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Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support

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Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support the expansion of preventive medical care, but arguments claiming that it will lead to greater societal economic gains are misguided. Some of the greatest societal expenses arise from frequent urgent-care needs for people who have attained a long life due to preventive care.

Sunil: Your argument fails because you neglect economic gains outside the health care system: society suffers an economic loss when any of its productive members suffer from preventable illness.

Sunil's response to Jay makes which of the following assumptions?

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care

B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system.

C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses.

D. The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.

E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived.

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Originally posted by Skywalker18 on 31 May 2017, 22:32.
Last edited by hazelnut on 25 Aug 2017, 23:22, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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New post 31 May 2017, 22:43
Skywalker18 wrote:
Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support the expansion of preventive medical care, but arguments claiming that it will lead to greater
societal economic gains are misguided. Some of the greatest societal expenses arise from frequent urgent-care needs for people who have attained a long life due to preventive care.
Sunil: Your argument fails because you neglect economic gains outside the health care system: society suffers an economic loss when any of its
productive members suffer from preventable illness.

Sunil's response to Jay makes which of the following assumptions?
A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care
B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system.
C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses.
D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.
E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived.


i was between c and D .
D is the assumption made by sunil.
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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Skywalker18 wrote:
Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support the expansion of preventive medical care, but arguments claiming that it will lead to greater societal economic gains are misguided. Some of the greatest societal expenses arise from frequent urgent-care needs for people who have attained a long life due to preventive care.

Sunil: Your argument fails because you neglect economic gains outside the health care system: society suffers an economic loss when any of its productive members suffer from preventable illness.

Sunil's response to Jay makes which of the following assumptions?

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care
B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system.
C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses.
D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.
E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived.


Jay : People who receive the preventive care are arising the societal expenses.

Sunil : Society suffers an economic loss when any of its productive members suffer from preventable illness.

We can understand from this statement that as per Sunil's comment when people are healthy they'll earn more + spend more and this will in turn helps the society. This is the assumption.

Let's see the option that has is related with our paraphrase i.e link between people and economy.

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care...This option doesn't deal with people and economy.
B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system...This option doesn't deal with people and economy.
C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses...This option doesn't deal with people and economy.
D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.
E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived...This option doesn't deal with people and economy.

Here only D matches our pre-thiking.
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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New post 01 Jun 2017, 03:03
Skywalker18 wrote:
Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support the expansion of preventive medical care, but arguments claiming that it will lead to greater societal economic gains are misguided. Some of the greatest societal expenses arise from frequent urgent-care needs for people who have attained a long life due to preventive care.

Sunil: Your argument fails because you neglect economic gains outside the health care system: society suffers an economic loss when any of its productive members suffer from preventable illness.

Sunil's response to Jay makes which of the following assumptions?

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care
B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system.
C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses.
D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.
E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived.


It Should be D.
For productive members if their economic contributions are less than what it costs for their preventive care then Sunils argument will fall apart.
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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I will give it a try..

Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support the expansion of preventive medical care, but arguments claiming that it will lead to greater societal economic gains are misguided. Some of the greatest societal expenses arise from frequent urgent-care needs for people who have attained a long life due to preventive care.

Jay believes that expansion of preventive medical care is fine but it will not really lead to societal economic gains. Why so?
Because frequent urgent care needs will lead to greater societal expenses. So how is the society gaining?

Sunil: Your argument fails because you neglect economic gains outside the health care system: society suffers an economic loss when any of its productive members suffer from preventable illness.

Sunil thinks/believes completely opposite of what Jay believes. According to Sunil, a loss is not about money/gains but it is about the members who are productive. They fall ill and won't be contributing anything to the society. Instead will be using money for medical care.

Sunil's response to Jay makes which of the following assumptions?

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care
INCORRECT. I do not see how it kind of bridges the gap between the two statements.

B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system.
We know that already because it was mentioned by Sunil. Also it does not really answers the question. INCORRECT

C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses.
But what about the economic gains and productive members of society. INCORRECT.

D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.
Yes!! It makes the argument more clear.

E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived.
INCORRECT.
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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D
By negation technique.
On negating D the conclusion falls apart.
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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New post 16 Aug 2017, 10:15
Hello expert,

Could you please help me in solving this question.
How did you solve this question,whats ur approach?
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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New post 16 Aug 2017, 13:31
Hello Skywalker18, Could you please post the OE for the question. I am unable to comprehend as to why option "D" is correct.

Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support the expansion of preventive medical care, but arguments claiming that it will lead to greater societal economic gains are misguided. Some of the greatest societal expenses arise from frequent urgent-care needs for people who have attained a long life due to preventive care.

Sunil: Your argument fails because you neglect economic gains outside the health care system: society suffers an economic loss when any of its productive members suffer from preventable illness.

Sunil's response to Jay makes which of the following assumptions?

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care
B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system.
C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses.
D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.
E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived.
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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gmatexam439 wrote:
Hello, Could you please post the OE for the question. I am unable to comprehend as to why option "D" is correct.

Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support the expansion of preventive medical care, but arguments claiming that it will lead to greater societal economic gains are misguided. Some of the greatest societal expenses arise from frequent urgent-care needs for people who have attained a long life due to preventive care.

Sunil: Your argument fails because you neglect economic gains outside the health care system: society suffers an economic loss when any of its productive members suffer from preventable illness.

Sunil's response to Jay makes which of the following assumptions?

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care
B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system.
C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses.
D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.
E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived.



Let me try..

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care - No, even if people who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care. it does not establish anything what Sunil talks about related to economic gains
B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system. - No, What Jay says is not what the question asks.
C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses. - No, this is the trap here.. because it tries to link what suil says to what Jay said.. but to prove this we need to make a few more assumptions..
D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care. - Correct.. try the negation test here.. if the economic contributions of those receiving care are less than the economic losses by providing that care.. Sunils argument falls apart.
E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived - No, again.. what Jay says is not what is asked in the question

Hope it helps.. What was your answer choice?
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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gmatexam439 wrote:
Hello Skywalker18, Could you please post the OE for the question. I am unable to comprehend as to why option "D" is correct.



Hi gmatexam439 ,

Here I go:

Jay said " some arguments are misguided". On what basis did he say so " No gains to local people happening."

Sunil said : Your conclusion is wrong. Why? You didn't consider gains to outside people.

He is saying wrong. Then he must have something in his mind.

Now, consider it like this:

If gains are more, What Sunil said is valid.

If losses are more, what Sunil said is invalid.

So, when he was saying something, he must be assuming that gains are more. Hence, D is correct.

Does that make sense?
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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New post 17 Aug 2017, 12:55
abhimahna wrote:
gmatexam439 wrote:
Hello Skywalker18, Could you please post the OE for the question. I am unable to comprehend as to why option "D" is correct.



Hi gmatexam439 ,

Here I go:

Jay said " some arguments are misguided". On what basis did he say so " No gains to local people happening."

Sunil said : Your conclusion is wrong. Why? You didn't consider gains to outside people.

He is saying wrong. Then he must have something in his mind.

Now, consider it like this:

If gains are more, What Sunil said is valid.

If losses are more, what Sunil said is invalid.

So, when he was saying something, he must be assuming that gains are more. Hence, D is correct.

Does that make sense?


Yes bruh, that makes a lot of sense. Actually I was stuck between, B and D. I mis-read or I don't know what happened but I forgot that "economic gains" is being taken on an economy level and not just at hospital level as given in the option. Its written clearly in the premise.

Yes option D should be correct. Thank you for replying quickly.

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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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New post 17 Aug 2017, 12:57
monarkmunshi wrote:
gmatexam439 wrote:
Hello, Could you please post the OE for the question. I am unable to comprehend as to why option "D" is correct.

Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support the expansion of preventive medical care, but arguments claiming that it will lead to greater societal economic gains are misguided. Some of the greatest societal expenses arise from frequent urgent-care needs for people who have attained a long life due to preventive care.

Sunil: Your argument fails because you neglect economic gains outside the health care system: society suffers an economic loss when any of its productive members suffer from preventable illness.

Sunil's response to Jay makes which of the following assumptions?

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care
B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system.
C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses.
D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.
E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived.



Let me try..

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care - No, even if people who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care. it does not establish anything what Sunil talks about related to economic gains
B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system. - No, What Jay says is not what the question asks.
C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses. - No, this is the trap here.. because it tries to link what suil says to what Jay said.. but to prove this we need to make a few more assumptions..
D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care. - Correct.. try the negation test here.. if the economic contributions of those receiving care are less than the economic losses by providing that care.. Sunils argument falls apart.
E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived - No, again.. what Jay says is not what is asked in the question

Hope it helps.. What was your answer choice?


Yup that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. BTW I chose B. I don't know what was going in my mind at that time.
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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New post 17 Aug 2017, 22:28
abhimahna wrote:
gmatexam439 wrote:
Hello Skywalker18, Could you please post the OE for the question. I am unable to comprehend as to why option "D" is correct.



Hi gmatexam439 ,

Here I go:

Jay said " some arguments are misguided". On what basis did he say so " No gains to local people happening."

Sunil said : Your conclusion is wrong. Why? You didn't consider gains to outside people.

He is saying wrong. Then he must have something in his mind.

Now, consider it like this:

If gains are more, What Sunil said is valid.

If losses are more, what Sunil said is invalid.

So, when he was saying something, he must be assuming that gains are more. Hence, D is correct.

Does that make sense?

Hi very nice explanation .
I am clear about the OA now

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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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New post 17 Aug 2017, 22:51
Skywalker18 wrote:
Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support the expansion of preventive medical care, but arguments claiming that it will lead to greater societal economic gains are misguided. Some of the greatest societal expenses arise from frequent urgent-care needs for people who have attained a long life due to preventive care.

Sunil: Your argument fails because you neglect economic gains outside the health care system: society suffers an economic loss when any of its productive members suffer from preventable illness.

Sunil's response to Jay makes which of the following assumptions?

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care
B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system.
C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses.
D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.
E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived.



Approach:
Jay says that there are many good reasons to support preventive medical care but there are a few cases as well that demonstrates its downsides. For example, people who live longer because of preventive care may cause urgent care expenses which wouldn't be required if they were not be alive.

Sunils counters the example by saying that there are productive people whose losses might affect economic gains outside the healthcare system such as technology and innovation, etc.

Hence, Jays confined its reach(or universe) to only health care system where as Sunil puts up the argument by expanding the reach (or universe) of Jay's argument. To put it simply, people who will be saved by preventive medical care may contribute to society in other economic ways. This is what option D says.
A. Argument is not about the likeliness of people receiving medical care but about the economic contributions that those people make who receive preventive medical care.
B. Sunil's assumption has nothing to do with what Jay intends from a particular phrase such as "economic gains"
C. Same as A; not about the likeliness of who will be more prone to suffering preventable illnesses
E. Sunil never questions the correctness of Jay; just pointing out that the spectrum that Jay has considered should be broadened.

Hope this helps!
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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VKat wrote:
Hello expert,

Could you please help me in solving this question.
How did you solve this question,whats ur approach?

I would start with Jay's conclusion, which is that "arguments claiming that [the expansion of preventive medical care] will lead to greater societal economic gains are misguided."

Why are those arguments misguided?... because "Some of the greatest societal expenses arise from frequent urgent-care needs for people who have attained a long life due to preventive care." In other words, preventive care helps many people live longer, but then those very people often have urgent-care needs. Those urgent care-needs are a great societal expense.

Sunil responds by pointing out the societal economic loss that results from a LACK of preventive medical care: "society suffers an economic loss when any of its productive members suffer from preventable illness." Sunil thus concludes that Jay's argument fails.

To summarize, Jay describes one way in which the expansion of preventive medical care will lead to a societal economic LOSS. Sunil responds by describing a societal economic GAIN (i.e. avoiding the economic loss that occurs when productive members of society suffer from preventable illnesses). So, which of the answer choices represents an assumption made in Sunil's response?

Quote:
A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care

Sunil's response has nothing to do with urgent care. Instead, Sunil only talks about avoiding the economic loss that occurs when productive members of society suffer preventable illnesses. Eliminate (A).

Quote:
B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system.

Sunil responds by discussing an economic gain outside the health care system. Thus, if "economic gains" referred only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system, Sunil's argument would not apply! Making the assumption stated in choice (B) would actually hurt Sunil's argument, so it is certainly not a required assumption. Eliminate (B).

Quote:
C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses.

Sunil's argument does not require that productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses. Productive members could be just as likely or even less likely to suffer preventable illnesses than others. Regardless, preventive care would help avoid the economic loss that occurs when those productive members of society DO suffer preventable illnesses. Choice (C) is not a required assumption.

Quote:
D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.

Remember, Sunil responds by describing a societal economic GAIN (i.e. avoiding the economic loss that occurs when productive members of society suffer from preventable illnesses). But what if that economic gain is SMALLER than the economic loss described by Jay? In other words, what if the frequent urgent-care expenses outweigh the economic gain described by Sunil? In that case, Jay's conclusion (that arguments claiming that the expansion of preventive medical care will lead to greater societal economic gains are misguided), would still be valid. Sunil is trying to argue that Jay's argument fails. Without making this assumption, Jay's argument will NOT fail, so choice (D) looks good.

Quote:
E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived.

Sunil only talks about avoiding the economic loss that occurs when productive members of society suffer preventable illnesses. This argument is valid regardless of whether patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived. Eliminate (E).

Choice (D) is the best answer.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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New post 09 Oct 2017, 23:43
Shiv2016 wrote:
I will give it a try..

Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support the expansion of preventive medical care, but arguments claiming that it will lead to greater societal economic gains are misguided. Some of the greatest societal expenses arise from frequent urgent-care needs for people who have attained a long life due to preventive care.

Jay believes that expansion of preventive medical care is fine but it will not really lead to societal economic gains. Why so?
Because frequent urgent care needs will lead to greater societal expenses. So how is the society gaining?

Sunil: Your argument fails because you neglect economic gains outside the health care system: society suffers an economic loss when any of its productive members suffer from preventable illness.

Sunil thinks/believes completely opposite of what Jay believes. According to Sunil, a loss is not about money/gains but it is about the members who are productive. They fall ill and won't be contributing anything to the society. Instead will be using money for medical care.

Sunil's response to Jay makes which of the following assumptions?

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care
INCORRECT. I do not see how it kind of bridges the gap between the two statements.

B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system.
We know that already because it was mentioned by Sunil. Also it does not really answers the question. INCORRECT

C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses.
But what about the economic gains and productive members of society. INCORRECT.

D.The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.
Yes!! It makes the argument more clear.

E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived.
INCORRECT.



thanks it becomes so east to understand after reading this explanation.
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support [#permalink]

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New post 10 Oct 2017, 10:59
Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support the expansion of preventive medical care, but arguments claiming that it will lead to greater societal economic gains are misguided. Some of the greatest societal expenses arise from frequent urgent-care needs for people who have attained a long life due to preventive care.

Sunil: Your argument fails because you neglect economic gains outside the health care system: society suffers an economic loss when any of its productive members suffer from preventable illness.

Sunil's response to Jay makes which of the following assumptions?

A. Those who receive preventive care are not more likely to need urgent care than are those who do not receive preventive care
-Sunil's argument is about economic gains. Incorrect.
B. Jay intends the phrase "economic gains" to refer only to gains accruing to institutions within the health care system.
-This is Jay's point of view. Out of scope.
C. Productive members of society are more likely than others to suffer preventable illnesses.
-This is nowhere stated or meant in the argument. Irrelevant.
D. The economic contributions of those who receive preventive medical care may outweigh the economic losses caused by preventive care.
-Correct. This states that the contribution>losses. Therefore, we can conclude that there are economic gains.
E. Jay is incorrect in stating that patients who receive preventive medical care are long-lived.
-This is Jay's point of view. Out of scope.
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Re: Jay: Of course there are many good reasons to support   [#permalink] 10 Oct 2017, 10:59
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