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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 08 Jul 2018, 01:44
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Let's say that we have 100 people participating in the survey.

There are Subscribers and Non subscribers, and then there are people >35 or <35

Subscribers say that 30 were subscribers and <35
Advertisers say that most of the orders (more than 50) were placed by people <35

The above two statements mean that at least 21 (51-30) people were non-subscribers who placed the orders.
And, we do not get any information on people equal to or more than the age 35 other than <49 people ordered from this group.

(A) More subscribers to Systems who have never ordered merchandise in response to advertisements in the magazine are age thirty-five or over than are under age thirty-five. We have no information on split of group equal to or>35.

(B) Among subscribers to Systems, the proportion who are under age thirty-five was considerably lower last year than it is now. We have no information an the data of people then and now.

(C) Most merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by Systems subscribers over age thirty-five. No. this is exact opposite to the information we have.

(D) Last year, the average dollar amount of merchandise orders placed was less for subscribers under age thirty-five than for those age thirty-five or over. We don't know the dollar value.

(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine. Correct choice.
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great explanation
yes, picking the number is the best way to do this kind of questions.
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 18 Nov 2018, 21:13
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of all merchandise orders placed by subscribers in response to advertisements in the magazine last year were placed by subscribers under age thirty-five.

Finding of a survey of advertisers in Systems magazine: Most of the merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by people under age thirty-five.

For both of the findings to be accurate, which of the following must be true?

(A) More subscribers to Systems who have never ordered merchandise in response to advertisements in the magazine are age thirty-five or over than are under age thirty-five.

(B) Among subscribers to Systems, the proportion who are under age thirty-five was considerably lower last year than it is now.

(C) Most merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by Systems subscribers over age thirty-five.

(D) Last year, the average dollar amount of merchandise orders placed was less for subscribers under age thirty-five than for those age thirty-five or over.

(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine.
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I have eliminated (A), (B) and (D). But i am confused with option (C). Why (C) is wrong? Please help VeritasKarishma

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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 19 Nov 2018, 05:45
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rashedBhai
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of all merchandise orders placed by subscribers in response to advertisements in the magazine last year were placed by subscribers under age thirty-five.

Finding of a survey of advertisers in Systems magazine: Most of the merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by people under age thirty-five.

For both of the findings to be accurate, which of the following must be true?

(A) More subscribers to Systems who have never ordered merchandise in response to advertisements in the magazine are age thirty-five or over than are under age thirty-five.

(B) Among subscribers to Systems, the proportion who are under age thirty-five was considerably lower last year than it is now.

(C) Most merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by Systems subscribers over age thirty-five.

(D) Last year, the average dollar amount of merchandise orders placed was less for subscribers under age thirty-five than for those age thirty-five or over.

(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine.
I have eliminated (A), (B) and (D). But i am confused with option (C). Why (C) is wrong? Please help VeritasKarishma

Posted from my mobile device
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A Tip: To ensure that I get to the query quickly, do drop in a link at this thread too:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/veritas-prep ... 78026.html

Helps me consolidate at the queries together! :)
Thank You!
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 30 Mar 2019, 02:14
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VeritasKarishma GMATNinja esledge

Finding of a survey of advertisers in Systems magazine: Most of the merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by people under age thirty-five.

I have a problem in interpreting the argument. How can a non-subscriber have access to the magazine's advertisement?

Most of the merchandise orders placed "in response to advertisements in Systems" last year were placed by people under age thirty-five.


Should I just assume that a non-subscriber has access to magazines advertisement

Please clarify my doubt.
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 14 Apr 2019, 12:52
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VeritasKarishma GMATNinja esledge

Finding of a survey of advertisers in Systems magazine: Most of the merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by people under age thirty-five.

I have a problem in interpreting the argument. How can a non-subscriber have access to the magazine's advertisement?

Most of the merchandise orders placed "in response to advertisements in Systems" last year were placed by people under age thirty-five.


Should I just assume that a non-subscriber has access to magazines advertisement

Please clarify my doubt.
Show more
Yes, for this passage to make sense non-subscribers must have access to the advertisements in the magazine.

The first piece of the passage deals only with subscribers who placed orders. In that group, thirty percent of those who placed orders were under 35. So, the majority of subscribers who placed orders were over 35.

The second piece of the passage deals with a wider group -- anyone who placed an order after seeing the advertisements. This would include both subscribers and non-subscribers (who perhaps looked through the magazine at their dentist's office or hair salon). In this wider group, the majority who placed orders were under 35.

I hope that helps!
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 14 Sep 2020, 05:34
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Hi GMATNinja VeritasKarishma

For E option , i get conflicting answer:
Quote:
(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine
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please suggest

Case1:
30: <35 age subscribers
70: > 35 age subscribers
Most of people below age of 35 gave orders
Assume
50: < 35 age non-subscribers

Total people below <35 = 100
Total below above >35= 70
100/170 – hold true argument
Option doesn’t hold true: because subscribers ( 100) and non-subscribers (50)

Case2:
Or (most people <35 who orders, but only 30 <35 subscribers)
30: <35 age subscribers
70: > 35 age subscribers
1000: < 35 age non-subscribers

1030/1100-argument hold true
E option Statement hold true


Case 1 doesnt hold true for option E . hence how E can be MUST BE TRUE?
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 16 Sep 2020, 23:57
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Hi GMATNinja VeritasKarishma

For E option , i get conflicting answer:
Quote:
(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine

please suggest

Case1:
30: <35 age subscribers
70: > 35 age subscribers
Most of people below age of 35 gave orders
Assume
50: < 35 age non-subscribers

Total people below <35 = 100
Total below above >35= 70
100/170 – hold true argument
Option doesn’t hold true: because subscribers ( 100) and non-subscribers (50)

Case2:
Or (most people <35 who orders, but only 30 <35 subscribers)
30: <35 age subscribers
70: > 35 age subscribers
1000: < 35 age non-subscribers

1030/1100-argument hold true
E option Statement hold true


Case 1 doesnt hold true for option E . hence how E can be MUST BE TRUE?
Show more

The data you are assuming is not correct.

Say there are 100 subscribers who order for merchandise in response to Ad. Out of these 100,
30 were young people
70 were old people

Then there are some non subscribers who placed order for merchandise in response to Ad.

So total number of orders in response to Ad must be greater than 100. Say they are 150.

Advertisers finding - They got 150 orders in response to Ad. They find that most orders (>50%) were from young people. This means more than 75 orders are from young people. But only 30 young subscribers ordered. so who are the other 45? Non subscribers.

Another way to look at it is as a weighted average problem.

30% subscribers were young.
x% non subscribers were young.

More than 50% total were young.

Then x must be quite a bit greater than 50 to bring the avg to 50%.
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 17 Sep 2020, 03:09
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Hi GMATNinja VeritasKarishma

Advertisers finding - They got 150 orders in response to Ad. They find that most orders (>50%) were from young people. This means more than 75 orders are from young people. But only 30 young subscribers ordered. so who are the other 45? Non subscribers.

Show more


Hi VeritasKarishma ,

In the example, 45 non-subscirbers are still less than 70 . Option E does n't say that many people below 35 age,placed more orders.
(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine
this is the confusion that 45 is still less than 100 ( 30+100). we have no idea about NON_SUBSCRIBERS (OVER_35 age)

what am i missing still? VeritasKarishma
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 17 Sep 2020, 07:37
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Hi GMATNinja VeritasKarishma

Advertisers finding - They got 150 orders in response to Ad. They find that most orders (>50%) were from young people. This means more than 75 orders are from young people. But only 30 young subscribers ordered. so who are the other 45? Non subscribers.



Hi VeritasKarishma ,

In the example, 45 non-subscirbers are still less than 70 . Option E does n't say that many people below 35 age,placed more orders.
(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine
this is the confusion that 45 is still less than 100 ( 30+100). we have no idea about NON_SUBSCRIBERS (OVER_35 age)

what am i missing still? VeritasKarishma
Show more


imSKR
i think you are missing a specific word in Option E mentioning "many" and not MOST. 45% is many :grin: if option E mentioned
"most " then i would not pick this option as a correct answer.

(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 23 Sep 2020, 04:44
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Hi GMATNinja VeritasKarishma

Advertisers finding - They got 150 orders in response to Ad. They find that most orders (>50%) were from young people. This means more than 75 orders are from young people. But only 30 young subscribers ordered. so who are the other 45? Non subscribers.




Hi VeritasKarishma ,

In the example, 45 non-subscirbers are still less than 70 . Option E does n't say that many people below 35 age,placed more orders.
(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine
this is the confusion that 45 is still less than 100 ( 30+100). we have no idea about NON_SUBSCRIBERS (OVER_35 age)

what am i missing still? VeritasKarishma


imSKR
i think you are missing a specific word in Option E mentioning "many" and not MOST. 45% is many :grin: if option E mentioned
"most " then i would not pick this option as a correct answer.

(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine


Can you please clarify?
Many can be anywhere more than 1 ?
Most needs to be over 50%?

My confusion is for option E: Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine
Show more
[/quote]

say total 150 orders
30: <35 age subscribers
70: > 35 age subscribers
Most of people below age of 35 gave orders

more than 50% of total <35 age means total 80 ( 50+% of 150)
it means non -subscribers <35 age = ( 80-30= 50)

Summary :-
total subscribers : 30+70 = 100
total non -subscribers = 80 ( lets say above 35 age non subscribers didn't order; all orders of non-subscribers were from
80 is less than 100

then 80 is many ? even 80 ( non-subscribers) is less than 100 ( subscribers)?

i am sorry , i am still confused.dave13

Hi AndrewN sir,
Can you help me to find out what silly mistake i am doing. :cry:
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 23 Sep 2020, 12:50
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say total 150 orders
30: <35 age subscribers
70: > 35 age subscribers
Most of people below age of 35 gave orders

more than 50% of total <35 age means total 80 ( 50+% of 150)
it means non -subscribers <35 age = ( 80-30= 50)

Summary :-
total subscribers : 30+70 = 100
total non -subscribers = 80 ( lets say above 35 age non subscribers didn't order; all orders of non-subscribers were from
80 is less than 100

then 80 is many ? even 80 ( non-subscribers) is less than 100 ( subscribers)?

i am sorry , i am still confused.dave13

Hi AndrewN sir,
Can you help me to find out what silly mistake i am doing. :cry:
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Hello, imSKR. I think you may be getting caught up too much in your numbers, at the expense of processing what the passage actually says. Look again. Since we already know the correct answer, I will omit the others. For ease of access, I will also use color coding.

Quote:
Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of all merchandise orders placed by subscribers in response to advertisements in the magazine last year were placed by subscribers under age thirty-five.

Finding of a survey of advertisers in Systems magazine: Most of the merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by people under age thirty-five.

For both of the findings to be accurate, which of the following must be true?

(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine.
Show more
Subscriber orders: 30 percent of all merchandise orders came from those under 35; therefore, 70 percent of all merchandise orders came from those 35 or older.

Total orders: More than 50 percent of all merchandise orders came from those under 35; therefore, fewer than 50 percent of all merchandise orders came from those 35 or older.

To reconcile this apparent discrepancy, it must be true that some unnamed group, one that we can call non-subscribers, placed orders in response to the ads in question, and, furthermore, that these non-subscribers must have included many people who were under 35. Otherwise, we would expect the subscriber data to hold, for the majority of all merchandise orders to have been placed by people 35 or older. Choice (E) has just what we are looking for, a reasonable way to account for the uptick in merchandise orders from the under-35 group. We do not need to get caught up in a numbers game. That is one way to rationalize the information. We can also imagine pouring liquid from two separate glasses into one larger pitcher. If we knew only about one glass with, say, less liquid and the total amount of liquid that ended up in the pitcher, we would be able to deduce what must have been in the other glass.

I hope that helps.

- Andrew
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 06 May 2021, 11:35
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I said (C). I don't understand how it can be (E) - you don't really have the information to determine how many non-subscribers placed orders, which is what (E) is talking about. For example, what if 100 subscribers placed orders, and 30 of them were under age 35, while only 5 non-subscribers placed orders, and 4 of them were under age 35? Then both findings are still correct, but (E) is false (unless we're going on some very arbitrary definition of "many").

No, you may have misinterpreted one of the two findings. The second finding says that most orders were placed by people under 35; that includes orders from both subscribers and non-subscribers. I think you are interpreting that finding to be about orders from non-subscribers only, but it's not. So in your hypothetical example, you have 105 orders in total, but still, only 34 orders come from people under the age of thirty-five. That isn't consistent with the second finding in the stem which tells us that most orders come from under-thirty-fives, so is not a possible scenario.

TehJay

(C) fits both findings the best. 70% of subscribers who placed orders were age 35 or over, a big majority. The only way to make (C) not true is if the number of non-subscribers who placed orders is larger than the number of subscribers who placed orders - and even then, you can't really determine whether or not the 30% of subscribers under 35 + the "most" of non-subscribers under 35 outnumber the 70% of subscribers + the remaining non-subscribers.

It's actually mathematically impossible for C to be true. Say you have S subscribers and N non-subscribers who placed orders. We know that 0.7S orders came from subscribers over thirty-five. Say you have X orders in total from non-subscribers over 35. We know from the second finding that less than half of all orders come from people over thirty-five, so:

(0.7S + X)/(N+S) < 1/2

But the proportion of all orders coming from subscribers over thirty-five is 0.7S/(N+S), and this is clearly less than the left side of the inequality above, so must be less than one half. So it's impossible for 'most' orders to have come from subscribers over thirty-five, and C cannot be true.
Show more


But 'E' may not be true always.
For example let us consider the following figures.
Total orders by subscribers = 100 ( 30 by <35 age ; 70 by >35 age group)
Total orders by non subscribers = 55 ( 50 by <35 age ; 5 by >35 age group) (since nothing was mentioned about the distribution of orders by non subscribers)
Hence total orders by <35 age group = 30+50 = 80
Total orders by >35 age group = 70+5 = 75

Please guide where I made a mistake in assuming the above figures.

Thanks in advance
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 08 May 2021, 02:27
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TehJay
I said (C). I don't understand how it can be (E) - you don't really have the information to determine how many non-subscribers placed orders, which is what (E) is talking about. For example, what if 100 subscribers placed orders, and 30 of them were under age 35, while only 5 non-subscribers placed orders, and 4 of them were under age 35? Then both findings are still correct, but (E) is false (unless we're going on some very arbitrary definition of "many").

No, you may have misinterpreted one of the two findings. The second finding says that most orders were placed by people under 35; that includes orders from both subscribers and non-subscribers. I think you are interpreting that finding to be about orders from non-subscribers only, but it's not. So in your hypothetical example, you have 105 orders in total, but still, only 34 orders come from people under the age of thirty-five. That isn't consistent with the second finding in the stem which tells us that most orders come from under-thirty-fives, so is not a possible scenario.

TehJay

(C) fits both findings the best. 70% of subscribers who placed orders were age 35 or over, a big majority. The only way to make (C) not true is if the number of non-subscribers who placed orders is larger than the number of subscribers who placed orders - and even then, you can't really determine whether or not the 30% of subscribers under 35 + the "most" of non-subscribers under 35 outnumber the 70% of subscribers + the remaining non-subscribers.

It's actually mathematically impossible for C to be true. Say you have S subscribers and N non-subscribers who placed orders. We know that 0.7S orders came from subscribers over thirty-five. Say you have X orders in total from non-subscribers over 35. We know from the second finding that less than half of all orders come from people over thirty-five, so:

(0.7S + X)/(N+S) < 1/2

But the proportion of all orders coming from subscribers over thirty-five is 0.7S/(N+S), and this is clearly less than the left side of the inequality above, so must be less than one half. So it's impossible for 'most' orders to have come from subscribers over thirty-five, and C cannot be true.


But 'E' may not be true always.
For example let us consider the following figures.
Total orders by subscribers = 100 ( 30 by <35 age ; 70 by >35 age group)
Total orders by non subscribers = 55 ( 50 by <35 age ; 5 by >35 age group) (since nothing was mentioned about the distribution of orders by non subscribers)
Hence total orders by <35 age group = 30+50 = 80
Total orders by >35 age group = 70+5 = 75

Please guide where I made a mistake in assuming the above figures.

Thanks in advance
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I pacified myself with the following understanding of "many".

“Many" could mean several, more than a few. “Most" means the majority of whatever you're referring to, such as “Most people are right-handed.” Most means more than half and many simply means some.

Now we can choose E as the answer.
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 08 Mar 2022, 02:45
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of all merchandise orders placed by subscribers in response to advertisements in the magazine last year were placed by subscribers under age thirty-five.

Finding of a survey of advertisers in Systems magazine: Most of the merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by people under age thirty-five.

For both of the findings to be accurate, which of the following must be true?


(A) More subscribers to Systems who have never ordered merchandise in response to advertisements in the magazine are age thirty-five or over than are under age thirty-five.

(B) Among subscribers to Systems, the proportion who are under age thirty-five was considerably lower last year than it is now.

(C) Most merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by Systems subscribers over age thirty-five.

(D) Last year, the average dollar amount of merchandise orders placed was less for subscribers under age thirty-five than for those age thirty-five or over.

(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine.
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I've written a (quite detailed) solution for this question on this link: https://gmatwithcj.com/critical-reasoni ... bscribers/
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Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers: Thirty percent of 06 Oct 2023, 09:51
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Understanding the argument
Let's take All merchandise orders based on the response to the advertisement to X.
Now, the first statement says 0.3X were placed by subscribers < 35 years of age. Of course, the rest are placed by SUBSCRIBERS more than equal to 35 years of age.
The 2nd statement says - more than 0.5X is by PEOPLE > 35 years of age.
Logically, we can deduce that many PEOPLE who placed orders were not SUBSCRIBERS. That's what E shares.

Option Elimination -

(A) More subscribers to Systems who have never ordered merchandise in response to advertisements in the magazine are age thirty-five or over than are under age thirty-five. Subscribers who never placed an order are out of scope.

(B) Among subscribers to Systems, the proportion who are under age thirty-five was considerably lower last year than it is now. We don't know anything about NOW. Out of scope.

(C) Most merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by Systems subscribers over age thirty-five. Opposite of what was given. What's given is that most orders are placed by people below 35.

(D) Last year, the average dollar amount of merchandise orders placed was less for subscribers under age thirty-five than for those age thirty-five or over. The dollar amount is not the scope of the argument. Out of scope.

(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine. Ok.
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