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Hello Moderators,

Was there something wrong with my explanation? as I didn't receive the kudos on this one!
adityaprateek15
The argument is trying to establish a causal link: Certification -> More likely to leave. To weaken this, we need to find an alternative explanation for the discrepancy (18% vs. 8%) or show that the 8% figure is not a good representative of overall comparison.

(A) Most engineers who leave company Z within their first year do so voluntarily, often for positions at competing firms. This explains why engineers leave but this reason is applicable to all employees not just the one who holds that certification. Incorrect.

(B) Company Z does not provide incentives for employees to obtain professional certifications. This is about company policy regarding certifications. It doesn't explain the discrepancy in percentages or weaken the link between certification and leaving. Incorrect.

(C) Engineers are not required to report certifications they obtained prior to joining the company.
Hang on! If engineers are not required to report certifications obtained before joining then the 8% figure from the HR survey might be an underestimate of the true percentage of all engineers at Company Z who hold the certification The 8% might only reflect certifications obtained after joining or only those who chose to report. This raises doubt in the causal link established by the argument. Keep.

(D) The majority of engineers at company Z work in teams that use agile methodologies. This choice is irrelevant. If anything, this might make one less likely to leave if their skills are being utilized. Incorrect.

(E) Some engineers obtain their agile project management certification only after joining the company. This is consistent with the argument. If they get it after joining, they would be included in the 8% survey. But this doesn't explain why so many employees quit within a year. In fact, if they get it after joining and then leave it might even strengthen the idea that the certification is linked to leaving.
Option C is best.

Bunuel
In a recent calendar year, several engineers both joined and left Company Z. Among engineers who left within their first year of employment, 18 percent held an agile-project-management certification. Yet only 8 percent of all engineers who completed the annual HR survey reported holding that certification. Therefore, possessing the certification appears to make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the argument?

(A) Most engineers who leave company Z within their first year do so voluntarily, often for positions at competing firms.
(B) Company Z does not provide incentives for employees to obtain professional certifications.
(C) Engineers are not required to report certifications they obtained prior to joining the company.
(D) The majority of engineers at company Z work in teams that use agile methodologies.
(E) Some engineers obtain their agile project management certification only after joining the company.


 


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adityaprateek15
Hello Moderators,

Was there something wrong with my explanation? as I didn't receive the kudos on this one!

Hi. After reviewing this explanation, the moderator team concluded that it was AI-assisted.
However, we have gone and provided Kudos this time.
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Hi and thank you for the feedback sanya511!

Yes, it is likely that the numbers of people leaving are tiny and the people staying are huge. Maybe 18 people left and 1000 stayed among which 80 hold the certification. That is expected. Because the people leaving are leaving in the first year, while people staying would be a larger base, much larger since it includes people who stayed and did not leave after just 1 year.

However, it is not really an issue for the question I think or let me know if you think it is.
Appreciate the feedback. This question has gotten massaged quite a bit by me and it is possible it may have lost some of the original flavor the writer intended. :-o


sanya511
Bunuel
I could come to an answer by understanding what the question probably meant, but the question is very confusing to understand. It states that 'x' amount of engineers left the company within their first year of employment, and 0.18x held the certification. So the rest 0.82x did not hold the certification. Now there is this annual HR survey that showed only had 8 percent of engineers holding that certification. So was this survey before the the engineers leaving, after the engineers leaving? Did those engineers fill the form? We already know that 18 percent of the engineers leaving had the certification.

What I first thought after reading was, 18% held the certification, some left, now only 8% hold the certification. So 10% engineers holding that certification left. Now I think this means that, there is x percent of people leaving, and there is y percent of people staying: 18%x sounds so much more than 8%y. There are more people holding the certificate who left compared to people holding it that stayed. But then again, we don't know the actual values of x and y. There could be a lot lesser people who left than people who stayed (y>x) and thus 8%y could just be much more than 18%x.
Bunuel
In a recent calendar year, several engineers both joined and left Company Z. Among engineers who left within their first year of employment, 18 percent held an agile-project-management certification. Yet only 8 percent of all engineers who completed the annual HR survey reported holding that certification. Therefore, possessing the certification appears to make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the argument?

(A) Most engineers who leave company Z within their first year do so voluntarily, often for positions at competing firms.
(B) Company Z does not provide incentives for employees to obtain professional certifications.
(C) Engineers are not required to report certifications they obtained prior to joining the company.
(D) The majority of engineers at company Z work in teams that use agile methodologies.
(E) Some engineers obtain their agile project management certification only after joining the company.


 


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i am still not clear about option c because if people had the certificate before they joined company, the certificate still can be the reason for leaving company Z, because the Argument is not telling that certificate is provided by company Z.......?? and also it is not clear that certificate is not required before joining which company ?


here what i thought that if certificate is not required prior to join new company after leaving company Z, then probably certificate is not the reason for leaving company Z.:angel:
ManifestDreamMBA
In a recent calendar year, several engineers both joined and left Company Z. Among engineers who left within their first year of employment, 18 percent held an agile-project-management certification. Yet only 8 percent of all engineers who completed the annual HR survey reported holding that certification. Therefore, possessing the certification appears to make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.

Prethinking:
What if the reporting is incorrect or not everyone completed the annual HR survey?

(A) Most engineers who leave company Z within their first year do so voluntarily, often for positions at competing firms. We do not care about why engineers leave but want to focus on if possessing the certification does make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.
(B) Company Z does not provide incentives for employees to obtain professional certifications. This has no effect on the conclusion. May be people are doing it for other reasons
(C) Engineers are not required to report certifications they obtained prior to joining the company. This suggests underreporting. May be people had the certificate before they joined the company and hence is a weakner
(D) The majority of engineers at company Z work in teams that use agile methodologies. We don't care if the majority uses it. We want to focus on if possessing the certification does make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.
(E) Some engineers obtain their agile project management certification only after joining the company. That's alright, but we don't know if it's the first year or seasoned folks

Bunuel
In a recent calendar year, several engineers both joined and left Company Z. Among engineers who left within their first year of employment, 18 percent held an agile-project-management certification. Yet only 8 percent of all engineers who completed the annual HR survey reported holding that certification. Therefore, possessing the certification appears to make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the argument?

(A) Most engineers who leave company Z within their first year do so voluntarily, often for positions at competing firms.
(B) Company Z does not provide incentives for employees to obtain professional certifications.
(C) Engineers are not required to report certifications they obtained prior to joining the company.
(D) The majority of engineers at company Z work in teams that use agile methodologies.
(E) Some engineers obtain their agile project management certification only after joining the company.


 


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In my view, the issue isn’t about whether the engineers obtained the certificate before or after joining the company; it’s really about whether engineers who hold the certificate are more likely to leave, as suggested by the passage.

The reason why choice C is correct is this: What if the HR data is actually wrong? For example, if the true percentage of engineers who hold the certificate is 20%, then the fact that only 18% of those who left had the certificate would actually be lower than the overall proportion. That would weaken the argument that having the certificate is the cause of engineers leaving the company, because it shows the supposed correlation might not even exist.
shaliny
i am still not clear about option c because if people had the certificate before they joined company, the certificate still can be the reason for leaving company Z, because the Argument is not telling that certificate is provided by company Z.......?? and also it is not clear that certificate is not required before joining which company ?


here what i thought that if certificate is not required prior to join new company after leaving company Z, then probably certificate is not the reason for leaving company Z.:angel:
ManifestDreamMBA
In a recent calendar year, several engineers both joined and left Company Z. Among engineers who left within their first year of employment, 18 percent held an agile-project-management certification. Yet only 8 percent of all engineers who completed the annual HR survey reported holding that certification. Therefore, possessing the certification appears to make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.

Prethinking:
What if the reporting is incorrect or not everyone completed the annual HR survey?

(A) Most engineers who leave company Z within their first year do so voluntarily, often for positions at competing firms. We do not care about why engineers leave but want to focus on if possessing the certification does make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.
(B) Company Z does not provide incentives for employees to obtain professional certifications. This has no effect on the conclusion. May be people are doing it for other reasons
(C) Engineers are not required to report certifications they obtained prior to joining the company. This suggests underreporting. May be people had the certificate before they joined the company and hence is a weakner
(D) The majority of engineers at company Z work in teams that use agile methodologies. We don't care if the majority uses it. We want to focus on if possessing the certification does make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.
(E) Some engineers obtain their agile project management certification only after joining the company. That's alright, but we don't know if it's the first year or seasoned folks

Bunuel
In a recent calendar year, several engineers both joined and left Company Z. Among engineers who left within their first year of employment, 18 percent held an agile-project-management certification. Yet only 8 percent of all engineers who completed the annual HR survey reported holding that certification. Therefore, possessing the certification appears to make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the argument?

(A) Most engineers who leave company Z within their first year do so voluntarily, often for positions at competing firms.
(B) Company Z does not provide incentives for employees to obtain professional certifications.
(C) Engineers are not required to report certifications they obtained prior to joining the company.
(D) The majority of engineers at company Z work in teams that use agile methodologies.
(E) Some engineers obtain their agile project management certification only after joining the company.


 


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i request to Karishma B. and Chetan2u to shed some light on this argument, please
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bb
I think it is an issue for the question since we are required to find a flaw, and the premise that the argument and the options are based on completely ignores the fact that the percentages given to us could mean nothing, because they dont really tell us what is going on. The flaw in the logic is that we don't really know anything about the bases, and thus there should have been an option that went something like -"the number of engineers who stayed was 1000 and the number of people who left was 18 (thus there are actually more people who hold the certificate that stayed compared to those who left)" . This option would have made the argument based on percentages completely baseless and hence actually highlighted the flaw in the reasoning, hence most seriously weakened the argument.

Or else the question could have been framed in this way: About 18% of all the engineers in the company held the certificate. Many left within the first year. Among those that remained long enough to give the annual survey, only 8% said they had the certification. Now this gives a basis for the argument that "people with the certification are more likely to leave". Because I don't think we can compare percentages of two completely different bases.

If my concerns are baseless, please let me know where I went wrong. Thankyou : )
bb
Hi and thank you for the feedback sanya511!

Yes, it is likely that the numbers of people leaving are tiny and the people staying are huge. Maybe 18 people left and 1000 stayed among which 80 hold the certification. That is expected. Because the people leaving are leaving in the first year, while people staying would be a larger base, much larger since it includes people who stayed and did not leave after just 1 year.

However, it is not really an issue for the question I think or let me know if you think it is.
Appreciate the feedback. This question has gotten massaged quite a bit by me and it is possible it may have lost some of the original flavor the writer intended. :-o


sanya511
Bunuel
I could come to an answer by understanding what the question probably meant, but the question is very confusing to understand. It states that 'x' amount of engineers left the company within their first year of employment, and 0.18x held the certification. So the rest 0.82x did not hold the certification. Now there is this annual HR survey that showed only had 8 percent of engineers holding that certification. So was this survey before the the engineers leaving, after the engineers leaving? Did those engineers fill the form? We already know that 18 percent of the engineers leaving had the certification.

What I first thought after reading was, 18% held the certification, some left, now only 8% hold the certification. So 10% engineers holding that certification left. Now I think this means that, there is x percent of people leaving, and there is y percent of people staying: 18%x sounds so much more than 8%y. There are more people holding the certificate who left compared to people holding it that stayed. But then again, we don't know the actual values of x and y. There could be a lot lesser people who left than people who stayed (y>x) and thus 8%y could just be much more than 18%x.
Bunuel
In a recent calendar year, several engineers both joined and left Company Z. Among engineers who left within their first year of employment, 18 percent held an agile-project-management certification. Yet only 8 percent of all engineers who completed the annual HR survey reported holding that certification. Therefore, possessing the certification appears to make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the argument?

(A) Most engineers who leave company Z within their first year do so voluntarily, often for positions at competing firms.
(B) Company Z does not provide incentives for employees to obtain professional certifications.
(C) Engineers are not required to report certifications they obtained prior to joining the company.
(D) The majority of engineers at company Z work in teams that use agile methodologies.
(E) Some engineers obtain their agile project management certification only after joining the company.


 


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can you explain how C choice weakens the conclusion?annual HR survey will be conducted after the employee has left since it is yearly. So if people didn't report that means it might not be less but actually more and hence weakening the conclusion. Is this the explanation?

Archit3110
the argument states that in company z Among engineers who left within their first year of employment, 18 percent held an agile-project-management certification.
and only 8 percent of all engineers who completed the annual HR survey reported holding that certification
conclusion : Therefore, possessing the certification appears to make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the argument?

(A) Most engineers who leave company Z within their first year do so voluntarily, often for positions at competing firms. ; the option is a strengthening the conclusion
(B) Company Z does not provide incentives for employees to obtain professional certifications. the reasoning provided does not weaken the conclusion , but strengthens the conclusion.
(C) Engineers are not required to report certifications they obtained prior to joining the company. this options weakens the conclusion strongly
(D) The majority of engineers at company Z work in teams that use agile methodologies. ; gives reason why people who do not have certificate should get one ..
(E) Some engineers obtain their agile project management certification only after joining the company. does not provide reason to weaken conclusion

OPTION C is correct

Bunuel
In a recent calendar year, several engineers both joined and left Company Z. Among engineers who left within their first year of employment, 18 percent held an agile-project-management certification. Yet only 8 percent of all engineers who completed the annual HR survey reported holding that certification. Therefore, possessing the certification appears to make an engineer more likely to leave Company Z within a year of being hired.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the argument?

(A) Most engineers who leave company Z within their first year do so voluntarily, often for positions at competing firms.
(B) Company Z does not provide incentives for employees to obtain professional certifications.
(C) Engineers are not required to report certifications they obtained prior to joining the company.
(D) The majority of engineers at company Z work in teams that use agile methodologies.
(E) Some engineers obtain their agile project management certification only after joining the company.


 


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The argument compares two groups:
  1. The Subgroup: Engineers who leave within a year.
  2. The General Population: All engineers at Company Z (as represented by the survey takers).

The argument finds that the rate of certification in the "leaver" subgroup (18%) is significantly higher than the rate in the general population (8%). From this, it concludes there's a link between the certification and leaving.

This is an acceptable line of reasoning.
The fact that the two percentages come from different base groups (people with heart disease vs. the general population) is not a flaw; it is the entire point of the comparison.

The "Different Bases" and "Absolute Numbers"

You are correct that the bases are different. But as explained above, that's by design. Your proposed answer choice highlights a key misunderstanding between absolute numbers and rates (or likelihood).

Let's use our example:

  • 1000 engineers took the survey. 8% are certified = 80 certified engineers.
  • Let's say 50 engineers left in their first year. 18% are certified = 9 certified engineers.

You are arguing that since 80 is much larger than 9, more certified people stayed than left. This is true in absolute terms but it does not matter because the argument is about likelihood.
  • An engineer in the "leaver" group had an 18% chance of being certified.
  • An engineer in the general "employee" group had an 8% chance of being certified.

Since 18% > 8%, the data shows that possessing the certification made an engineer more likely to be in the "leaver" group. Your proposed answer about absolute numbers would not weaken this conclusion about likelihood. This is one of the most common distinctions tested on the GMAT.


P.S.

Your rewritten version is really good! It makes the logic much clearer:
Quote:
"About 18% of all the engineers in the company held the certificate. Many left within the first year. Among those that remained... only 8% said they had the certification."
We may have intentionally written the question in the more complex way to make it harder ... but I like your version so I will update it to be more clean and less convoluted.

sanya511
bb
I think it is an issue for the question since we are required to find a flaw, and the premise that the argument and the options are based on completely ignores the fact that the percentages given to us could mean nothing, because they dont really tell us what is going on. The flaw in the logic is that we don't really know anything about the bases, and thus there should have been an option that went something like -"the number of engineers who stayed was 1000 and the number of people who left was 18 (thus there are actually more people who hold the certificate that stayed compared to those who left)" . This option would have made the argument based on percentages completely baseless and hence actually highlighted the flaw in the reasoning, hence most seriously weakened the argument.

Or else the question could have been framed in this way: About 18% of all the engineers in the company held the certificate. Many left within the first year. Among those that remained long enough to give the annual survey, only 8% said they had the certification. Now this gives a basis for the argument that "people with the certification are more likely to leave". Because I don't think we can compare percentages of two completely different bases.

If my concerns are baseless, please let me know where I went wrong. Thankyou : )
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