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Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one- 03 Jul 2017, 01:00
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Quote:
Can anyone explain why D is wrong?
Here's (D) again, inserted into the sentence:

The problem here is that it's not clear what, exactly is restricted to deeper bodies of water -- it almost sounds like "adulthood" is the thing that's restricted, and that doesn't make sense. Much clearer to repeat the subject, as choice (E) does.
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Hi GMATNinja,

I understand why D is wrong for the reasons above. Could you tell why the usage of "until" in D is incorrect? Thanks a ton!
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Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one- 06 Jul 2017, 19:24
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I understand why D is wrong for the reasons above. Could you tell why the usage of "until" in D is incorrect? Thanks a ton!
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I'm not sure that there's a great answer to that, unfortunately. I think the GMAT might argue that the correct -- and more direct -- idiom is "take three years to accomplish a task", not "take three years until they accomplish a task." The latter is a mild waste of words, I guess, but I'm not 100% sure that it's wrong. In any case, idioms are, by definition, arbitrary (and here's a long rant about idioms if you haven't already seen it). So there's really no explanation for why one idiom is correct and another isn't.

But more importantly, you're very unlikely to see this particular issue ever again on the GMAT. And even in this question, the idiom isn't the deciding factor at all.

I hope this helps!
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Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one-year period, it takes three to four years for the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada to reach adulthood, and so they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.

(A) it takes three to four years for the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada to reach adulthood, and so they are
(B) it takes the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada three to four years until it reaches adulthood, and therefore it is
(C) in the Sierra Nevada, mountain yellow-legged tree frogs take three to four years to reach adulthood, thus being
(D) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years until they reach adulthood, thus
(E) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years to reach adulthood, and so they are


Show Spoiler
Unlike frogs..........................., mountain yellow-legged frogs..............
Down to D, E.
E is correct. The right idiom is: X TAKE three or four years TO REACH.

In the original/initial question, the correct option E has ...and so.... And/So both being a conjunction, part of FANBOYS, can we use both together? or is it necessary to use two conjunctions?
Show more

I was wondering the same thing. I saw some other threads that say "and so" is wrong. Here is the link to one of them:

The four-million-year-old fossilized skeleton known as Lucy is so small compared with many other skeleton presumed to be of same species, and so some paleontologists have argued that Lucy represents a different lineage.
A. presumed to be of same species, and so - incorrect
B. presumed to be of the same species that - correct. the skeleton is so small......that....
C. presumed that they are of same species, and so - 'they' has no referent
D. that they have presumed to be of the same species, so that - 'they' has no referent
E. that they have presumed are of the same species, and - 'they' has no referent

Maybe because "and so" is wrong so they updated the question and changed "and so" to "with the result that" instead?
GMATNinja would you be so kind to answer one more question please?
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rrkiitm

In the original/initial question, the correct option E has ...and so.... And/So both being a conjunction, part of FANBOYS, can we use both together? or is it necessary to use two conjunctions?

I was wondering the same thing. I saw some other threads that say "and so" is wrong. Here is the link to one of them:

The four-million-year-old fossilized skeleton known as Lucy is so small compared with many other skeleton presumed to be of same species, and so some paleontologists have argued that Lucy represents a different lineage.
A. presumed to be of same species, and so - incorrect
B. presumed to be of the same species that - correct. the skeleton is so small......that....
C. presumed that they are of same species, and so - 'they' has no referent
D. that they have presumed to be of the same species, so that - 'they' has no referent
E. that they have presumed are of the same species, and - 'they' has no referent

Maybe because "and so" is wrong so they updated the question and changed "and so" to "with the result that" instead?
GMATNinja would you be so kind to answer one more question please?
Show more

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the phrase "and so." There are tons of different uses of the word "so", and in this case, it basically means "therefore" --
and there's no reason why you couldn't use "therefore" with "and."

And for what it's worth, you might not want to take that question about Lucy too seriously. I think it's from some dodgy files that were floating around the internet 10 or 15 years ago, and those questions may or may not represent the style of actual GMAT questions.
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Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one- 16 Aug 2020, 10:26
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Quote:
Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one-year period, it takes three to four years for the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada to reach adulthood, and so they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.

(A) it takes three to four years for the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada to reach adulthood, and so they are
(B) it takes the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada three to four years until it reaches adulthood, and therefore it is
(C) in the Sierra Nevada, mountain yellow-legged tree frogs take three to four years to reach adulthood, thus being
(D) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years until they reach adulthood, thus
(E) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years to reach adulthood, and so they are
Show more
Quote:
D. xxx adulthood, thus restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.
Show more
For a moment , assume thus is not there and the sentence is :
i. xxx adulthood, restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.
Here restricted xx modifies adulthood, right?
What if there is no comma and the sentence is :
ii. Xx adulthood restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.
Then also restricted modifies adulthood ,

Q1a. What is the value of comma in such a case?

Q1b. Can I say the difference in i and ii is :
- Doer is mountain yellow-legged frogs in I; no need doer in ii.
Is my understanding right?


Quote:
(E) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years to reach adulthood, and so they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.
Show more
so they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.
How to read this sentence ?
i. So, they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.
ii. They are so restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.- wrong
Correct version should have been:
They are so restricted to deeper bodies of water that THEY do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.

Q2: So i is right meaning ? Why no comma is present in E. Is it optional?
Please confirm

AndrewN AjiteshArun Q1a,Q1b,Q2
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Hello, imSKR. To help myself with the organizational aspect in responding to your post, I will reply in-line below.

imSKR
Quote:
Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one-year period, it takes three to four years for the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada to reach adulthood, and so they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.

(A) it takes three to four years for the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada to reach adulthood, and so they are
(B) it takes the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada three to four years until it reaches adulthood, and therefore it is
(C) in the Sierra Nevada, mountain yellow-legged tree frogs take three to four years to reach adulthood, thus being
(D) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years until they reach adulthood, thus
(E) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years to reach adulthood, and so they are
Quote:
D. xxx adulthood, thus restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.
For a moment , assume thus is not there and the sentence is :
i. xxx adulthood, restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.
Here restricted xx modifies adulthood, right?
Show more
This must be -ed modifier week or something: yours is the fourth inquiry I have responded to on the matter in about as many days. To be clear, you cannot simply look to the last noun before a comma to attribute a past participle, despite what many others may propose on this forum. It is true that in most cases, the past participle will behave in this manner, but there are logical exceptions, and they typically incorporate prepositional phrases (with an object of a preposition). Please see this post, in which I discuss the matter with a given sentence. In this case, focusing just on the modifier (since until is the wrong idiom in (D)), I would argue that restricted most logically refers back to the frog and NOT to adulthood. How can adulthood be restricted to deeper bodies of water? That makes no sense. We would thus need to backtrack a little further in the sentence to find a logical noun that could be restricted in such a manner.

imSKR
What if there is no comma and the sentence is :
ii. Xx adulthood restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.
Then also restricted modifies adulthood ,

Q1a. What is the value of comma in such a case?

Q1b. Can I say the difference in i and ii is :
- Doer is mountain yellow-legged frogs in I; no need doer in ii.
Is my understanding right?
Show more
Sentence ii. would be an obvious candidate for elimination. There is less wiggle room when the participle is not preceded by a comma, and again, it does not make sense to say that adulthood is restricted to deeper bodies of water. In short, the comma can make a difference.

imSKR
Quote:
(E) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years to reach adulthood, and so they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.
so they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.
How to read this sentence ?
i. So, they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.
ii. They are so restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.- wrong
Correct version should have been:
They are so restricted to deeper bodies of water that THEY do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.

Q2: So i is right meaning ? Why no comma is present in E. Is it optional?
Please confirm

AndrewN AjiteshArun Q1a,Q1b,Q2
Thanks!
Show more
You probably know that so is used as a conjunction to mark a conclusion. We can thus read the line in question as one that illustrates a cause-and-effect relationship, a premise followed by its logical endpoint. If you view this portion of the sentence in isolation through a slightly different lens, I think you will see how so fits in.

Because mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years to reach adulthood, and so they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.

The dependent that clause modifies the bodies of water, not the frogs. That is, it is the bodies of water that are understood to neither dry up nor freeze. One final note here is that two conjunctions are competing for space when one alone would do. The sentence requires so, but not and in and so. The superfluous word is more or less disregarded in everyday English, quite similar to the same word in the expression and yet when the contrasting yet could stand on its own two legs.

I hope that helps with your questions on this one. Thank you for thinking to ask me.

- Andrew
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pqhai carcass sayantanc2k

Faced the same question in one of the GMAT prep test, but with a slight variation.

You can see the difference in the clause after the comma in Option E, any views how "with the result" is correct?

I generally found sentences/clauses starting "with" to be a bit awkward, any help please..
Show more

sayantanc2k GMATNinja

I too came across this variation, selecting (D), but I'm certain had choice (E) been as per the other variation ("and so they are.."), I would have chosen E. My reasoning is "with the result that they are" is simply too long/windy when the GMAT looks for simplicity. Any thoughts on this?

sayantanc2k , could you please elaborate on your explanation "here the prepositional phrase "with the result..." is used as a verb modifier to modify "take". I am having trouble seeing as to how it acts as a modifier in this particular context.

Thanks in advance
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pqhai carcass sayantanc2k

Faced the same question in one of the GMAT prep test, but with a slight variation.

You can see the difference in the clause after the comma in Option E, any views how "with the result" is correct?

I generally found sentences/clauses starting "with" to be a bit awkward, any help please..

sayantanc2k GMATNinja

I too came across this variation, selecting (D), but I'm certain had choice (E) been as per the other variation ("and so they are.."), I would have chosen E. My reasoning is "with the result that they are" is simply too long/windy when the GMAT looks for simplicity. Any thoughts on this?

sayantanc2k , could you please elaborate on your explanation "here the prepositional phrase "with the result..." is used as a verb modifier to modify "take". I am having trouble seeing as to how it acts as a modifier in this particular context.

Thanks in advance
Show more


I think you meant to refer this question:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/unlike-frogs ... fl=similar

Another question ( with the result that) for practice: https://gmatclub.com/forum/as-the-honey ... 78082.html

I was very much clear with the below explanation given in post:

In choice (E), the clause introduced by "with the result that" modifies the verb "take". For example, "I ate, with the result that I was full." To what extent did I eat? To the extent that I was full.

In the park example, the prepositional phrase, "with arms and legs..." functions as an adverb modifying "sleeping". How were the monkeys sleeping? With arms and legs hanging..

I hope it helps.
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ankitmining
pqhai carcass sayantanc2k

Faced the same question in one of the GMAT prep test, but with a slight variation.

You can see the difference in the clause after the comma in Option E, any views how "with the result" is correct?

I generally found sentences/clauses starting "with" to be a bit awkward, any help please..

sayantanc2k GMATNinja

I too came across this variation, selecting (D), but I'm certain had choice (E) been as per the other variation ("and so they are.."), I would have chosen E. My reasoning is "with the result that they are" is simply too long/windy when the GMAT looks for simplicity. Any thoughts on this?

sayantanc2k , could you please elaborate on your explanation "here the prepositional phrase "with the result..." is used as a verb modifier to modify "take". I am having trouble seeing as to how it acts as a modifier in this particular context.

Thanks in advance


I think you meant to refer this question:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/unlike-frogs ... fl=similar

Another question ( with the result that) for practice: https://gmatclub.com/forum/as-the-honey ... 78082.html

I was very much clear with the below explanation given in post:

"In choice (E), the clause introduced by "with the result that" modifies the verb "take". For example, "I ate, with the result that I was full." To what extent did I eat? To the extent that I was full.
In the park example, the prepositional phrase, "with arms and legs..." functions as an adverb modifying "sleeping". How were the monkeys sleeping? With arms and legs hanging.."

I hope it helps.
Show more

Yes, it helped! - thanks for directing me to the actual thread with the variation discussed.
pqhai or one of the moderators might want to add a link to the alternate version - on to the question here.
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Hasn't this question already been thoroughly beaten to death here? https://gmatclub.com/forum/unlike-frogs ... 51036.html

hazelnut
Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one-year period, it takes three to four years for the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada to reach adulthood, and so they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.

(A) it takes three to four years for the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada to reach adulthood, and so they are
(B) it takes the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada three to four years until it reaches adulthood, and therefore it is
(C) in the Sierra Nevada, mountain yellow-legged tree frogs take three to four years to reach adulthood, thus being
(D) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years until they reach adulthood, thus
(E) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years to reach adulthood, with the result that they are

GMATNinjaTwo Could you help to explain the phrase "with the result that" in (E)? Does "comma, with" modify the whole preceding clause?

Similar sentence from GMATPREP. [LINK]

Quote:
Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging like socks on a clothesline.

In choice (E), the clause introduced by "with the result that" modifies the verb "take". For example, "I ate, with the result that I was full." To what extent did I eat? To the extent that I was full.

In the park example, the prepositional phrase, "with arms and legs..." functions as an adverb modifying "sleeping". How were the monkeys sleeping? With arms and legs hanging...
Show more

Bonjour !
May i clarify one doubt please?
I chose d in exam. in my mind -->> 'with' cannot take a clause. now, after reading your explanation and obviously the correct ans is E , will I be right to say - 'with' cannot take an independent clause?
and here in the question after 'with' the clause is not an independent clause.
I read in OG in one of the question, but I have to really spend a good amount of time to find the exact question. Hence, i am relying on your explanation. Please help !

Merci GMATNinja. As always your explanations really help :)
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750Barrier


Bonjour !
May i clarify one doubt please?
I chose d in exam. in my mind -->> 'with' cannot take a clause. now, after reading your explanation and obviously the correct ans is E , will I be right to say - 'with' cannot take an independent clause?
and here in the question after 'with' the clause is not an independent clause.
I read in OG in one of the question, but I have to really spend a good amount of time to find the exact question. Hence, i am relying on your explanation. Please help !

Merci GMATNinja. As always your explanations really help :)
Show more

Hello 750Barrier,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your question, yes - it would be accurate to say that "with" cannot introduce an independent clause; "with" is generally used to introduce a modifier of some kind.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
Experts' Global Team
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Bonjour !
May i clarify one doubt please?
I chose d in exam. in my mind -->> 'with' cannot take a clause. now, after reading your explanation and obviously the correct ans is E , will I be right to say - 'with' cannot take an independent clause?
and here in the question after 'with' the clause is not an independent clause.
I read in OG in one of the question, but I have to really spend a good amount of time to find the exact question. Hence, i am relying on your explanation. Please help !

Merci GMATNinja. As always your explanations really help :)

Hello 750Barrier,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your question, yes - it would be accurate to say that "with" cannot introduce an independent clause; "with" is generally used to introduce a modifier of some kind.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
Experts' Global Team
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thank you so much for the confirmation.
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750Barrier

Bonjour !
May i clarify one doubt please?
I chose d in exam. in my mind -->> 'with' cannot take a clause. now, after reading your explanation and obviously the correct ans is E , will I be right to say - 'with' cannot take an independent clause?
and here in the question after 'with' the clause is not an independent clause.
I read in OG in one of the question, but I have to really spend a good amount of time to find the exact question. Hence, i am relying on your explanation. Please help !

Merci GMATNinja. As always your explanations really help :)
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Thank you for the kind words!

Here's how I'd think about it: "with" is a preposition, and prepositions are, by definition, modifiers. But while a modifier by itself can't be considered a clause, there's no reason why it can't introduce one.

For instance: "With great power comes great responsibility," is a full clause, as it has a subject, "great responsibility" and a verb "comes." (They just happen to be inverted here.) So you wouldn't want to eyeball it and dismiss it as a fragment, simply because a "with" introduces the sentence. The real question is whether what follows the modifier contains a subject and a verb.

I hope that clears things up!
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Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one- 20 Jan 2022, 02:09
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GMATNinja
Quote:
Can anyone explain why D is wrong?
Here's (D) again, inserted into the sentence:

Quote:
Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one-year period, the mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years until they reach adulthood, thus restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.

The problem here is that it's not clear what, exactly is restricted to deeper bodies of water -- it almost sounds like "adulthood" is the thing that's restricted, and that doesn't make sense. Much clearer to repeat the subject, as choice (E) does.
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moreover in D , what I think wrong is : and is followed by an independent clause .which is being taken care in option E
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Two questions.
1) Is ", and so" a common construction? That seems like redundant conjunctions.
2) I've seen a lot of people saying option D) refers to likelihood, but isn't restricted a modifier that refers to the entire preceding clause?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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studymaestro12
Two questions.
1) Is ", and so" a common construction? That seems like redundant conjunctions.
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In the context of "and so," "so" is used not as a conjunction but as a conjunctive adverb, like "therefore." So, just as "and therefore" is correct, "and so" is correct.

Quote:
2) I've seen a lot of people saying option D) refers to likelihood, but isn't restricted a modifier that refers to the entire preceding clause?
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A past participle normally modifies the preceding or following noun, and when a past participle is preceded by "thus," I'm pretty sure there's no way for it to modify anything other than the preceding or following noun.

For example:

Thus restricted, John had been rendered unable to cause further damage.

Any company thus restricted may find it difficult to find new investors.

Notice that the following doesn't work:

John had been rendered unable to cause further damage, thus restricted.
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Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one- 07 Jun 2022, 21:56
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Bunuel, GMAT Prep question. Please tag it.
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Bunuel, GMAT Prep question. Please tag it.
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Done. Thank you!
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Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one- 11 Jun 2022, 18:11
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pqhai
Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one-year period, it takes three to four years for the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada to reach adulthood, and so they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.

Narrow down to (D) and (E) using the strict rule of "unlike"

(A) it takes three to four years for the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada to reach adulthood, and so they are

(B) it takes the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada three to four years until it reaches adulthood, and therefore it is

(C) in the Sierra Nevada, mountain yellow-legged tree frogs take three to four years to reach adulthood, thus being

(D) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years until they reach adulthood, thus

"thus restricted" can modify two things. Either 1) the preceding noun "adulthood" or 2) the preceding verb "to reach adulthood." Neither makes sense. Abandon (D)

Also, "until" is used incorrectly here. An example of a phrase with until is "[Something that was true up to a point] + UNTIL + [Something else that triggered the change]." (e.g., I was so tired earlier today UNTIL I took a long nap in the afternoon)

(E) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years to reach adulthood, and so they are

I don't LOVE it, but it's the best one out there.

Remember this correct form: "take [TIME PERIOD] to + verb" = "take three to four years to reach"

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https://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/28/science/when-the-trout-arrive-the-amphibian-exodus-begins.html

Also, unlike many other frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles to adults in one year, the high-elevation frogs take three to four years to reach adulthood, so they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter. Those lakes are the same ones that hold trout.

Unlike frogs..........................., mountain yellow-legged frogs..............
Down to D, E.
E is correct. The right idiom is: X TAKE three or four years TO REACH.
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Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one- 31 Jul 2022, 19:30
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GMATNinja
Hasn't this question already been thoroughly beaten to death here? https://gmatclub.com/forum/unlike-frogs ... 51036.html

hazelnut
Unlike frogs that metamorphose from tadpoles into adults within a one-year period, it takes three to four years for the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada to reach adulthood, and so they are restricted to deeper bodies of water that do not dry up in summer or freeze solid in winter.

(A) it takes three to four years for the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada to reach adulthood, and so they are
(B) it takes the mountain yellow-legged frog of the Sierra Nevada three to four years until it reaches adulthood, and therefore it is
(C) in the Sierra Nevada, mountain yellow-legged tree frogs take three to four years to reach adulthood, thus being
(D) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years until they reach adulthood, thus
(E) mountain yellow-legged frogs of the Sierra Nevada take three to four years to reach adulthood, with the result that they are

GMATNinjaTwo Could you help to explain the phrase "with the result that" in (E)? Does "comma, with" modify the whole preceding clause?

Similar sentence from GMATPREP. [LINK]

Quote:
Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging like socks on a clothesline.

In choice (E), the clause introduced by "with the result that" modifies the verb "take". For example, "I ate, with the result that I was full." To what extent did I eat? To the extent that I was full.

In the park example, the prepositional phrase, "with arms and legs..." functions as an adverb modifying "sleeping". How were the monkeys sleeping? With arms and legs hanging...
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They are restricted to deeper bodies of water....it is an independent statement joined by comma..isn't it wrong..

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