Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram : Sentence Correction (EA only)

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KarishmaB

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Re: Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

27 Sep 2020, 21:36

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shanks2020 wrote:

VeritasKarishma wrote:

dkverma wrote:

Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds.

A. offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

B. offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

C. offer more dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship than any yet discovered between dinosaurs and birds

D. have offered the most dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds that have yet been discovered

E. have offered more dramatic evidence than any that has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

This is the structure of option (A):
... New fossils offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered ...
This is correct.

B. offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

New fossils offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered ...
This is incorrect. It should be more dramatic that what had previously been discovered. "Yet been discovered" includes "new fossils" too but the comparison cannot be between one element and the whole group. It must be between one element and the rest of the group.

C. offer more dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship than any yet discovered between dinosaurs and birds

New fossils offer more dramatic evidence ... than any yet discovered ...
Again, "any yet discovered" includes "new fossils".

D. have offered the most dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds that have yet been discovered

Same problem as in (C). Also, "that have yet been discovered" seems to modify birds.

E. have offered more dramatic evidence than any that has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

New fossils have offered more dramatic evidence than any that has yet been discovered ...
"Any that has yet been discovered" includes "new fossils" too.

Answer (A)

Hi VeritasKarishma

In option C, doesnt yet require any noun after it?
It looks incomplete to say "than any yet"...It begs to ask Yet what? Or do we have to consider some implied stuffs?
What is a general rule to avoid such confusions?

I am not sure I understand your confusion. 'yet' means 'till now' and modifies the verb 'discovered'.
'yet discovered' means 'discovered till now' because it is the most dramatic evidence discovered till now. In future, even more dramatic could be discovered.

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Re: Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

27 Sep 2020, 21:47

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Will2020 wrote:

VeritasKarishma wrote:

Abhishekrao12 wrote:

Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds.

B. offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

Explanation : New fossils offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered ...
This is incorrect. It should be more dramatic that what had previously been discovered. "Yet been discovered" includes "new fossils" too but the
comparison cannot be between one element and the whole group. It must be between one element and the rest of the group.

Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer evidence more dramatic than what (fossils that) had yet been discovered (offer).
I have written the missing words which are implied within the brackets.
Is this the correct way of reading this sentence ? If it is not , can you please correct me ?

E. have offered more dramatic evidence than any that has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

Explanation : New fossils have offered more dramatic evidence than any that has yet been discovered ...
"Any that has yet been discovered" includes "new fossils" too.

1) Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs have offered more dramatic evidence than any (fossil) that has yet been discovered (have)
I have written the missing words which are implied within the brackets.
Is this the correct way of reading this sentence ? If it is not , can you please correct me ?

2) Don't you think that the word fossil (singular) should actually be fossils (plural). Because in ellipsis you can only replace the missing word by something that is
already present in the sentence ?
Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs have offered more dramatic evidence than any (fossils) that have yet been discovered.

VeritasKarishma :Kindly help me out with this!

Comparison is between new evidence and all previous evidence.

New fossils offer evidence.
This "evidence" is more dramatic than any previous "evidence".

Hi VeritasKarishma! About your post just before this one, regarding the split OFFER vs HAVE OFFERED (I couldn't post there - 3 quotes within each other rule). Considering from a meaning stand point, a switch from the construction "fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer" to the construction "fossils of feathered dinosaurs have offered" changes the meaning. "Offer" suggests that "the offering" will continue to be true. "Have offered" indicates only that it was once true. It makes it sound like "the fossils offered evidence", but maybe not anymore. If you take a look at Q 894 from OG 2020, (B) has the same issue: "Australian embryologists have found evidence that has suggested". What are you thoughts about this issue? DmitryFarber what is your take on split "offer" VS "have offered" regarding meaning? Tks!

As stated in the comment you are quoting, neither is wrong.

A offers evidence ... - means that if anyone tests A, they will see that it offers this evidence

A has offered evidence ... - means scientists tested A and found this evidence (if someone else does it, they will find it too). It implies an action was taken and this was found.

Present perfect shows recency - an action done recently with implications for now.
Whether you use simple present or present perfect, depends on what you want to say.
Neither is wrong in this case.

In the other OG question that you are talking about, 'have found' is not underlined. It says 'embryologists have found evidence' so it implies they tested and found this.

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Re: Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

01 Oct 2020, 18:10

Please suggest VeritasKarishma ma'm AndrewN sir

Can i reject B on basis of placement of more?

Quote:

Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds.

B. offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

Dramatic: adjective
What has yet been discovered: Noun

Offer evidence more <adjective> than <noun>- WRONG

If, offer more evidence than what xx
More <noun> than <noun> - NOT WRONG

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Re: Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

02 Oct 2020, 04:51

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imSKR wrote:

Please suggest VeritasKarishma ma'm AndrewN sir

Can i reject B on basis of placement of more?

Quote:

Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds.

B. offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

Dramatic: adjective
What has yet been discovered: Noun

Offer evidence more <adjective> than <noun>- WRONG

If, offer more evidence than what xx
More <noun> than <noun> - NOT WRONG

Hello, imSKR. The placement of the comparative more dramatic in reference to evidence is indeed incorrect. More dramatic evidence would be appropriate instead. I would not create a rule, though, about which parts of speech cannot be combined in a shell of a sentence. Consider the comparative sentence, Soap A gets a car cleaner than what comes off the factory production line. I would not immediately discard the sentence, even if I would look for other ways to express the vital meaning.

Thank you for thinking to ask me about this one. Good luck with your studies.

- Andrew

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Re: Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

29 Aug 2022, 12:31

egmat GMATNinja EMPOWERgmatVerbal KarishmaB RonTargetTestPrep

Can you please share your approach. I started as fossils offers / have offered dramatic evidence.
Now, this evidence was discovered in the past, however, the effect of it being dramatic continues in the present and hence I eliminated A, B and C.

This rationale was used for solving the below question -
Five hundred million different species of living creatures have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent of them vanishing.

(E) Of the five hundred million different species of living creatures that have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent have vanished.

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Re: Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

29 Aug 2022, 23:03

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Rickooreo wrote:

egmat GMATNinja EMPOWERgmatVerbal KarishmaB RonTargetTestPrep

Can you please share your approach. I started as fossils offers / have offered dramatic evidence.
Now, this evidence was discovered in the past, however, the effect of it being dramatic continues in the present and hence I eliminated A, B and C.

This rationale was used for solving the below question -
Five hundred million different species of living creatures have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent of them vanishing.

(E) Of the five hundred million different species of living creatures that have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent have vanished.

The tense to use in a particular sentence will depend on its context. Two different tenses could be acceptable too in a certain situation.
For example, 'the new fossils show that ...' is fine. It uses simple present. It is similar to 'the book talks about ...' etc.
Use of 'the new fossils have shown that ...' is also correct, if the author were talking in a context in which archaeologists unearthed the fossils and then examined them and found this. Then if the author were giving a report on what they found, she would say, 'fossils have offered this evidence...' and that would be correct.
Sometimes, from one sentence, it is hard to say what the context is so multiple interpretations are possible. Then we cannot eliminate options based on tenses.

The other question you mentioned "Five hundred million different species of living creatures have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent of them vanishing," needs present perfect only. We cannot use past tense here because the process of 'appearing' is a continuous one. Different species do keep appearing on Earth. Hence, we must say "the species that have appeared ..." The "appearing" is done for these species.

When we say "of the 500 mn different species that appeared on Earth," we are implying that the species appeared at some time in the past and now they don't. We know that is not correct.

Consider another example:
5 actors have auditioned for this role ... (means auditions are still on but 5 people are done with theirs... others could be auditioning too)
5 actors auditioned for this role ... (means auditions are over and 5 people auditioned)

Since new species appearing on Earth is an ongoing process, we cannot use simple past.

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Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

30 Aug 2022, 08:00

KarishmaB wrote:

Rickooreo wrote:

egmat GMATNinja EMPOWERgmatVerbal KarishmaB RonTargetTestPrep

Can you please share your approach. I started as fossils offers / have offered dramatic evidence.
Now, this evidence was discovered in the past, however, the effect of it being dramatic continues in the present and hence I eliminated A, B and C.

This rationale was used for solving the below question -
Five hundred million different species of living creatures have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent of them vanishing.

(E) Of the five hundred million different species of living creatures that have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent have vanished.

The tense to use in a particular sentence will depend on its context. Two different tenses could be acceptable too in a certain situation.
For example, 'the new fossils show that ...' is fine. It uses simple present. It is similar to 'the book talks about ...' etc.
Use of 'the new fossils have shown that ...' is also correct, if the author were talking in a context in which archaeologists unearthed the fossils and then examined them and found this. Then if the author were giving a report on what they found, she would say, 'fossils have offered this evidence...' and that would be correct.
Sometimes, from one sentence, it is hard to say what the context is so multiple interpretations are possible. Then we cannot eliminate options based on tenses.

The other question you mentioned "Five hundred million different species of living creatures have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent of them vanishing," needs present perfect only. We cannot use past tense here because the process of 'appearing' is a continuous one. Different species do keep appearing on Earth. Hence, we must say "the species that have appeared ..." The "appearing" is done for these species.

When we say "of the 500 mn different species that appeared on Earth," we are implying that the species appeared at some time in the past and now they don't. We know that is not correct.

Consider another example:
5 actors have auditioned for this role ... (means auditions are still on but 5 people are done with theirs... others could be auditioning too)
5 actors auditioned for this role ... (means auditions are over and 5 people auditioned)

Since new species appearing on Earth is an ongoing process, we cannot use simple past.

KarishmaB

Thankyou for the revert. One follow up question.

For the explanation of :
"We cannot use past tense here because the process of 'appearing' is a continuous one. Different species do keep appearing on Earth. Hence, we must say "the species that have appeared ..." The "appearing" is done for these species. "

In the question, we used the article - the before species - "of the 500 mn species" in the solution primarily because we are talking of those specific 500 mn species and not all.

Hence the apperance of those species would have stopped. Since this is a thing of the past usage of "have" isn't justified. However, what explanation I was given was that though the apperance have stopped, the effect of that apperance still continues and hence we use "have". Otherwise according to me the usage of have for "specific" 500 mn species which have already been born is not justified.

Now using this logic for the question - "Evidence of fossils was discovered in the past, however, the effect of it being dramatic evidence continues in the present and hence I eliminated A, B and C."

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Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

Updated on: 30 Sep 2023, 02:48

Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds.

Following the egmat three-step approach - understand the meaning, error analysis, and process of elimination - here is my understanding:

Meaning: Fossils of feathered dinosaurs have been discovered. This discovery is the most important one made w.r.t the evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

Sentence structure:

Unearthed in China, (Modifier modifying the noun "Fossils")
fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered (Clause 1; Subject - fossils; offer - verb)
of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds. (modifier modifying evidence)

Grammar:

The above sentence conveys a clear meaning and has no grammatical errors. So, (A) looks fine.

Choice analysis:

Quote:

B. offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

this chunk

Quote:

C. offer more dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship than any yet discovered between dinosaurs and birds

Apart from the "more than" which I less prefer, I am not happy with the placement of "between dinosaurs and birds". Since this modifier modifies "evolutionary relationship" it must be placed close to the noun.

Quote:

D. have offered the most dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds that have yet been discovered

The placement of "that have yet been discovered" seems to illogically modify "dinosaurs and birds". Since this noun modifier (Relative clause modifier beginning with that) is supposed to modify the noun "evidence", it must be placed as close as possible to it

Quote:

E. have offered more dramatic evidence than any that has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

Again, the modifier "of the close evolutionary relationship" must be placed as close as possible to the noun - evidence - it is supposed to modify.

I don't think that "more... than" is technically incorrect. But yeah, I would prefer the superlative form. Moreover, many have commented on the usage of "any" saying that "any" also includes the fossils unearthed in China. I am not really sure about this one, but it seems plausible

Originally posted by Hoozan on 29 Sep 2023, 22:15.
Last edited by Hoozan on 30 Sep 2023, 02:48, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

30 Sep 2023, 02:19

Very confusing one. The use of YET is quite complex for me (non-native speaker)

Posted from my mobile device

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Re: Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

15 Nov 2023, 14:49

KarishmaB wrote:

dkverma wrote:

Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds.

A. offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

B. offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

C. offer more dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship than any yet discovered between dinosaurs and birds

D. have offered the most dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds that have yet been discovered

E. have offered more dramatic evidence than any that has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

This is the structure of option (A):
... New fossils offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered ...
This is correct.

B. offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

New fossils offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered ...
This is incorrect. It should be more dramatic that what had previously been discovered. "Yet been discovered" includes "new fossils" too but the comparison cannot be between one element and the whole group. It must be between one element and the rest of the group.

C. offer more dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship than any yet discovered between dinosaurs and birds

New fossils offer more dramatic evidence ... than any yet discovered ...
Again, "any yet discovered" includes "new fossils".

D. have offered the most dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds that have yet been discovered

Same problem as in (C). Also, "that have yet been discovered" seems to modify birds.

E. have offered more dramatic evidence than any that has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

New fossils have offered more dramatic evidence than any that has yet been discovered ...
"Any that has yet been discovered" includes "new fossils" too.

Answer (A)

Thanks KarishmaB for great explanation.
To clarify, not quite sure we can't compare old fossils to new fossils here? Are't they similar elements?

Also you mentioned comparison cannot be between one element and the whole group. It must be between one element and the rest of the group.
Isn't both are comparing one to many here (the whole group/ the rest of the group ?

Not sure what did I miss?
Could you help clarify?
Thanks

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Re: Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

15 Nov 2023, 22:03

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Kimberly77 wrote:

KarishmaB wrote:

dkverma wrote:

Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds.

A. offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

B. offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

C. offer more dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship than any yet discovered between dinosaurs and birds

D. have offered the most dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds that have yet been discovered

E. have offered more dramatic evidence than any that has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

This is the structure of option (A):
... New fossils offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered ...
This is correct.

B. offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

New fossils offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered ...
This is incorrect. It should be more dramatic that what had previously been discovered. "Yet been discovered" includes "new fossils" too but the comparison cannot be between one element and the whole group. It must be between one element and the rest of the group.

C. offer more dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship than any yet discovered between dinosaurs and birds

New fossils offer more dramatic evidence ... than any yet discovered ...
Again, "any yet discovered" includes "new fossils".

D. have offered the most dramatic evidence of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds that have yet been discovered

Same problem as in (C). Also, "that have yet been discovered" seems to modify birds.

E. have offered more dramatic evidence than any that has yet been discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds

New fossils have offered more dramatic evidence than any that has yet been discovered ...
"Any that has yet been discovered" includes "new fossils" too.

Answer (A)

Thanks KarishmaB for great explanation.
To clarify, not quite sure we can't compare old fossils to new fossils here? Are't they similar elements?

Also you mentioned comparison cannot be between one element and the whole group. It must be between one element and the rest of the group.
Isn't both are comparing one to many here (the whole group/ the rest of the group ?

Not sure what did I miss?
Could you help clarify?
Thanks

Consider this:

Kimberly is taller than all my friends.
This makes sense if Kimberly is not my friend. I have a friend group of 3 - A, B and C say. Kimberly is taller than all three of them.

But what if my friend group has 4 people - Kimberly, A, B and C?
Can I say "Kimberly is taller than all my friends"? No. I must say, "Kimberly is taller than all my other friends."
or "Kimberly is tallest of all my friends."

Similarly, I cannot say, "Fossils A offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered" because fossils A are a part of the evidence that has yet been discovered. Fossils A have been discovered already.

Comparing a person with a group is not a problem as long as the person doesn't belong to the same group.

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Re: Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

16 Nov 2023, 02:14

Great explanation always KarishmaB, thanks a bunch for your quick reply too and get it now.

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Re: Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dram [#permalink]

16 Nov 2023, 02:14

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