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Abhishekrao12
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GMAT0010
the modifier ' yet discovered' is modifying the term evidence here.
A : Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds.
fossils of feathered dinosaurs - noun. Unearthed in China - modifying this noun.
offer - verb.
object - the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds where
the most dramatic is the adjective describing the evidence.
of the close relationship between dinosaurs and birds is the prepositional phrase modifying the word 'evidence'.
yet discovered is modifying the word ' evidence'.
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VeritasKarishma
Hi VeritasKarishma! About your post just before this one, regarding the split OFFER vs HAVE OFFERED (I couldn't post there - 3 quotes within each other rule). Considering from a meaning stand point, a switch from the construction "fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer" to the construction "fossils of feathered dinosaurs have offered" changes the meaning. "Offer" suggests that "the offering" will continue to be true. "Have offered" indicates only that it was once true. It makes it sound like "the fossils offered evidence", but maybe not anymore. If you take a look at Q 894 from OG 2020, (B) has the same issue: "Australian embryologists have found evidence that has suggested". What are you thoughts about this issue? DmitryFarber what is your take on split "offer" VS "have offered" regarding meaning? Tks!
Posts: 235
VeritasKarishma
Hi VeritasKarishma
In option C, doesnt yet require any noun after it?
It looks incomplete to say "than any yet"...It begs to ask Yet what? Or do we have to consider some implied stuffs?
What is a general rule to avoid such confusions?
shanks2020
I am not sure I understand your confusion. 'yet' means 'till now' and modifies the verb 'discovered'.
'yet discovered' means 'discovered till now' because it is the most dramatic evidence discovered till now. In future, even more dramatic could be discovered.
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Will2020
As stated in the comment you are quoting, neither is wrong.
A offers evidence ... - means that if anyone tests A, they will see that it offers this evidence
A has offered evidence ... - means scientists tested A and found this evidence (if someone else does it, they will find it too). It implies an action was taken and this was found.
Present perfect shows recency - an action done recently with implications for now.
Whether you use simple present or present perfect, depends on what you want to say.
Neither is wrong in this case.
In the other OG question that you are talking about, 'have found' is not underlined. It says 'embryologists have found evidence' so it implies they tested and found this.
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mSKR
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Please suggest VeritasKarishma ma'm AndrewN sir
Can i reject B on basis of placement of more?
Dramatic: adjective
What has yet been discovered: Noun
Offer evidence more <adjective> than <noun>- WRONG
If, offer more evidence than what xx
More <noun> than <noun> - NOT WRONG
Can i reject B on basis of placement of more?
Quote:
Dramatic: adjective
What has yet been discovered: Noun
Offer evidence more <adjective> than <noun>- WRONG
If, offer more evidence than what xx
More <noun> than <noun> - NOT WRONG
imSKR
Hello, imSKR. The placement of the comparative more dramatic in reference to evidence is indeed incorrect. More dramatic evidence would be appropriate instead. I would not create a rule, though, about which parts of speech cannot be combined in a shell of a sentence. Consider the comparative sentence, Soap A gets a car cleaner than what comes off the factory production line. I would not immediately discard the sentence, even if I would look for other ways to express the vital meaning.
Thank you for thinking to ask me about this one. Good luck with your studies.
- Andrew
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egmat GMATNinja EMPOWERgmatVerbal KarishmaB RonTargetTestPrep
Can you please share your approach. I started as fossils offers / have offered dramatic evidence.
Now, this evidence was discovered in the past, however, the effect of it being dramatic continues in the present and hence I eliminated A, B and C.
This rationale was used for solving the below question -
Five hundred million different species of living creatures have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent of them vanishing.
(E) Of the five hundred million different species of living creatures that have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent have vanished.
Can you please share your approach. I started as fossils offers / have offered dramatic evidence.
Now, this evidence was discovered in the past, however, the effect of it being dramatic continues in the present and hence I eliminated A, B and C.
This rationale was used for solving the below question -
Five hundred million different species of living creatures have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent of them vanishing.
(E) Of the five hundred million different species of living creatures that have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent have vanished.
Rickooreo
The tense to use in a particular sentence will depend on its context. Two different tenses could be acceptable too in a certain situation.
For example, 'the new fossils show that ...' is fine. It uses simple present. It is similar to 'the book talks about ...' etc.
Use of 'the new fossils have shown that ...' is also correct, if the author were talking in a context in which archaeologists unearthed the fossils and then examined them and found this. Then if the author were giving a report on what they found, she would say, 'fossils have offered this evidence...' and that would be correct.
Sometimes, from one sentence, it is hard to say what the context is so multiple interpretations are possible. Then we cannot eliminate options based on tenses.
The other question you mentioned "Five hundred million different species of living creatures have appeared on Earth, nearly 99 percent of them vanishing," needs present perfect only. We cannot use past tense here because the process of 'appearing' is a continuous one. Different species do keep appearing on Earth. Hence, we must say "the species that have appeared ..." The "appearing" is done for these species.
When we say "of the 500 mn different species that appeared on Earth," we are implying that the species appeared at some time in the past and now they don't. We know that is not correct.
Consider another example:
5 actors have auditioned for this role ... (means auditions are still on but 5 people are done with theirs... others could be auditioning too)
5 actors auditioned for this role ... (means auditions are over and 5 people auditioned)
Since new species appearing on Earth is an ongoing process, we cannot use simple past.
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KarishmaB
KarishmaB
Thankyou for the revert. One follow up question.
For the explanation of :
"We cannot use past tense here because the process of 'appearing' is a continuous one. Different species do keep appearing on Earth. Hence, we must say "the species that have appeared ..." The "appearing" is done for these species. "
In the question, we used the article - the before species - "of the 500 mn species" in the solution primarily because we are talking of those specific 500 mn species and not all.
Hence the apperance of those species would have stopped. Since this is a thing of the past usage of "have" isn't justified. However, what explanation I was given was that though the apperance have stopped, the effect of that apperance still continues and hence we use "have". Otherwise according to me the usage of have for "specific" 500 mn species which have already been born is not justified.
Now using this logic for the question - "Evidence of fossils was discovered in the past, however, the effect of it being dramatic evidence continues in the present and hence I eliminated A, B and C."
Unearthed in China, fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds.
Following the egmat three-step approach - understand the meaning, error analysis, and process of elimination - here is my understanding:
Meaning: Fossils of feathered dinosaurs have been discovered. This discovery is the most important one made w.r.t the evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds
Sentence structure:
Unearthed in China, (Modifier modifying the noun "Fossils")
fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered (Clause 1; Subject - fossils; offer - verb)
of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds. (modifier modifying evidence)
Grammar:
The above sentence conveys a clear meaning and has no grammatical errors. So, (A) looks fine.
Choice analysis:
Again, the modifier "of the close evolutionary relationship" must be placed as close as possible to the noun - evidence - it is supposed to modify.
I don't think that "more... than" is technically incorrect. But yeah, I would prefer the superlative form. Moreover, many have commented on the usage of "any" saying that "any" also includes the fossils unearthed in China. I am not really sure about this one, but it seems plausible
Following the egmat three-step approach - understand the meaning, error analysis, and process of elimination - here is my understanding:
Meaning: Fossils of feathered dinosaurs have been discovered. This discovery is the most important one made w.r.t the evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds
Sentence structure:
Unearthed in China, (Modifier modifying the noun "Fossils")
fossils of feathered dinosaurs offer the most dramatic evidence yet discovered (Clause 1; Subject - fossils; offer - verb)
of the close evolutionary relationship between dinosaurs and birds. (modifier modifying evidence)
Grammar:
- 1. SV - The plural subject has the plural verb offer - Correct
2. Modifiers - "unearthed in China", "of feathered dinosaurs", and "of the close evolutionary relationship" are all placed close the their respective noun entities that they modify - Correct
3. Idiom - Between X and Y - Correct
The above sentence conveys a clear meaning and has no grammatical errors. So, (A) looks fine.
Choice analysis:
Quote:
- I am not sure about the grammar but I definitely find this chunk of information wordy.
The modifier "of the close evolutionary relationship" is placed far away from the noun - evidence - that it is supposed to modify
The verb tense seems fine to me. By using the present perfect tense, the author is conveying that from all the discoveries made till now, this one - fossils unearthed in China - is the most important one
I am not sure but since we want to say that the fossil discovery is the most important one, I believe using a superlative form - most, as used in (A) is better than using a comparative form - more than
Quote:
- Apart from the "more than" which I less prefer, I am not happy with the placement of "between dinosaurs and birds". Since this modifier modifies "evolutionary relationship" it must be placed close to the noun.
Quote:
- The placement of "that have yet been discovered" seems to illogically modify "dinosaurs and birds". Since this noun modifier (Relative clause modifier beginning with that) is supposed to modify the noun "evidence", it must be placed as close as possible to it
Quote:
Again, the modifier "of the close evolutionary relationship" must be placed as close as possible to the noun - evidence - it is supposed to modify.
I don't think that "more... than" is technically incorrect. But yeah, I would prefer the superlative form. Moreover, many have commented on the usage of "any" saying that "any" also includes the fossils unearthed in China. I am not really sure about this one, but it seems plausible
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Very confusing one. The use of YET is quite complex for me (non-native speaker)
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Kimberly77
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KarishmaB
Thanks KarishmaB for great explanation.
To clarify, not quite sure we can't compare old fossils to new fossils here? Are't they similar elements?
Also you mentioned comparison cannot be between one element and the whole group. It must be between one element and the rest of the group.
Isn't both are comparing one to many here (the whole group/ the rest of the group ?
Not sure what did I miss?
Could you help clarify?
Thanks
Kimberly77
Consider this:
Kimberly is taller than all my friends.
This makes sense if Kimberly is not my friend. I have a friend group of 3 - A, B and C say. Kimberly is taller than all three of them.
But what if my friend group has 4 people - Kimberly, A, B and C?
Can I say "Kimberly is taller than all my friends"? No. I must say, "Kimberly is taller than all my other friends."
or "Kimberly is tallest of all my friends."
Similarly, I cannot say, "Fossils A offer evidence more dramatic than what has yet been discovered" because fossils A are a part of the evidence that has yet been discovered. Fossils A have been discovered already.
Comparing a person with a group is not a problem as long as the person doesn't belong to the same group.
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Kimberly77
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Great explanation always KarishmaB, thanks a bunch for your quick reply too and get it now.
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