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HBS Waitlist: (2019 Intake) Class of 2021

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HBS Waitlist: (2019 Intake) Class of 2021  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Dec 2018, 01:16
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Re: HBS Waitlist: (2019 Intake) Class of 2021  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Dec 2018, 16:49
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Guys, what are your plans to get off the waitlist?

Posted from my mobile device
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New post 11 Dec 2018, 17:25
Did anyone reply to Eileen's email?

And what are people's views on staying silent vs. providing (meaningful) updates?
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New post 11 Dec 2018, 17:58
are we supposed to reply to Eileen's email to accept our spots on the waitlist..?
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New post 11 Dec 2018, 17:59
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also - WL forum from last year was pretty empty, but class of 2019 was very active and helpful for me this past hour haha
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Re: HBS Waitlist: (2019 Intake) Class of 2021  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Dec 2018, 19:57
I didn't respond to Eileen.

ibanker93 wrote:
Did anyone reply to Eileen's email?

And what are people's views on staying silent vs. providing (meaningful) updates?
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New post 12 Dec 2018, 06:51
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plmnkoijb wrote:
also - WL forum from last year was pretty empty, but class of 2019 was very active and helpful for me this past hour haha

from this forum?
How do you know the class of 2019?
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HBS Waitlist: (2019 Intake) Class of 2021  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Dec 2018, 06:53
OmManiPadmeHbs wrote:
I didn't respond to Eileen.

ibanker93 wrote:
Did anyone reply to Eileen's email?

And what are people's views on staying silent vs. providing (meaningful) updates?


I did not respond either. Are we supposed to do something to accept the spot on the waitlist?

I went through some posts from prior years - Nate from the Ivy consultant group said we should provide some updates. Others said that we should not do anything.

What do you guys think?

It has just been 2-3 months, I don't have any updates regarding my job or ECs per say to write an update letter lol.
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New post 12 Dec 2018, 10:16
bondtradercu wrote:
OmManiPadmeHbs wrote:
I didn't respond to Eileen.

ibanker93 wrote:
Did anyone reply to Eileen's email?

And what are people's views on staying silent vs. providing (meaningful) updates?


I did not respond either. Are we supposed to do something to accept the spot on the waitlist?

I went through some posts from prior years - Nate from the Ivy consultant group said we should provide some updates. Others said that we should not do anything.

What do you guys think?

It has just been 2-3 months, I don't have any updates regarding my job or ECs per say to write an update letter lol.


it seemed like it was a mixed bag in terms of acceptances (people who did submit other items, people who did not submit other items)
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New post 12 Dec 2018, 11:06
bondtradercu wrote:
Guys, what are your plans to get off the waitlist?

Posted from my mobile device


I responded to Eileen to confirm that I plan on staying on the waitlist but the instructions are pretty clear, they don't want any update unless they ask for it. I won't be sending anything unless I'm asked to send. It appears that the WL is really based on luck, "rounding out" the class and however close you were in the admissions board's discussion (I know they said there's no ranking but there must be some form of preference if say a "consultant" spot opened up). A lot of it must be luck. I'm just surprised by how much people seem to have been waitlisted this year (not absolute number but just proportionally to the amount of people who reported accepts/were interviewed).

Another question I have and I'm curious to know what yall think is how do we think not having round 3 this year will affect round 2 applications and for our purpose since we are on the waitlist, how does not having round 3 influence round 1 waitlist? Is it for the better? Does that mean they'll a little bit more spots? (probably not) Does that mean we get an answer a little faster? (March instead of June?).

I'm very disappointed by the decision but like most of friends/family told me yesterday, it's better than a straight up no. Good luck everyone.

PS: MBA Mission has a free PDF guide on wait lists and I'd recommend that as additional reading.
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New post 12 Dec 2018, 11:14
ibanker93 wrote:
Did anyone reply to Eileen's email?



it seemed like it was a mixed bag in terms of acceptances (people who did submit other items, people who did not submit other items)


Thanks - what did your friends say they submitted as additional items that helped them?
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New post 12 Dec 2018, 11:15
bendalusma wrote:
bondtradercu wrote:
Guys, what are your plans to get off the waitlist?

Posted from my mobile device


I responded to Eileen to confirm that I plan on staying on the waitlist but the instructions are pretty clear, they don't want any update unless they ask for it. I won't be sending anything unless I'm asked to send. It appears that the WL is really based on luck, "rounding out" the class and however close you were in the admissions board's discussion (I know they said there's no ranking but there must be some form of preference if say a "consultant" spot opened up). A lot of it must be luck. I'm just surprised by how much people seem to have been waitlisted this year (not absolute number but just proportionally to the amount of people who reported accepts/were interviewed).

Another question I have and I'm curious to know what yall think is how do we think not having round 3 this year will affect round 2 applications and for our purpose since we are on the waitlist, how does not having round 3 influence round 1 waitlist? Is it for the better? Does that mean they'll a little bit more spots? (probably not) Does that mean we get an answer a little faster? (March instead of June?).

I'm very disappointed by the decision but like most of friends/family told me yesterday, it's better than a straight up no. Good luck everyone.

PS: MBA Mission has a free PDF guide on wait lists and I'd recommend that as additional reading.


yeah - definitely not June. We should all know by end of March I believe.

How many people do they usually waitlist each year? around 300? and they take 50-60 right?
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Re: HBS Waitlist: (2019 Intake) Class of 2021  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Dec 2018, 11:18
bondtradercu wrote:
ibanker93 wrote:
Did anyone reply to Eileen's email?



it seemed like it was a mixed bag in terms of acceptances (people who did submit other items, people who did not submit other items)


Thanks - what did your friends say they submitted as additional items that helped them?


two friends got promoted between thanksgiving and the new year, so they sent in updates on their promotions (and then got in)

another (banker) had a big deal close and sent that in
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New post 12 Dec 2018, 11:59
plmnkoijb wrote:
bondtradercu wrote:
ibanker93 wrote:
Did anyone reply to Eileen's email?



it seemed like it was a mixed bag in terms of acceptances (people who did submit other items, people who did not submit other items)


Thanks - what did your friends say they submitted as additional items that helped them?


two friends got promoted between thanksgiving and the new year, so they sent in updates on their promotions (and then got in)

another (banker) had a big deal close and sent that in


Thanks! did the banker get in as well? So mostly updates from work?
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New post 20 Dec 2018, 06:13
While HBS says that they don't need any additional information, what we see year over year with the waitlists is that silence is leaden. No adcom is going to punish you for sending in thoughtful, artfully constructed, and infrequent updates. You can use that opening to fix your narrative and provide substantive updates.

You figure, everyone applying to Round 2 is going to gain 3 additional months of accomplishments. Many individuals on the waitlist will be mounting influence campaigns, getting everyone and their mother to contact the admissions committee on their behalf. The way we see things is that it is absolutely possible to be admitted without saying anything, but you have a better chance of doing so by communicating with the adcom and keeping your application current.

Once you realize that, the second challenge is in what to tell the adcom. We estimate that 90% of the waitlist clients that we work with are placed on the waitlist due to deficiencies in their narrative. If you keep telling that same flawed narrative to the adcom, there will likely be no difference in the result. Therefore before you send anything into the adcom, first analyze your existing story for deficiencies and then build a new narrative (bounded by the facts of your first application) that will speak to their emotions, values, and logic.
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New post 20 Dec 2018, 09:27
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Hi Nate,

Thanks for the help. If you'll allow me the chance to play devil's advocate here, I'm someone who is currently R1 waitlisted (after being admitted to Wharton, Booth), and having received advice from 2 different top consulting companies (SBC and HBSGuru), the clear advice I received was not to submit an update unless it's (a) a job change or (b) a significant new award. (And that of course, if you know a major donor or CEO, getting them to vouch on your behalf isn't a bad idea). I've also been in touch with a few current HBS students who have said that among their cohort, the people who were ultimately admitted from the WL were those who didn't submit updates, and those who did submit updates were not admitted (among the people they knew).

Given all of that, it just seems incredibly risky to do anything but wait (for HBS - other schools are obviously a different story). While it's hard to play the waiting game and remain silent, that's the overwhelming advice I've been given. I find it hard to believe that at this stage, having received an interview (and in my case, done as well as I could've expected), that my narrative is what's holding me back. I suspect that there's someone who looks a lot like me from a more prestigious firm, with better scores, or with better work experience / awards who was admitted, and so they're waiting until they see their round 2 pool before deciding whether to admit me.

Apologies if this all comes off a bit combative. I'm just curious if you can articulate exactly why you're confident an update campaign is the best approach. At the very least it seems to be high risk, but maybe I'm missing something.

Thanks!
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New post 20 Dec 2018, 13:29
​Hi bschool51, Great questions and no offense taken - thanks for your thoughtful response!

The reason why we at Ivy Admissions Group suggest sending in waitlist letters is because that is what has worked for our clients in the past. We actually got our start by only offering waitlist services, the techniques for which we developed after getting ourselves into HBS, Wharton and GSB off the waitlist, and then helping our friends (and then friends of friends) to do the same. Of the more than a dozen clients that choose to work with us each year on mounting waitlist campaigns, we succeed in getting about two-thirds into their specific school of choice.

Having personally worked with dozens of waitlist clients in the past, by far the most common problem with a candidate's application is with their narrative story. There has been a proliferation of research into which messages are most effective in public campaigns. What we find is that all good narratives follow a certain argumentation structure based around logos-ethos-pathos, and all bad ones deviate from that structure in one or more important ways. Ideally, you would want to fix that narrative by replacing your HBS essay, but since that is not possible, you need to communicate a new and improved narrative through other means - hence the waitlist letters and larger influence campaign.

I can't speak for the advice given by other consultants except to say that this appears to be the difference between my firm's experience and theirs.

bschool51 wrote:
I've also been in touch with a few current HBS students who have said that among their cohort, the people who were ultimately admitted from the WL were those who didn't submit updates, and those who did submit updates were not admitted (among the people they knew).

Having gone to HBS, almost everyone I know who was on the waitlist at one point or another sent something into the admissions committee. At the very least confirming your interest going into Round 2 would be a normal and expected thing to do, just as it would be if you were instead applying for a job or scholarship.

bschool51 wrote:
Given all of that, it just seems incredibly risky to do anything but wait (for HBS - other schools are obviously a different story).

While I was a student I volunteered with the HBS admissions committee and will tell you that they are not as cold and scary as you make them out to be. They are actually very friendly and warm. They believe that their jobs give them a platform to change the world by admitting students who are out to solve important challenges, and then equipping them with all the resources of HBS. What precisely is the risk here? Let's just play this out - If you send a short polite email to the adcom thanking them for their consideration, do you think it would be reasonable for as professional an operation as HBS Admissions to declare, "How dare this person contact me? Reject her immediately!". Of course not. However, if you send in (1) way too many updates, (2) creepy updates, (3) desperate updates, or (4) updates that just reinforce a bad narrative, those would -- obviously -- likely hurt you. Waitlist letters aren't the solution. Good waitlist letter are.

bschool51 wrote:
I suspect that there's someone who looks a lot like me from a more prestigious firm, with better scores, or with better work experience / awards who was admitted, and so they're waiting until they see their round 2 pool before deciding whether to admit me.

Were that the case they would have been much more likely to place you under "further consideration": A sort of pre-interview waitlist in Round 1 that lets them wait and see what the Round 2 applicant pool looks like before interviewing you. HBS does not waste their time interviewing candidates they would not admit.

Hope this helps!
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HBS Waitlist: (2019 Intake) Class of 2021  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Dec 2018, 11:08
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Re: HBS Waitlist: (2019 Intake) Class of 2021  [#permalink]

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New post 04 Jan 2019, 12:11
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NateFromHBS wrote:
​Hi bschool51, Great questions and no offense taken - thanks for your thoughtful response!

The reason why we at Ivy Admissions Group suggest sending in waitlist letters is because that is what has worked for our clients in the past. We actually got our start by only offering waitlist services, the techniques for which we developed after getting ourselves into HBS, Wharton and GSB off the waitlist, and then helping our friends (and then friends of friends) to do the same. Of the more than a dozen clients that choose to work with us each year on mounting waitlist campaigns, we succeed in getting about two-thirds into their specific school of choice.

Having personally worked with dozens of waitlist clients in the past, by far the most common problem with a candidate's application is with their narrative story. There has been a proliferation of research into which messages are most effective in public campaigns. What we find is that all good narratives follow a certain argumentation structure based around logos-ethos-pathos, and all bad ones deviate from that structure in one or more important ways. Ideally, you would want to fix that narrative by replacing your HBS essay, but since that is not possible, you need to communicate a new and improved narrative through other means - hence the waitlist letters and larger influence campaign.

I can't speak for the advice given by other consultants except to say that this appears to be the difference between my firm's experience and theirs.

bschool51 wrote:
I've also been in touch with a few current HBS students who have said that among their cohort, the people who were ultimately admitted from the WL were those who didn't submit updates, and those who did submit updates were not admitted (among the people they knew).

Having gone to HBS, almost everyone I know who was on the waitlist at one point or another sent something into the admissions committee. At the very least confirming your interest going into Round 2 would be a normal and expected thing to do, just as it would be if you were instead applying for a job or scholarship.

bschool51 wrote:
Given all of that, it just seems incredibly risky to do anything but wait (for HBS - other schools are obviously a different story).

While I was a student I volunteered with the HBS admissions committee and will tell you that they are not as cold and scary as you make them out to be. They are actually very friendly and warm. They believe that their jobs give them a platform to change the world by admitting students who are out to solve important challenges, and then equipping them with all the resources of HBS. What precisely is the risk here? Let's just play this out - If you send a short polite email to the adcom thanking them for their consideration, do you think it would be reasonable for as professional an operation as HBS Admissions to declare, "How dare this person contact me? Reject her immediately!". Of course not. However, if you send in (1) way too many updates, (2) creepy updates, (3) desperate updates, or (4) updates that just reinforce a bad narrative, those would -- obviously -- likely hurt you. Waitlist letters aren't the solution. Good waitlist letter are.

bschool51 wrote:
I suspect that there's someone who looks a lot like me from a more prestigious firm, with better scores, or with better work experience / awards who was admitted, and so they're waiting until they see their round 2 pool before deciding whether to admit me.

Were that the case they would have been much more likely to place you under "further consideration": A sort of pre-interview waitlist in Round 1 that lets them wait and see what the Round 2 applicant pool looks like before interviewing you. HBS does not waste their time interviewing candidates they would not admit.

Hope this helps!


Nate - what else are the reasons for someone to be waitlisted post interview then? I thought that they were waiting to see candidates in R2 before deciding to admit or not.

Would you say someone who was waitlisted post interview has a higher chance than someone pre interview?
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Re: HBS Waitlist: (2019 Intake) Class of 2021  [#permalink]

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New post 04 Jan 2019, 12:56
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Hi everyone I wanted to post this for future waitlist candidates in future rounds/application seasons/posterity. We (Round 1 applicants, waitlisted post-interview) received an email from Eileen at 3PM on January 4th, stating that they just received round 2 applications. They'll be focusing on evaluating round 2 in January and said there would be no movement during this month. She ended the email saying she would email at the beginning of the month February (before round 2 interview invites) to tell us exactly when to expect movement.
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Re: HBS Waitlist: (2019 Intake) Class of 2021 &nbs [#permalink] 04 Jan 2019, 12:56

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