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Post-referendum fate of LBS

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Post-referendum fate of LBS [#permalink]

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New post 25 Jun 2016, 23:09
Any recent admits dropping out of LBS?

Ranking is a concern - the applicant quality likely is going to drop dramatically given the uncertanty and potential hiring freezes. Who would even want to apply for 2019 class given all the issues.

Any thoughts on the future for the school?

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New post 26 Jun 2016, 20:01
Didn't apply to LBS but caught this blog entry by a LBS student on another thread http://mbainpursuit.blogspot.hk/2016/06/post-referendum-discussions.html.

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New post 26 Jun 2016, 23:55
blockman wrote:
Any recent admits dropping out of LBS?

Ranking is a concern - the applicant quality likely is going to drop dramatically given the uncertanty and potential hiring freezes. Who would even want to apply for 2019 class given all the issues.

Any thoughts on the future for the school?


I concur with the link provided above, and I add that in my opinion, there is no better time to go to LBS. Where better to live and breathe such historic events as they unfold, learning about events as they transpire from leaders in European business and academia?

Also, the pound is so cheap!

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New post 27 Jun 2016, 02:47
except now it will probably get a lot harder to get a job if Britain ends up going into recession . As a political science student it might be the perfect place to be to see how the events unfold. Dont think as a business student you wont be in such a situation. Its not just UK the uncertainty that comes with a BREXIT is going to affect other European counties as well.

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New post 27 Jun 2016, 05:10
Gnial wrote:
I concur with the link provided above, and I add that in my opinion, there is no better time to go to LBS. Where better to live and breathe such historic events as they unfold, learning about events as they transpire from leaders in European business and academia?

Also, the pound is so cheap!

Sure thats all fun but in the end getting a job is a goal for most, and most summer interniships are in london and at least half the class stays in London post graduation - all this is now in jeopardy.

Disagree with cheap, doesnt matter if you dont get return on your investment...lower USD salaries are going to stack up very poorly against US schools and EU schools, and quality of jobs/ applicants might drop dramatically leading to a downward spiral for LBS, i mean really, id pay double to go to HBS, cheap is irrelevant.

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New post 27 Jun 2016, 17:09
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blockman wrote:
Gnial wrote:
I concur with the link provided above, and I add that in my opinion, there is no better time to go to LBS. Where better to live and breathe such historic events as they unfold, learning about events as they transpire from leaders in European business and academia?

Also, the pound is so cheap!

Sure thats all fun but in the end getting a job is a goal for most, and most summer interniships are in london and at least half the class stays in London post graduation - all this is now in jeopardy.

Disagree with cheap, doesnt matter if you dont get return on your investment...lower USD salaries are going to stack up very poorly against US schools and EU schools, and quality of jobs/ applicants might drop dramatically leading to a downward spiral for LBS, i mean really, id pay double to go to HBS, cheap is irrelevant.


If you are right and the number of MBA positions do decrease in London, remember that 93% of the class comes from outside the UK and have international work experience. All the major banks and consulting companies in the world recruit heavily at LBS. I am a new admit (MBA2018) and we have already been invited to MBB and big bank recruitment events throughout the Americas (including the U.S.), Europe and Asia, and we do not even start our MBA for two months. I just attended an LBS alumni event in Western Canada with 20 alumni. I asked them directly, and none of them have business interests that are affected negatively by the Brexit vote. LBS students are trained and encouraged to be internationally flexible and mobile - international experience is a core admissions criteria - so if there is less opportunity in London, then students will find work elsewhere and be no worse off for it.

For those people who do get jobs in London, Brexit could bring many benefits. I have heard this story told by numerous banking professionals, and it goes just like it did with my friend from Citibank: He received 2 promotions in 6 months due to layoffs and employees leaving. Alex Edmans, former Wharton and current LBS professor, told a similar story in his blog post here: http://alexedmans.com/the-rational-response-to-brexit/:

Someone on Twitter said he’s just graduated and about to start his career, and asked me what he should do differently post-Brexit. The answer is nothing. Promotion and relocation opportunities exist as they did before. The way to get promotion (hard work and initiative) is the same as before. Skilled workers can get visas and relocate. I spent 10 years in the US surrounded by others on student or worker visas like me.

I joined Morgan Stanley two months before the horrible tragedy that was 9/11. There were four rounds of major cuts in my two years there. But, this again provided opportunities. As a first-year analyst, I had no Associate and so worked directly with a VP and an MD. I went to meetings that I wouldn’t have had a hope of going to if the economy was booming and we were well staffed. Virtually any analyst that stayed for the full three years was promoted to Associate afterwards, because we had so few Associates due to the culls.


For those of us who are more entrepreneurial minded, this is an amazing opportunity. With such a cheap exchange rate anyone looking to finance their startup with foreign funds just had their job get easier. Also, volatility and change breeds opportunity. For one simple example, large changes in exchange rates can create a surge in transactions that are very lucrative for the businesses and service professionals involved in those transactions. When oil prices collapsed recently and the Canadian dollar tanked, there was a massive amount of FDI into certain industries - especially into real estate. Those entrepreneurs who predicted the FDI into the real estate sector have made a huge amount of money establishing real estate finance/development/construction companies, as have the service professionals assisting with those transactions. I would not be surprised at all if London had the exact same real estate investment surge.

I feel the need to emphasize my previous post, that there is likely no better spot to be during these Brexit events than in the top business school in London. It is not about fun, it is about being on the forefront of the profound breakthroughs that happen as a result of these shifts. I was doing my undergrad degree in economics during the 2008/09 financial crisis. The level of classroom engagement and learning skyrocketed, and we had the opportunity to listen to, and discuss theory with, academic leaders who were at the forefront of some of the biggest issues. As academia was sorting through the new paradigm, the students were along for the journey. Classroom curriculum changed in real time. I emerged with a cutting edge and much deeper understanding of economic, political and business principles as a result. It does not matter what your intended vocation is, this is a rare exponential learning opportunity (my term). It is apparent how applicable the knowledge will be over the course of your career with so many independence-minded states grappling with their own separations: Catalonia, Scotland, Italy, Greece, Quebec, Hong Kong, etc.

As for the cheapness being irrelevant, you're contradicting yourself a bit, because cost is part of the ROI analysis that you are promoting. Let me put it in perspective for you... currently the exchange rate is about 20% less than it was a few months ago. When you take into account tuition AND living costs, which could easily be 125,000 pounds over two years, that is the difference between needing to exchange US$165,000, or needing to exchange US$205,000. That saves about US$40,000. That is nothing to scoff at. Anyone looking to more permanently relocate to the UK just made an even bigger windfall. LBS average age of admits is older than the U.S. schools by a couple of years, so many students own houses and other assets abroad - this is a pretty decent chance to get into the local market should they be contemplating a more permanent move.

I have ethical concerns about Brexit due to the financial harm and human cost it will cause, but as part of the MBA selection equation, Brexit is not a negative for me. That said, if you are having trouble envisioning the opportunity of LBS for your own goals and interests, but you can see a path to personal success much more clearly at a top U.S. school, then by all means that would seem to be the best choice for you.

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Post-referendum fate of LBS [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jun 2016, 17:17
Gnial wrote:
blockman wrote:
Gnial wrote:
I concur with the link provided above, and I add that in my opinion, there is no better time to go to LBS. Where better to live and breathe such historic events as they unfold, learning about events as they transpire from leaders in European business and academia?

Also, the pound is so cheap!

Sure thats all fun but in the end getting a job is a goal for most, and most summer interniships are in london and at least half the class stays in London post graduation - all this is now in jeopardy.

Disagree with cheap, doesnt matter if you dont get return on your investment...lower USD salaries are going to stack up very poorly against US schools and EU schools, and quality of jobs/ applicants might drop dramatically leading to a downward spiral for LBS, i mean really, id pay double to go to HBS, cheap is irrelevant.


If you are right and the number of MBA positions do decrease in London, remember that 93% of the class comes from outside the UK and have international work experience. All the major banks and consulting companies in the world recruit heavily at LBS. I am a new admit (MBA2018) and we have already been invited to MBB and big bank recruitment events throughout the Americas (including the U.S.), Europe and Asia, and we do not even start our MBA for two months. I just attended an LBS alumni event in Western Canada with 20 alumni. I asked them directly, and none of them have business interests that are affected negatively by the Brexit vote. LBS students are trained and encouraged to be internationally flexible and mobile - international experience is a core admissions criteria - so if there is less opportunity in London, then students will find work elsewhere and be no worse off for it.

For those people who do get jobs in London, Brexit could bring many benefits. I have heard this story told by numerous banking professionals, and it goes just like it did with my friend from Citibank: He received 2 promotions in 6 months due to layoffs and employees leaving. Alex Edmans, former Wharton and current LBS professor, told a similar story in his blog post here: http://alexedmans.com/the-rational-response-to-brexit/:

Someone on Twitter said he’s just graduated and about to start his career, and asked me what he should do differently post-Brexit. The answer is nothing. Promotion and relocation opportunities exist as they did before. The way to get promotion (hard work and initiative) is the same as before. Skilled workers can get visas and relocate. I spent 10 years in the US surrounded by others on student or worker visas like me.

I joined Morgan Stanley two months before the horrible tragedy that was 9/11. There were four rounds of major cuts in my two years there. But, this again provided opportunities. As a first-year analyst, I had no Associate and so worked directly with a VP and an MD. I went to meetings that I wouldn’t have had a hope of going to if the economy was booming and we were well staffed. Virtually any analyst that stayed for the full three years was promoted to Associate afterwards, because we had so few Associates due to the culls.


For those of us who are more entrepreneurial minded, this is an amazing opportunity. With such a cheap exchange rate anyone looking to finance their startup with foreign funds just had their job get easier. Also, volatility and change breeds opportunity. For one simple example, large changes in exchange rates can create a surge in transactions that are very lucrative for the businesses and service professionals involved in those transactions. When oil prices collapsed recently and the Canadian dollar tanked, there was a massive amount of FDI into certain industries - especially into real estate. Those entrepreneurs who predicted the FDI into the real estate sector have made a huge amount of money establishing real estate finance/development/construction companies, as have the service professionals assisting with those transactions. I would not be surprised at all if London had the exact same real estate investment surge.

I feel the need to emphasize my previous post, that there is likely no better spot to be during these Brexit events than in the top business school in London. It is not about fun, it is about being on the forefront of the profound breakthroughs that happen as a result of these shifts. I was doing my undergrad degree in economics during the 2008/09 financial crisis. The level of classroom engagement and learning skyrocketed, and we had the opportunity to listen to, and discuss theory with, academic leaders who were at the forefront of some of the biggest issues. As academia was sorting through the new paradigm, the students were along for the journey. Classroom curriculum changed in real time. I emerged with a cutting edge and much deeper understanding of economic, political and business principles as a result. It does not matter what your intended vocation is, this is a rare exponential learning opportunity (my term). It is apparent how applicable the knowledge will be over the course of your career with so many independence-minded states grappling with their own separations: Catalonia, Scotland, Italy, Greece, Quebec, Hong Kong, etc.

As for the cheapness being irrelevant, you're contradicting yourself a bit, because cost is part of the ROI analysis that you are promoting. Let me put it in perspective for you... currently the exchange rate is about 20% less than it was a few months ago. When you take into account tuition AND living costs, which could easily be 125,000 pounds over two years, that is the difference between needing to exchange US$165,000, or needing to exchange US$205,000. That saves about US$40,000. That is nothing to scoff at. Anyone looking to more permanently relocate to the UK just made an even bigger windfall. LBS average age of admits is older than the U.S. schools by a couple of years, so many students own houses and other assets abroad - this is a pretty decent chance to get into the local market should they be contemplating a more permanent move.

I have ethical concerns about Brexit due to the financial harm and human cost it will cause, but as part of the MBA selection equation, Brexit is not a negative for me. That said, if you are having trouble envisioning the opportunity of LBS for your own goals and interests, but you can see a path to personal success much more clearly at a top U.S. school, then by all means that would seem to be the best choice for you.


This is actually the best content i read about the effect of Brexit as it relates to the LBS MBA. Thank you.
Do you have any thoughts on the effect this is going to have on INSEAD?

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Re: Post-referendum fate of LBS [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jun 2016, 17:47
blockman wrote:
This is actually the best content i read about the effect of Brexit as it relates to the LBS MBA. Thank you.
Do you have any thoughts on the effect this is going to have on INSEAD?


Unfortunately I do not know much about INSEAD, I have never read their employment or admissions reports, nor have I ever researched their professors. (I only speak English, so I did not meet their entrance requirements)

I do know that they have a very diverse student body - I would expect it to affect each student differently depending on their industry, function and preferred work locations.

I would caution that Brexit is not a sure thing yet. The referendum was not binding, and there are many things that could happen over the next few months as a new leader is elected.

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Re: Post-referendum fate of LBS [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jun 2016, 19:11
Gnial wrote:
blockman wrote:
This is actually the best content i read about the effect of Brexit as it relates to the LBS MBA. Thank you.
Do you have any thoughts on the effect this is going to have on INSEAD?


Unfortunately I do not know much about INSEAD, I have never read their employment or admissions reports, nor have I ever researched their professors. (I only speak English, so I did not meet their entrance requirements)

I do know that they have a very diverse student body - I would expect it to affect each student differently depending on their industry, function and preferred work locations.

I would caution that Brexit is not a sure thing yet. The referendum was not binding, and there are many things that could happen over the next few months as a new leader is elected.


Well put Gnial. :) Agree that the Brexit definitely isn't a sure thing and whatever the outcome, the markets will eventually get over the news and stablise. Opportunities are there for those good and enterprising enough to find it. Some of the American admits have suggested that the publicity of the Brexit has made the LBS brand a but more well-known in the US.

Regarding INSEAD, I don't think the Brexit will make that much difference to them either. If you look at where their graduates get employed, it's pretty much all over the world and not just the UK. The Brexit doesn't change the fact that INSEAD has a strong brand name in Europe.

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Re: Post-referendum fate of LBS [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jun 2016, 22:32
£ may be cheaper but may be permanently cheaper depending on what is the final outcome of negotiations.

The likelihood of a Norwegian or Swiss style trade deal is very low given the immigration rethoric of the leave camp.

Incentive to trigger article 50 is very low even for a new PM. Chances are that if its triggered UK bargaining power goes down and final trade deal is unfavourable to the UK. 2 years is not enough and might force to revert to WTO agreements (big loss). A Canada EU trade style deal took 7-8 years and that is not near as good as it is now. Meanwhile volatility will be high and markets may start having difficulty operating in such an environment. Informal negotiation could bring volatility down.

A black swan would be a sudden breakdown of the EU, a more protectionist world and beggar-thy-neighbour policies.

The leave camp rethoric seems very similar to what you are seeing with Trump in the US and could trigger a Le Pen in France and others in the rest of Europe consistent with a black swan previously described.

The context is less than ideal for LBS

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Post-referendum fate of LBS [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jun 2016, 00:41
PlastMan wrote:
£ may be cheaper but may be permanently cheaper depending on what is the final outcome of negotiations.

The likelihood of a Norwegian or Swiss style trade deal is very low given the immigration rethoric of the leave camp.

Incentive to trigger article 50 is very low even for a new PM. Chances are that if its triggered UK bargaining power goes down and final trade deal is unfavourable to the UK. 2 years is not enough and might force to revert to WTO agreements (big loss). A Canada EU trade style deal took 7-8 years and that is not near as good as it is now. Meanwhile volatility will be high and markets may start having difficulty operating in such an environment. Informal negotiation could bring volatility down.

A black swan would be a sudden breakdown of the EU, a more protectionist world and beggar-thy-neighbour policies.

The leave camp rethoric seems very similar to what you are seeing with Trump in the US and could trigger a Le Pen in France and others in the rest of Europe consistent with a black swan previously described.

The context is less than ideal for LBS

Posted from my mobile device


My understanding is similar to yours, but where I have a different view is the link between the UK economy and LBS. The school is a U.K. school by location, but its admissions are very aggressive on the international front which makes LBS more resilient to regional shocks.

Lets compare an LBS student body to an M7 student body.
LBS: 93% international, graduates are multi-lingual
M7: ~35% international, many graduates are English-only

These are very significant differences when considering the adaptability of students, as very few will find themselves stranded.

In addition to the demographics, there is also a mindset factor - not only does the student body have the languages and experience to accept positions all over the globe, but there is a strong mentality and school culture around doing so. It would be a mistake to consider LBS to have the same regional vulnerability of traditional schools.

Also, recessions generally spur people to go to school. Take the 2008 financial crisis. Graduate program enrollment increased by 10% to an all-time high during the crisis (http://cgsnet.org/graduate-enrollment-and-degrees). I think you will find a surge in applicants to the school that will keep the student body as impressive and competitive as ever.

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Post-referendum fate of LBS [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jun 2016, 01:31
Gnial wrote:
PlastMan wrote:
£ may be cheaper but may be permanently cheaper depending on what is the final outcome of negotiations.

The likelihood of a Norwegian or Swiss style trade deal is very low given the immigration rethoric of the leave camp.

Incentive to trigger article 50 is very low even for a new PM. Chances are that if its triggered UK bargaining power goes down and final trade deal is unfavourable to the UK. 2 years is not enough and might force to revert to WTO agreements (big loss). A Canada EU trade style deal took 7-8 years and that is not near as good as it is now. Meanwhile volatility will be high and markets may start having difficulty operating in such an environment. Informal negotiation could bring volatility down.

A black swan would be a sudden breakdown of the EU, a more protectionist world and beggar-thy-neighbour policies.

The leave camp rethoric seems very similar to what you are seeing with Trump in the US and could trigger a Le Pen in France and others in the rest of Europe consistent with a black swan previously described.

The context is less than ideal for LBS

Posted from my mobile device


My understanding is similar to yours, but where I have a different view is the link between the UK economy and LBS. The school is a U.K. school by location, but its admissions are very aggressive on the international front which makes LBS more resilient to regional shocks.

Lets compare an LBS student body to an M7 student body.
LBS: 93% international, graduates are multi-lingual
M7: ~35% international, many graduates are English-only

These are very significant differences when considering the adaptability of students, as very few will find themselves stranded.

In addition to the demographics, there is also a mindset factor - not only does the student body have the languages and experience to accept positions all over the globe, but there is a strong mentality and school culture around doing so. It would be a mistake to consider LBS to have the same regional vulnerability of traditional schools.

Also, recessions generally spur people to go to school. Take the 2008 financial crisis. Graduate program enrollment increased by 10% to an all-time high during the crisis (http://cgsnet.org/graduate-enrollment-and-degrees). I think you will find a surge in applicants to the school that will keep the student body as impressive and competitive as ever.


LBS could certainly be an oasis in a desert but do bear in mind that the school is skewed towards UK and Europe. 50% of the class ends up working in the UK. Overall 2/3 of the class ends up working in Europe (including UK) but only 1/3 of the class comes from Europe (incl. UK).
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Post-referendum fate of LBS [#permalink]

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New post 29 Jun 2016, 02:01
PlastMan wrote:
Gnial wrote:
PlastMan wrote:
£ may be cheaper but may be permanently cheaper depending on what is the final outcome of negotiations.

The likelihood of a Norwegian or Swiss style trade deal is very low given the immigration rethoric of the leave camp.

Incentive to trigger article 50 is very low even for a new PM. Chances are that if its triggered UK bargaining power goes down and final trade deal is unfavourable to the UK. 2 years is not enough and might force to revert to WTO agreements (big loss). A Canada EU trade style deal took 7-8 years and that is not near as good as it is now. Meanwhile volatility will be high and markets may start having difficulty operating in such an environment. Informal negotiation could bring volatility down.

A black swan would be a sudden breakdown of the EU, a more protectionist world and beggar-thy-neighbour policies.

The leave camp rethoric seems very similar to what you are seeing with Trump in the US and could trigger a Le Pen in France and others in the rest of Europe consistent with a black swan previously described.

The context is less than ideal for LBS

Posted from my mobile device


My understanding is similar to yours, but where I have a different view is the link between the UK economy and LBS. The school is a U.K. school by location, but its admissions are very aggressive on the international front which makes LBS more resilient to regional shocks.

Lets compare an LBS student body to an M7 student body.
LBS: 93% international, graduates are multi-lingual
M7: ~35% international, many graduates are English-only

These are very significant differences when considering the adaptability of students, as very few will find themselves stranded.

In addition to the demographics, there is also a mindset factor - not only does the student body have the languages and experience to accept positions all over the globe, but there is a strong mentality and school culture around doing so. It would be a mistake to consider LBS to have the same regional vulnerability of traditional schools.

Also, recessions generally spur people to go to school. Take the 2008 financial crisis. Graduate program enrollment increased by 10% to an all-time high during the crisis (http://cgsnet.org/graduate-enrollment-and-degrees). I think you will find a surge in applicants to the school that will keep the student body as impressive and competitive as ever.


LBS could certainly be an oasis in a desert but do bear in mind that the school is skewed towards UK and Europe. 50% of the class ends up working in the UK. Overall 2/3 of the class ends up working in Europe (including UK) but only 1/3 of the class comes from Europe (incl. UK).


The reason why the school is skewed towards UK and Europe is that, compared to their US MBA counterparts, non-EU LBS grads have a much easier time securing sponsored placement. Obtaining a work visa after graduating from a flagship British institution at post-experience level is almost an expectation rather than a privilege.

Few Americans (North/South) come to LBS with the intention to go back home, since they want to experience life in Europe/elsewhere. The few that do decide to come back are able to find respectable post-MBA positions. Same goes for AsiaPac and Africa folks.

The vast majority of people end up staying in London/Europe not because they are geographically limited but because they like it and because that was their intention from the get-go.

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Post-referendum fate of LBS [#permalink]

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New post 29 Jun 2016, 07:24
bottom line is nobody knows and everyone in an MBA program in EU are guinea pigs

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Re: Post-referendum fate of LBS [#permalink]

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New post 05 Jul 2016, 02:07
I expect that, in the next years, the quality of the LBS MBA will increase due to the latest fundraising success but nevertheless that its ranking position will still decline as a lot of its alumni are paid in GBP and this will reduce the programme's score in the ROI (and possibly other) ranking criteria in today's very close competition between the programmes, where everyone is seeking to gain some edge over the others. On the other hand, the exchange rate tuition discount for everyone outside the UK just seems to good to pass on, especially considering that the quality of the alumni and long-term reputation of the school is more relevant to current students than rankings and these will not be affected.

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Re: Post-referendum fate of LBS   [#permalink] 05 Jul 2016, 02:07
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