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Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el

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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 01 May 2018, 02:17
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Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolving as a kind of snorkel.

(A) that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolving

(B) that has suggested the elephant descended from an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving

In A and B, "evolving suggests that it is evolving right now. This is not what we want. Eliminate a and b.

(C) suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolved
with cannot be followed by an independent clause

(D) to suggest that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolved
The phrases are not parallel.

(E) to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved
The phrases are parallel now and convey a precise meaning.
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jul 2018, 09:06
Hi! I had a problem with the usage of "that" in option E. If we remove the part after first "that", "its" in the second half no longer refers to the elephant.
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jul 2018, 10:22
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gupta,
I am afraid I am not able couldn't get your point.
The part that follows the first 'that' is the subject of the relative clause. It is not a modifier contained within commas or dashes. There is no reason to remove it. If we remove the subject itself, then how will the pronoun have an antecedent?
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Aug 2018, 05:52
The sentence says that Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests something. What does it suggest? Let’s focus on this part:

that suggests
that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal,
and its trunk originally evolving as a kind of snorkel
The evidence suggests two things:

The elephant is a descendant of an aquatic animal
The trunk of the elephant originally evolved as a kind of snorkel (or if you don’t know the meaning of snorkel, you can think it as “kind of something”)
There are two clear problems with this sentence – both in latter part of “and”:

“its trunk originally evolving as a kind of snorkel” doesn’t have a verb. The “trunk” is followed by a verb-ing modifier. Logically, the idea communicated in this part seems to be suggested by the evidence. Therefore, it needs to be parallel to the clause before “and”. In other words, we need to change “evolving” (a modifier) to a verb in this part to make it correct.
The other problem is that we need to repeat “that” after “and” to make it parallel to “that the elephant is …”. Please remember that we cannot take “that” as common to the two clauses. Why do we need to repeat it? Because without such repetition, one can possibly understand the part after “and” to be another independent clause and not something suggested by the evidence
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Sep 2018, 00:30
My question regarding the correct answer E: to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved

Is second 'that' redundant?
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Oct 2018, 02:58
Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolving as a kind of snorkel.


(A) that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolving
'that' just popped out while reading this sentence. Here 'that' shows that evidence itself suggest. It is completely illogical. Moreover there is parallelism error as well. 'descended' and 'evolving'

(B) that has suggested the elephant descended from an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving
same error of 'that' as in option A. Parallelism error is still there. 'descended' and 'evolving'

(C) suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolved
Here 'suggesting' is modifying preceding noun 'evidence' and that is again illogical. usage of 'had descended' is also incorrect.

(D) to suggest that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolved
here 'to suggest' correctly shows intend of Australian embryologists. 'had descended' is incorrect.

(E) to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved
here 'to suggest' correctly shows intend of Australian embryologists. parallelism is also maintained. 'descended' and 'evolved'
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Nov 2018, 08:12
ronybtl wrote:
Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolving as a kind of snorkel.


(A) that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolving

(B) that has suggested the elephant descended from an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving

(C) suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolved

(D) to suggest that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolved

(E) to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved

Reformatted the question based on the Official Guide 2015. (SC 128)

Hi my honorable expert MartyMurray, GMATNinja, mikemcgarry, egmat, AjiteshArun, VeritasKarishma, EMPOWERgmatRichC, EducationAisle, DmitryFarber, ccooley, VeritasPrepBrian, ScottTargetTestPrep.
I'm just talking about E. Here, the correct sentence is:
Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel.
This sentence works like------
Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest
a) that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal (x)
and
b) that its trunk originally evolved (y)
So, the whole sentence looks like----
Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest x and y. This sentence will also be fine if I say: Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest Mr. Robert and Mr. John.
This x and y should be equivalent to some activities (like tense or clause) to make the original sentence legitimate. We can't say that ''I have found evidence to suggest pen (x) and paper (y)''. We should write the activities of 'pen and paper'. So, the complete sentence will be something like below.
I have found evidence to suggest pen is used to write something on the answer script and paper is used for making answer script.
In the above sentence, there should have a conjunction like THAT to animate the part ''I have found evidence to suggest''. So, the correct sentence will be:
I have found evidence to suggest THAT pen is used to write something on the answer script and paper is used for making answer script.
In the above sentence, I suggested two things simultaneously. So, if I break down the whole sentence into several parts, then the sentence will be like following.
I have found evidence to suggest THAT
1) pen is used to write something on the answer script
and
2) paper is used for making answer script.
So, if I write the above sentence into separate parts, then it'll work perfectly. Here are the separate parts of the above sentence:
1/ I have found evidence to suggest THAT pen is used to write something on the answer script.
2/ I have found evidence to suggest THAT paper is used for making answer script.


Now, if I write the sentence like below, then it'll be...
I have found evidence to suggest THAT pen is used to write something on the answer script and THAT paper is used for making answer script.
If I breakdown this sentence, then it'll be...
I have found evidence to suggest THAT
a) pen is used to write something on the answer script

and
b) THAT paper is used for making answer script.
So, if I write the above sentence into separate parts, then it'll NOT work perfectly. Here are the separate parts of the above sentence:
1/ I have found evidence to suggest THAT pen is used to write something on the answer script.
--->OK
2/ I have found evidence to suggest THAT THAT paper is used for making answer script.
---->NOT OK
SAME thing is happened in the original sentence of Official Guide!
Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel.
Now, if I break down this sentence into several parts it'll be....
Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest that
a) the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal

and
b) that its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel
So, if I write the above sentence into separate parts, then it'll NOT work perfectly. Here are the separate parts of the above sentence:
1/ Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal.
----->OK
2/ Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest that that its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel.
-----> NOT OK (doesn't make sense to me!)

Again,
if we break down the original sentence into several parts like below, then it'll be....
Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest
a) that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal (X)
b) that its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel (Y)
The whole sentence is something like below....
Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest X and Y.
So, the above sentence is ''SENTENCE FRAGMENT''

It seems that I'm questioning the Official Answer option. I've some confusion in this problem. But, unfortunately, all the confusion is in the correct option, which is E. So, it'll be better for me if you eradicate my confusion.
Thank you expert_
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Nov 2018, 07:56
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I love the breakdown, AsadAbu!

Hey, taking a couple steps back there's a good deal to learn here. A couple points for you:

1) Remember that clarity of meaning is a big emphasis with the error types that the GMAT tests. And here that extra "that" is there to make the meaning crystal clear, that the "and" connects two things that the evidence suggests:

We've found evidence that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal *and* that (the elephant's) trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel.

Without that extra "that" it's easy for the reader to see two nouns separated by "and" and see them both as objects, both as things that the elephant descended from. For example, if I were to say "DNA tests suggests that I descended from Irish immigrants and my wife's family is from Sweden" - here you can read it as I descended from two family tree branches (Irish immigrants and my wife's family, which would be a little unnerving) or that two groups (me and my wife's family) have taken DNA tests. (Then the portion "is from Sweden" stands as a fragment, but it makes you go back and re-read to unpack which two things are connected by "and" and that slows the reader down and causes confusion). A "that" after "and" makes it clear that DNA tests suggest two things - one about me and one about my wife's family.

ALSO note that in the SC problem we're talking about there's an "its" right after "and" in some choices. This is another place where clarity can be very helpful. Does "its" mean "the elephant's" or "an aquatic animal's"? With the "that" in place in choice (E), it makes it parallel with "the elephant's":

Evidence suggests 1) that the elephant... and 2)that its

That parallelism signals that both portions of "the evidence suggests" are about the elephant, thereby removing potential confusion about what "its" refers to.

2) So keep in mind that parallel structures in these kinds of constructions exists to ensure clear meanings particularly when you have lots of nouns in a sentence and a tiny connector like "and" or "or" (and potentially some pronouns, too). Parallel structure isn't just a random piece of grammar that the GMAT arbitrarily decided to test - the GMAT tests it because it adds a "reading comprehension" logical component to SC. Which brings me to:

3) One place we love teaching students to look for decision points on SC is anywhere you see a coordinating conjunction (and, or, but, etc.) followed by a structural word like "that," "which," "to," etc. Those are great signals that you're likely dealing with a parallel structure issue, and help point you back to the other parallel structural word - if I see "and that" I'm immediately going back to find a previous "that" so that I can investigate for parallelism and clarity of meaning. If I see "or which" it's the same thing...where's that other "which" so that i can assess? Sometimes (like here) those construction show up in an answer choice, but other times they appear far from the underlined portion. And *that's* where they can be all the more crucial (I'm struggling to find a link to my favorite example of this but I'll grab it and drop it in here via edit function).
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Nov 2018, 08:05
(A) that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolving

(B) that has suggested the elephant descended from an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving

(C) suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolved

(D) to suggest that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolved

(E) to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved

Meaning ....elephant descended from aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel. this looks perfect

that and that....maintains parallelism
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Nov 2018, 10:27
VeritasPrepBrian wrote:
I love the breakdown, AsadAbu!

Hey, taking a couple steps back there's a good deal to learn here. A couple points for you:

1) Remember that clarity of meaning is a big emphasis with the error types that the GMAT tests. And here that extra "that" is there to make the meaning crystal clear, that the "and" connects two things that the evidence suggests:

We've found evidence that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal *and* that (the elephant's) trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel.

Without that extra "that" it's easy for the reader to see two nouns separated by "and" and see them both as objects, both as things that the elephant descended from. For example, if I were to say "DNA tests suggests that I descended from Irish immigrants and my wife's family is from Sweden" - here you can read it as I descended from two family tree branches (Irish immigrants and my wife's family, which would be a little unnerving) or that two groups (me and my wife's family) have taken DNA tests. (Then the portion "is from Sweden" stands as a fragment, but it makes you go back and re-read to unpack which two things are connected by "and" and that slows the reader down and causes confusion). A "that" after "and" makes it clear that DNA tests suggest two things - one about me and one about my wife's family.

ALSO note that in the SC problem we're talking about there's an "its" right after "and" in some choices. This is another place where clarity can be very helpful. Does "its" mean "the elephant's" or "an aquatic animal's"? With the "that" in place in choice (E), it makes it parallel with "the elephant's":

Evidence suggests 1) that the elephant... and 2)that its

That parallelism signals that both portions of "the evidence suggests" are about the elephant, thereby removing potential confusion about what "its" refers to.

2) So keep in mind that parallel structures in these kinds of constructions exists to ensure clear meanings particularly when you have lots of nouns in a sentence and a tiny connector like "and" or "or" (and potentially some pronouns, too). Parallel structure isn't just a random piece of grammar that the GMAT arbitrarily decided to test - the GMAT tests it because it adds a "reading comprehension" logical component to SC. Which brings me to:

3) One place we love teaching students to look for decision points on SC is anywhere you see a coordinating conjunction (and, or, but, etc.) followed by a structural word like "that," "which," "to," etc. Those are great signals that you're likely dealing with a parallel structure issue, and help point you back to the other parallel structural word - if I see "and that" I'm immediately going back to find a previous "that" so that I can investigate for parallelism and clarity of meaning. If I see "or which" it's the same thing...where's that other "which" so that i can assess? Sometimes (like here) those construction show up in an answer choice, but other times they appear far from the underlined portion. And *that's* where they can be all the more crucial (I'm struggling to find a link to my favorite example of this but I'll grab it and drop it in here via edit function).


Hi VeritasPrepBrian,
First of all, Take my heartfelt thanks for giving me you precious time.
Now I need to take care the 2nd part-what's going on there.
If I remove first *that*, then the Embryologists are just suggesting "the elephant!), right? we used the first "that' not to make parallelism; we used the first "that' so that the Embryologists CAN"T suggest "the elephant" directly.

so, it is urgent to put a "that'' before ''the elephant''.

Now, it is time to find out the tag/parallelism marker--it is actually "and".

I am going to forget the 2nd "that" for some while, can I?

So, E says:
Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and *that* its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel.
Intuition says that The "its" after the tag/parallel marker (and) directly indicates "the elephant" not "aquatic animal" at all. So, if want to use 2nd *that*, then we need to put another EXTRA *that* after first *that*, because the first *that* has been used so that the Embryologists CAN'T suggest "the elephant", isn't it?

Here is the Ron's insight about the ambiguous "it". I put this example just to confirm that the use of "its" in the official sentence directly indicates "elephant", not "aquatic animal".

"Take the pizza out of the box and put it.........."
My intuition automatically associated "it" with "pizza" not with "box" even though it's technically ambiguous.

---
I love your following example, but have confusion a bit!
"DNA tests suggests that I descended from Irish immigrants and my wife's family is from Sweden"
In this example, "I" and "my wife's family" are two separate things. So, for better understanding we need a 2nd *that* after *and*, may be.
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2018, 08:05
If I go with the meaning of this sentence, the correct answer shall be C. Does the embryologists found evidence with a purpose? Or shall it a cause and effect, since embryologists found evidence,the evidence suggested.....? Plz help

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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2018, 10:41
egmat wrote:
targetgmatchotu wrote:
Anyone with the idiom of "Evidence" that/to


Hi there,

e-gmat team wishes you a very Happy New Year.

The idioms "evidence that", "evidence to" and "evidence of" are correct. The correctness of their usage depends on the way a particular senetnce has been written.

Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel.

(a) that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolved
(b) that has suggested the elephant descended from an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving
(c)suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolving
(d) to suggest that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolving


(e) to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved

The answer choices with "evidence that" has some grammatical issue. Only choice E is the grammatically correct. This is the reason why here use of "evidence to" is correct.

Now take a look at this GMAT Prep question:

Astronomers have uncovered evidence that a star that was as bright as the full moon exploding into view 340,000 years ago, emitting dazzling radiation that could have disrupted Earth's protective ozone layer and sunburned our Stone Age ancestors.

A) that a star that was as bright as the full moon exploding into view 340,000 years ago, emitting
B) that a star as bright as the full moon exploded into view 340,000 years ago, emitting
C) of a star that was as bright as the full moon exploding into view 340,000 years ago and that it emitted
D) of a star as bright as the full moon, exploding into view 340,000 years ago and emitting
E) of a star as bright as the full moon that exploded into view 340,000 years ago and that emitted

The correct answer of this sentence is choice B where the uasge of the idiom "evidence that" is correct. This is so because all the other choices have some grammatical error.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
Shraddha


Hi Shraddha,

I have been an egmat student and I have learned in your videos that to + infinitive form is used to suggest an intent or purpose. But if that is the case, wouldn't the sentence mean that the intent of finding was to suggest... isn't it incorrect?
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2018, 13:52
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey Mainhoon,

Well, "evidence to suggest" is a better choice than "evidence that suggests," but I'd say the comma is the major issue.

As for Munda's question, no it wouldn't be quite as correct to say "the elephant has descended," this implies the action of descending, as in "The elephant has descended the stairs." But this meaning of "descended" is different. To "be descended" from something is a constant (like being "green" or "American"), and thus ought to be in the present tense, as in "Men are descended from apes." You wouldn't say "men have descended from apes," because it isn't a tense action, but a state of being.

Hope that makes sense!

-t


Hi TommyWallach,

You explanation helped make sense as to why E was correct. However, "is descended" sounds clunky, even if grammatically correct. Is "is descended" even used regularly in speech?

In the back of my mind as I was reading the prompt, I was thinking "is a descendant" was going to be a proper way to rewrite the section since it's common in speech. So is "is descended" something we're just going to have to memorize specifically for the GMAT?
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Dec 2018, 05:06
" to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved" is correct because it implies that the elephant is extant
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Dec 2018, 10:37
daagh wrote:
Go by this maxim, and the answer will pop up. A sentence, which has two arms, if uses - that - to introduce one arm, then it must use - that -to introduce the other arm also to balance the sentence. As per this norm, only E will fit in


I never knew this. Is this always the case on the official GMAT questions?
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Re: Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the el  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Dec 2018, 03:55
egmat wrote:
gmat4varun wrote:
BM wrote:
Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel.

(a) that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolved
(b) that has suggested the elephant descended from an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving
(c) suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolving
(d) to suggest that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolving
(e) to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved



Although we certainly don't hear it often, "is descended" is correct. For example:

We are descended from the chimpanzee.
He is a direct descendant of Charles the Great.

But I do agree that the phrase looks odd on paper.





Is it fine to write "Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggests" . My understanding says that it should be "That" and not "To" "Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests" . Please someone put some light on this .



Hello gmat4varun,

Thank you for the query. :-)

The correct official sentence uses the expression Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest. We know that the correct answers of official sentences are always correct. Hence, we should not doubt them. Rather, we should learn from them those correct usages we are not aware of.

See, there is no issue in the expression Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests. Undoubtedly, this expression conveys the intended meaning clearly. However, there is no issue with Australian embryologists have found evidence to suggest either.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha



e) to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved
why not .... that the elephant be descended from an ....? subjunctive requires bare infinitive form as I have read.
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