fish.

To be honest, I did not focus on the first split, between to protect and for protecting, even if I favored the former. The second split, however, convinced me that (B) was a better answer, and the third cemented that decision. The reason I placed more confidence in (B) at the second split is that the -ing modifier perfectly comments on the action of the preceding clause, politicians decided to postpone a plan, proposing instead something else. What is the problem? I think you may need to expand your view of the -ing modifier. In (C), the instead seems better placed after proposed, although I did not eliminate the answer choice on those grounds. At the end of the underlined portion, we have to decide whether the smaller steps were taken to protect the fish, as choice (B) indicates, or whether the politicians, by postponing one plan and proposing another, one that happened to involve a series of smaller steps, were intending to protect the fish. Notice how (B) places parallel elements in line with each other, while choice (C) does not:

(B) an ambitious plan [intended] to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish and
a series of smaller steps intended to protect the fish

(C) an ambitious plan for protecting wild salmon and other endangered fish and
a series of smaller steps, intending to protect the fish

Between the two options, (C) presents too many warning signals. (B) is much clearer and presents the ideas for the two plans in just about the same mold (nearly verbatim).

I hope that helps. Remember that grammatical conventions usually have kinks or exceptions somewhere. It is not that the -ing phrase in (C) could not work, but in SC questions, you are tasked with finding the best answer of the bunch, and for reasons I have drawn attention to above, I would shy away from (C).

Thank you for thinking to ask me about the question.

- Andrew
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Re: Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically [#permalink]
AndrewN wrote:
imSKR wrote:
Hi AndrewN Sir AjiteshArun

Quote:
B. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, proposing instead a series of smaller steps intended


Verb+ing is used for modifying the preceding clause ( doer should not be clear) OR result of an action mentioned in preceding clause.

P decided , proposing
( reference e.g.: using latest technology, engineer identified the problem; identify : using latest technology)
Decided proposing? – they are actions one after another . it should be decided to propose something . So , how proposing modify preceding clause.
After a thought, I rejected B.

For C , actions are one after another; exactly what I thought in B . 2 actions : decided and instead proposed. ( and instead is also right in one of the official question)

So I was confident with C option.

But you know in end , it was a shock again.

Please suggest : how proposing is modifying preceding clause. I am not able to understand .

Hello again, imSKR. I think you might benefit from examining the two answers side by side, along with the sentence, of course, and then condensing the structure to make everything easier to follow. First, take note of the differences:

Quote:
Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically charged in the Pacific Northwest, politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, instead of which they proposed a series of smaller steps, by which they intend to protect the fish.

B. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish, proposing instead a series of smaller steps intended

C. politicians decided to postpone by at least five years an ambitious plan for protecting wild salmon and other endangered fish, and instead they proposed a series of smaller steps, intending


Lucky for us, the underlined portion is self-contained at the head, forming an independent clause on its own. The shell of the sentence:

Politicians decided to postpone [something] and instead propose [something else] to protect fish.

To be honest, I did not focus on the first split, between to protect and for protecting, even if I favored the former. The second split, however, convinced me that (B) was a better answer, and the third cemented that decision. The reason I placed more confidence in (B) at the second split is that the -ing modifier perfectly comments on the action of the preceding clause, politicians decided to postpone a plan, proposing instead something else. What is the problem? I think you may need to expand your view of the -ing modifier. In (C), the instead seems better placed after proposed, although I did not eliminate the answer choice on those grounds. At the end of the underlined portion, we have to decide whether the smaller steps were taken to protect the fish, as choice (B) indicates, or whether the politicians, by postponing one plan and proposing another, one that happened to involve a series of smaller steps, were intending to protect the fish. Notice how (B) places parallel elements in line with each other, while choice (C) does not:

(B) an ambitious plan [intended] to protect wild salmon and other endangered fish and
a series of smaller steps intended to protect the fish

(C) an ambitious plan for protecting wild salmon and other endangered fish and
a series of smaller steps, intending to protect the fish

Between the two options, (C) presents too many warning signals. (B) is much clearer and presents the ideas for the two plans in just about the same mold (nearly verbatim).

I hope that helps. Remember that grammatical conventions usually have kinks or exceptions somewhere. It is not that the -ing phrase in (C) could not work, but in SC questions, you are tasked with finding the best answer of the bunch, and for reasons I have drawn attention to above, I would shy away from (C).

Thank you for thinking to ask me about the question.

- Andrew


I am amazed with your explanation. After reading i could clearly see B as winner.

I still have some doubt. I read in @e-gmat verbal notes that :
Noun xxxx, verbing xx. ( this noun should be doer of verb + ing . But today i come across another question in which i didn't see noun as doer of verb + ing. I think i have some gap in understanding . I am sure asking you would definitely be helpful .
The number of people flying first class on domestic flights rose sharply in 1990, doubling the increase of the previous year.- I don't see any DOER of underline sentence. In our above sentence , Doer ( i.e. politician) is clear.
( Link: https://gmatclub.com/forum/the-number-o ... 78-20.html)
So If result of preceding clause, can i say , Doer may not be explicitly mentioned but if modify previous clause ( verb) then noun is doer.

your comments AndrewN sir.
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imSKR wrote:
I am amazed with your explanation. After reading i could clearly see B as winner.

I still have some doubt. I read in @e-gmat verbal notes that :
Noun xxxx, verbing xx. ( this noun should be doer of verb + ing . But today i come across another question in which i didn't see noun as doer of verb + ing. I think i have some gap in understanding . I am sure asking you would definitely be helpful .
The number of people flying first class on domestic flights rose sharply in 1990, doubling the increase of the previous year.- I don't see any DOER of underline sentence. In our above sentence , Doer ( i.e. politician) is clear.
( Link: https://gmatclub.com/forum/the-number-o ... 78-20.html)
So If result of preceding clause, can i say , Doer may not be explicitly mentioned but if modify previous clause ( verb) then noun is doer.

your comments AndrewN sir.

To be honest, I do not think too rigidly (e.g., with a doer or a must) when it comes to the application of grammatical conventions. Yes, I myself like to think that if something looks off, perhaps I am simply seeing an exception to what I think is a rule. Provided the so-called exception checks out, I simply add that new insight to my understanding of the concept and move on, wondering what I might encounter next.

You might find this response by Mike McGarry on the topic of the -ing modifier to be of interest. I hope it helps.

- Andrew
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Re: Finally reaching a decision on an issue that has long been politically [#permalink]
GMATNinja, Dear GMATNinjaTwo, VeritasKarishma, AnthonyRitz, CJAnish, MartyTargetTestPrep,AndrewN,VeritasPrepBrian

I cannot understand why C is incorrect.
the intention of small steps is also to protect fish.
the v-ing modifier modifies the preceding clause that they instead propose small steps.

please help.

my mock of official GMAT prep 3&4 is 590, 600, I need to get 700+ before the end of Dec this year.
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zoezhuyan wrote:
GMATNinja, Dear GMATNinjaTwo, VeritasKarishma, AnthonyRitz, CJAnish, MartyTargetTestPrep,AndrewN,VeritasPrepBrian

I cannot understand why C is incorrect.
the intention of small steps is also to protect fish.
the v-ing modifier modifies the preceding clause that they instead propose small steps.

please help.

my mock of official GMAT prep 3&4 is 590, 600, I need to get 700+ before the end of Dec this year.

Hello, zoezhuyan. I have written a detailed post just above, here, on why choice (C) is suboptimal. Please let me know if it does not clarify your concerns.

As for your GMAT™ goal, I would urge you to focus on the questions themselves and their underpinnings instead of placing your success or failure in the balance with an end date of 31 December. Too much pressure will not allow you to think clearly and gain the sorts of insights that will help your score increase on its own. As much as you can, relax. Take in a few questions at a time and relish them; take the time to understand them, inside and out. Before you know it, a 600 can turn into a 650, and a 650 can grow into a 700.

- Andrew
GMAT Club Bot
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