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In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr

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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 24 Aug 2016, 10:48
mikemcgarry wrote:
tagmag wrote:
hi Mike

can option A be removed on the basis that double comparatives indicate a causality, and in option A the causality is wrong. i.e. being closer to city does not cause increase in air acidity

thanks

Dear tagmag,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, I am not sure where you heard that rule, the rule that "double comparatives indicate a causal relationship." That is 100% false. It has absolute no basis in reality. As a general rule, double comparatives are simply redundant and wrong.

Does all this make sense?

Mike :-)

By double comparative I mean the structure like....The bigger it is, the better it is

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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 24 Aug 2016, 11:13
tagmag wrote:
mikemcgarry wrote:
tagmag wrote:
hi Mike

can option A be removed on the basis that double comparatives indicate a causality, and in option A the causality is wrong. i.e. being closer to city does not cause increase in air acidity

thanks

Dear tagmag,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, I am not sure where you heard that rule, the rule that "double comparatives indicate a causal relationship." That is 100% false. It has absolute no basis in reality. As a general rule, double comparatives are simply redundant and wrong.

Does all this make sense?

Mike :-)

By double comparative I mean the structure like....The bigger it is, the better it is

Dear tagmag,

Thank you for clarifying. A structure such as "The bigger it is, the better it is" doesn't really have a name, and calling it a "double comparative" is likely to cause confusion. Choice (A) has a grammatical mistake that I would call a "double comparative":
....the more the city air would become increasingly acidic.
That is truly redundant and wrong, because two different comparatives are used for the same comparison. That's what I would call a "double comparative."

What you are discussing is a correct grammatical structure without an adequate name, but I would say that this structure doesn't necessarily imply causality. It merely indicates correlation. For example,

The more suntan lotion people buy, the more ice cream they buy.

That is a true statement. In this sentence, one does not cause the other: instead, both are caused by hot sunny weather.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 24 Aug 2016, 11:40
mikemcgarry wrote:
tagmag wrote:
hi Mike

can option A be removed on the basis that double comparatives indicate a causality, and in option A the causality is wrong. i.e. being closer to city does not cause increase in air acidity

thanks

Dear tagmag,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, I am not sure where you heard that rule, the rule that "double comparatives indicate a causal relationship." That is 100% false. It has absolute no basis in reality. As a general rule, double comparatives are simply redundant and wrong.

Does all this make sense?

Mike :-)

hi Mike
thanks for the input but this is what I read in Magoosh Gmat_Idiom book( nice book, cleared many of my doubts)


Excerpt from Magoosh Idiom pdf book

Suppose A and B are two items or qualities or quantities, and we want to express how one of
them changes as a result of the other one changing
; that is, we want to express the interrelated
nature of their changes. This is the formal structure of the idiom:
“the” (comparative adjective or adverb) (independent clause about A), “the” (comparative
adjective or adverb) (independent clause about B)

1) According to Kepler’s Second Law of Planetary Motion, as a planet moves through its
elliptical orbit, it changes its orbital speed as its distance from the Sun changes: in particular,
the closer the planet is to the Sun, then it is moving its orbit that much faster.
A. the closer the planet is to the Sun, then it is moving in its orbit that much faster
B. the closer the planet is to the Sun, the faster it moves in its orbit
C. when the planet is closer to the Sun, the faster it moves in its orbit
D. when the planet is closer to the Sun, moving fasting in its orbit as well
E. by being closer to the Sun, also moving fasting in its orbit
2) Kepler’s Third Law says expresses the relationship between the semi-major axis of a
planet’s orbit and its orbital period: the further a planet’s orbit is from the Sun, the longer the
planet’s period of revolution around the Sun.
A. the further a planet’s orbit is from the Sun, the longer the planet’s period of revolution
around the Sun
B. when a planet’s orbit is further from the Sun, the longer the planet’s period of revolution
around the Sun
C. the further a planet’s orbit is from the Sun, thereby the planet’s period of revolution around
the Sun is that much longer
D. when a planet’s orbit is further from the Sun, the planet’s period of revolution around the
Sun being that much longer
E. by having an orbit further from the Sun, a planet also having a period of revolution around
the Sun being that much longer

The words “the” beginning each part are crucial, as is the comma separating the two parts.
This idiom stands alone as an independent clause, and therefore can be a complete sentence
by itself, or can play a role in a larger sentence. Here are some examples.
3) The higher they fly, the harder they fall.
4) The straighter an arrow, the truer it flies.
5) The hotter the surface temperature of a star, the more light per square meter it radiates.
6) “The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your
????????
If you understand the layout of this idiom, see whether that changes your answers to the
questions above. You may want to give them a second look before reading the solutions
below. May the Force be with you.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Only one of the answers in each follows this particular idiom perfectly, and the other four
answer choices in each are both idiomatically and grammatically incorrect. The correct
choices are (B) in the first and(A) in the second.

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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 25 Aug 2016, 12:35
mikemcgarry wrote:
guerrero25 wrote:
In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistry of rain in a large area around the city of Manchester, England, noting that the closer one came to town, the more the city air would become increasingly acidic.

A)that the closer one came to town, the more the city air would become increasingly acidic
B)that the city air became increasingly acidic the closer one came to town
C)that coming closer to town, the city air became increasingly acidic
D)that the more the city air became increasingly acidic, the closer one was to town
E)the city air becoming increasingly acidic as one would come closer to town

OA to follow

Dear guerrero25,
I'm happy to help with this. :-)

This one is using a idiom that the GMAT loves. See this blog:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-gramm ... mparisons/
The form of this idiom is
"the" [comparative][clause #1], "the" [comparative][clause #2]
This idiom implies causality --- it implies that the changing comparative in the first clause is responsible for the changing comparative in the second clause.

We need the word "that" following "noting", so (E) is wrong.

Choices (B) & (C) don't have the form, so they are wrong.

Choice (D) follows the idiom correctly, but the order is strange --- it almost seems to imply that making the air more acidic would cause us to move closer to Manchester. That's not the intended meaning, and it doesn't really make sense.

Choice (A) follows the idiom correctly, and it also has the correct order of causality. As we move closer to Manchester, a direct result of that action would be to encounter air that is more acidic. Choice (A) is the best answer.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)

hi mike
please help...
I posted an excerpt from the magoosh idiom ebook related to my doubt that structure such as the more, the merrier is used to show causal relation.
can i rely on this.. please clear my doubt
thanks

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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 25 Aug 2016, 13:41
tagmag wrote:
hi mike
please help...
I posted an excerpt from the magoosh idiom ebook related to my doubt that structure such as the more, the merrier is used to show causal relation.
can i rely on this.. please clear my doubt
thanks

Dear tagmag,
Perhaps the wording in that ebook is open to misinterpretation a little on this point, at least from a certain perspective. This grammatical structure is often used to denote a causal connection--that is probably its most frequent use--but strictly logically speaking, it implies only correlation, not causality. You want to deduce something rigorously and absolutely logical from a grammatical structure that is, at best, only suggestive. Language is NOT mathematics, but you seem to want the same B/W certainty about a grammatical-logical point. This entire line of thinking will produce several misunderstandings of grammar & logic on the GMAT SC.

It is 100% impossible to arrive at GMAT SC mastery by learning some theoretical complete list of rules. That approach is ultimately doomed to failure. Yes, there are many grammar rules and a few logic or rhetorical rules to know, but to a great extent, it's about getting a sense of how the language is used in context, in formal writing used in the modern business world. There is no substitute for reading. See:
How to Improve Your GMAT Verbal Score

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 25 Aug 2016, 13:45
mikemcgarry wrote:
tagmag wrote:
hi mike
please help...
I posted an excerpt from the magoosh idiom ebook related to my doubt that structure such as the more, the merrier is used to show causal relation.
can i rely on this.. please clear my doubt
thanks

Dear tagmag,
Perhaps the wording in that ebook is open to misinterpretation a little on this point, at least from a certain perspective. This grammatical structure is often used to denote a causal connection--that is probably its most frequent use--but strictly logically speaking, it implies only correlation, not causality. You want to deduce something rigorously and absolutely logical from a grammatical structure that is, at best, only suggestive. Language is NOT mathematics, but you seem to want the same B/W certainty about a grammatical-logical point. This entire line of thinking will produce several misunderstandings of grammar & logic on the GMAT SC.

It is 100% impossible to arrive at GMAT SC mastery by learning some theoretical complete list of rules. That approach is ultimately doomed to failure. Yes, there are many grammar rules and a few logic or rhetorical rules to know, but to a great extent, it's about getting a sense of how the language is used in context, in formal writing used in the modern business world. There is no substitute for reading. See:
How to Improve Your GMAT Verbal Score

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)

Thanks I will surely keep that in mind.
Thank you

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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 17 May 2017, 15:02
mikemcgarry wrote:
windofchange wrote:
OA is (B) :(
I picked A because of the similar reasoning as Mike's. I have no clue why the correct answer is B

Dear windofchange,
Apparently, the GMAT tolerates more variation in this idiomatic structure than they did previously. Since this is the case, choice (B) is the best answer, as skyhawk eloquently explained. Let me know if you have any further questions.
Mike :-)


Dear mikemcgarry,

I was really confused with this question. The correct choice B looks very weird for me. Since I could find some fatal mistakes in all of the other four choices, I have to accept B. But I still have some concerns with B.

As in A, C,D, the correlation is described as " the closer one came to town (event A), the more the city air became acidic (event B)". Does this structure hint any logical direction between the event A and B? Does choice B, the city air became increasingly acidic (event B) the closer one came to town (event A), convey a different logical meaning?

Thx for your time in advance,
Victoria

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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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guerrero25 wrote:
In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistry of rain in a large area around the city of Manchester, England, noting that the closer one came to town, the more the city air would become increasingly acidic.

A)that the closer one came to town, the more the city air would become increasingly acidic
B)that the city air became increasingly acidic the closer one came to town
C)that coming closer to town, the city air became increasingly acidic
D)that the more the city air became increasingly acidic, the closer one was to town
E)the city air becoming increasingly acidic as one would come closer to town

OA to follow


we all are farmiliar with the idiom in which two adjectives of comparision appear at the begining of the clauses
the better, the more
the better..., the faster...

by offering OA as choice B, gmat want to declare that, we do not need the two adjective are at the beginning and the clause showing first action can appear after the clause showing the result action.

that is what I think. we have to learn a new pattern of sentence
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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bubblehead0922 wrote:
Dear mikemcgarry,

I was really confused with this question. The correct choice B looks very weird for me. Since I could find some fatal mistakes in all of the other four choices, I have to accept B. But I still have some concerns with B.

As in A, C,D, the correlation is described as " the closer one came to town (event A), the more the city air became acidic (event B)". Does this structure hint any logical direction between the event A and B? Does choice B, the city air became increasingly acidic (event B) the closer one came to town (event A), convey a different logical meaning?

Thx for your time in advance,
Victoria

bubblehead0922
Dear Victoria

I'm happy to respond. :-)

The order in which we state things doesn't matter. It is true that, in the sequence of time, cause precedes effect, but that does not impose a grammatical requirement that cause be stated before effect. It is still obvious what is cause and what is effect.
In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistry of rain in a large area around the city of Manchester, England, noting that the city air became increasingly acidic the closer one came to town.
This is a somewhat sophisticated version that departs from the most simplistic and obvious wording. One of the distinguishing marks of sophisticated writing is to say the ordinary in way that is a shade different from the ordinary way of saying it. There's a good deal of sophisticated writing in the text of official SC questions.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 19 May 2017, 02:14
In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistry of rain in a large area around the city of Manchester, England, noting that the closer one came to town, the more the city air would become increasingly acidic.

A) that the closer one came to town, the more the city air would become increasingly acidic

B) that the city air became increasingly acidic the closer one came to town
--> correct.

C) that coming closer to town, the city air became increasingly acidic
--> "the city" wrongly modifies "coming".

D) that the more the city air became increasingly acidic, the closer one was to town

E) the city air becoming increasingly acidic as one would come closer to town
--> lack of that.
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jun 2017, 04:39
mikemcgarry wrote:
anujkhatiwada wrote:
Mike doesn't choice B have the "the..the" idiom where i changed the font color, or am i misinterpreting your explanation?

Dear anujkhatiwada,
The way the idiom is constructed, in each branch, the comparative word must immediately follow the word "the" ---- "the closer", "the more", etc. The word "city" is not a comparative word.

The more I think about this, the more I think this is not a question up to GMAT standards. Above I chose (A), but now I think that "more ... increasingly acidic" is redundant, and thus, no answer choice correctly phrases this. I think the correct phrasing would be
that the closer one came to town, the more acidic the city air became
Notice the two comparative structures that immediately follow the word "the" in each branch. That's the ideal, and no choice really comes acceptably close to that.

Mike :-)



Hi mikemcgarry,

I rejected option B because I thought that a comma is must (as you also used a comma in your explanation)...
Can such structures be rendered correct without the use of comma ...

For e.g. :
the more I practice SC, the better I feel about it...

If you see, we by default use a comma all such structures ....

Can please throw some light on this ...
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 12 Jun 2017, 14:46
mihir0710 wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry[/url],

I rejected option B because I thought that a comma is must (as you also used a comma in your explanation)...
Can such structures be rendered correct without the use of comma ...

For e.g. :
the more I practice SC, the better I feel about it...

If you see, we by default use a comma all such structures ....

Can please throw some light on this ...

Dear mihir0710,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

If I may give you feedback on what you have written:
" . . . I thought that a comma is must . . . "
That''s very awkward and hard for a native speaker to understand. By contrast, consider this:
" . . . I thought that a comma is a must . . . "
That sounds natural and makes perfect sense. That one indefinite article makes all the difference.

In this structure, there is some natural variation. The most rigid form of the idiom is
the [comparative][clause #1], the [comparative][clause #2]
That strict version indeed requires a comma.

The OA in this question employed a looser form of the idiom
. . . the city air became increasingly acidic the closer one came to town . . .
Here, the comparative in the first close is not isolated at the beginning; instead, it is integrated into the clause. This variant does not require a comma, and in fact, a comma would be awkward and wrong.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 13 Jun 2017, 05:54
mikemcgarry wrote:
mihir0710 wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry[/url],

I rejected option B because I thought that a comma is must (as you also used a comma in your explanation)...
Can such structures be rendered correct without the use of comma ...

For e.g. :
the more I practice SC, the better I feel about it...

If you see, we by default use a comma all such structures ....

Can please throw some light on this ...

Dear mihir0710,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

If I may give you feedback on what you have written:
" . . . I thought that a comma is must . . . "
That''s very awkward and hard for a native speaker to understand. By contrast, consider this:
" . . . I thought that a comma is a must . . . "
That sounds natural and makes perfect sense. That one indefinite article makes all the difference.

In this structure, there is some natural variation. The most rigid form of the idiom is
the [comparative][clause #1], the [comparative][clause #2]
That strict version indeed requires a comma.

The OA in this question employed a looser form of the idiom
. . . the city air became increasingly acidic the closer one came to town . . .
Here, the comparative in the first close is not isolated at the beginning; instead, it is integrated into the clause. This variant does not require a comma, and in fact, a comma would be awkward and wrong.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)


Yep it does make a perfect sense ...

Thank you for the response...

Btw thank you for the additional feedback on the "missing article" ...infact my "grammarly" extension on chrome keeps on correcting my "article" mistakes and I still make that same mistake...I need to take care of it before it catches me on wrong foot in the GMAT...
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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The point to note is that 'more and increasingly acidic' are redundant. Hence, remove A and D. Remove C for saying that the city air came closer to town. Drop E for missing the connector 'that' in a reported speech. B remains.
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 16 Jun 2017, 03:35
In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistry of rain in a large area around the city of Manchester, England, noting that the closer one came to town, the more the city air would become increasingly acidic.

A) that the closer one came to town, the more the city air would become increasingly acidic
B) that the city air became increasingly acidic the closer one came to town
C) that coming closer to town, the city air became increasingly acidic
D) that the more the city air became increasingly acidic, the closer one was to town
E) the city air becoming increasingly acidic as one would come closer to town


straight B
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 26 Oct 2017, 22:28
Could anyone explain me about sentence structure in choice B?
I chose choice A, but now I understand why it's wrong. However, since English is not my first language, I'm still confused with choice B.

choice B: that the city air became increasingly acidic the closer one came to town.

Is 'the closer one came to town' an adverb for the previous sentence?
I feel more comfortable with 'that the city air became increasingly acidic 'when' the closer one came to town' Is it still correct?

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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 18 Nov 2017, 04:24
guerrero25 wrote:
In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistry of rain in a large area around the city of Manchester, England, noting that the closer one came to town, the more the city air would become increasingly acidic.

A) that the closer one came to town, the more the city air would become increasingly acidic
B) that the city air became increasingly acidic the closer one came to town
C) that coming closer to town, the city air became increasingly acidic
D) that the more the city air became increasingly acidic, the closer one was to town
E) the city air becoming increasingly acidic as one would come closer to town

OA to follow


Dear all, I have a different reason why we must eliminate [A] in the first place.
The meaning in [A] is illogical : how can the quality of city air is affected by the distance of someone?

That's why I chose between B and D here.
Now, choice B seems bad because the construction would be much better if we put a comma before "the closer one".
I chose D, while I admit that "more" and "increasingly" are redundant.

Dear GMATNinja, sayantanc2k, any idea about construction in B?

Thanks!
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 21 Nov 2017, 17:14
septwibowo wrote:

Dear all, I have a different reason why we must eliminate [A] in the first place.
The meaning in [A] is illogical : how can the quality of city air is affected by the distance of someone?

That's why I chose between B and D here.
Now, choice B seems bad because the construction would be much better if we put a comma before "the closer one".
I chose D, while I admit that "more" and "increasingly" are redundant.

Dear GMATNinja, sayantanc2k, any idea about construction in B?

Thanks!

Check out @mikemcgarry's excellent post above for an explanation of the idiom used in this question: https://gmatclub.com/forum/in-1852-robe ... l#p1868477. If that doesn't do the trick, feel free to follow up, and I'll try take a shot at it.

The bigger picture, though, is that the GMAT really doesn't test the nuances of comma usage, but it does test redundancy. In general, if you think than an answer choice is wrong solely because of a comma... well, it probably isn't wrong JUST because of that comma. Redundancy is a much more severe crime, especially when it's as blatant as in (D).
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr [#permalink]

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New post 23 Nov 2017, 12:56
In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistry of rain in a large area around the city of Manchester, England, noting that the closer one came to town, the more the city air would become increasingly acidic.

(A) that the closer one came to town, the more the city air would become increasingly acidic

(B) that the city air became increasingly acidic the closer one came to town

between A and B, A also has redundancy. More and increasingly mean the same thing.
Hence, B is the answer.
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Re: In 1852 Robert Angus Smith published a detailed report of the chemistr   [#permalink] 23 Nov 2017, 12:56

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