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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and

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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent.


(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent

(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably

(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent

(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably


Official Guide 12 Question

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Page: 42
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Verbal Question of The Day: Day 196: Sentence Correction


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https://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/26/business/women-are-close-to-being-majority-of-law-students.html

Some important obstacles still remain. Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar exams,the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not kept pace. In New York, for example, where women represent more than 41 percent of the associates at law firms, fewer than 14 percent of the partners are women, according to the National Association of Law Placement.

Originally posted by Nsentra on 28 Oct 2006, 19:17.
Last edited by hazelnut on 07 Nov 2018, 23:37, edited 2 times in total.
Renamed the topic and edited the question.
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jan 2018, 11:21
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Quote:
(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent

This one is a gift from the GMAT gods: “… the proportion of (blah blah)… HAVE not risen…”

Nope, that’s a classic subject-verb error. We can get rid of (A). Thank you for giving us something easy for once, GMAT!

Quote:
(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably

(B) has exactly the same subject-verb error as (A): “… the proportion… HAVE not risen…” So (B) is gone, too.

Isn’t this exciting?

Quote:
(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

Well, this works just fine: “the proportion… has not risen comparably.” Let’s keep (C).

Quote:
(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent

Well, there are two things that are different in (D) than in (C). One is that the word “comparably” is used in (C), but “to a comparable extent” appears in its place in (D). Honestly, I don’t know if this is a big deal. “Comparably” seems more succinct to me, but I’m not sure that “to a comparable extent” is necessarily WRONG. I certainly wouldn’t eliminate (D) based on that alone, even though I mildly prefer the shorter version in (C).

The other weird issue is the use of “yet” at the beginning of the underlined portion. So that gives us “Despite the increasing number of women…, yet the proportion of women judges…” That’s wrong: both “yet” and “despite” begin dependent clauses, so now the sentence just consists of two dependent clauses in a row. That’s not OK.

So (D) is out.

Quote:
(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

And (E) has exactly the same problem as (D): two consecutive dependent clauses does NOT give us a legitimate sentence.

So we can eliminate (E), and (C) is our answer.
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 25 May 2010, 21:32
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This is from OG12. OE is:

Agreement; Rhetorical construction

When a number of plural nouns appear in phrases between a singular subject and the verb, it can be easy to overlook the true subject of the verb. Here, judges, partners, firms, and women all occur between the singular subject, proportion, and the verb, which should also be singular, has risen. Concise expression is particularly important in a long construction; to a comparable extent may be more concisely expressed as comparably.

A Plural verb, have risen, does not agree with the singular subject, proportion.

B Have risen does not agree with proportion; here, women applies only to judges, not to partners at major law firms.

C Correct. In this sentence, has risen agrees with proportion, and comparably is more
concise than to a comparable extent. The modifying clause who are women follows
(1) judges and (2) partners at major law firms as closely as is possible given the content of the sentence; this positioning has the virtue of being clear in its meaning.

D The contrast has already been introduced by despite, so the addition of yet is illogical and ungrammatical; to a comparable extent is wordy.

E Despite introduces the contrast; adding yet is illogical and results in an ungrammatical construction.

The correct answer is C.
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New post 30 Jan 2011, 08:00
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The issue here is not the right answer but the outlook of GMAC. We thought that the grammar of the relative pronouns’ obedience to the 'noun - touch' rule is an important one, rather even an inexorable one. But in this issue, OG has made it clear that grammar is compromisable to context.

The question is now whether how far can we go by such a blatant flexibility of OG? The irony is that even this may change tomorrow. But that is GMAT for you, the big boss.
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Aug 2017, 07:22
But that should be the last principle, right? It doesn't take precedence over grammatical rules. I just feel that "who" is not modifying the correct nouns.
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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The grammar underlying the using of relative pronouns is that a relative pronoun can modify a slightly distant noun if it is not able to modify the word before it if logic doesn't permit and if the intervening phrase is essentially defining the eligible noun. (called a critical mission modifier by MGMAT)

Now let us look at choice C.

(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably ---
1. Logic does not permit the inanimate firms to be related to 'who'
2. 'at major law firms' is defining the noun 'partners' as the practitioners of law at these firms are called technically 'partners'
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Aug 2017, 14:39
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rekhabishop wrote:

But that should be the last principle, right? It doesn't take precedence over grammatical rules. I just feel that "who" is not modifying the correct nouns.



Hello rekhabishop,

Although you have already gotten quite few explanations for your doubt, I would just like to add my two cents. It might just help. :-)

It is true that who and other relative pronoun modifiers modify the preceding noun entity. However, it is not necessary that this preceding noun entity will always be a single or double word noun entity. These modifier can also modify the preceding noun phrase.

This is what we see happening in Choice A and C of this official sentence.

In these choices, the noun modifier who modifies not the preceding noun word law firms but the preceding noun phrase judges and partners at major law firms.

There are two reasons for such modification:

Firstly, who cannot be used to refer to inanimate object. So who logically refers to judges and partners.

Secondly, this phrase at major law firms cannot be placed anywhere else in the sentence without violating the intended meaning. Since at major law firms is meant to modify judges and partners, at major law firms has to be written close to this entity. This is the reason why who can jump over at major law firms to refer to judges and partners.

There are many official sentences in which noun modifiers modify a slightly far-away noun.

For more details, explanations, and official examples, please review our very famous article named Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun in the following link:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/noun-modifiers-can-modify-slightly-far-away-noun-135868.html


Hope this helps. :-)
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jan 2018, 11:48
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souvik101990 wrote:

Verbal Question of The Day: Day 196: Sentence Correction


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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent.

(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent

(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably

(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent

(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably


Every question of the day will be followed by an expert reply by GMATNinja in 12-15 hours. Stay tuned! Post your answers and explanations to earn kudos.


With (C) for the highlighted errors in the options...

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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jan 2018, 12:44
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent.

(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent -SV agreement

(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably -SV agreement

(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent -Despite ...... yet ... --> incorrect construction

(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably -[color=#ff0000]Despite ...... yet ... --> incorrect
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Jan 2018, 10:23
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+1 for option C. Clear explanation given in the post above. However , there is a point I would like to add.

There can be some confusion over pronoun who modifying law firms. Keep in mind that noun modifier (phrase following who) can modify slightly far away noun if the propositional phrase in between can't be placed anywhere else. Moreover in usage of pronouns be guided by logic. Just think - How can law firms be women ?? - Not possible. Hence who has to refer back to partners & judges. It is judges and partners who are women.

Pretty much all other options are a clear case of S-V agreement and use of despite-yet (wrong usage). Hence answer option C is correct.

Experts please correct my line of reasoning ...
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Jan 2018, 21:36
I understand that C is the best option among all but doesn't "who" in C refer incorrectly to firms rather than the proportion of women ? It is a strict rule when it comes to relative pronouns such as who, which etc.
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Jan 2018, 22:28
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piyush1995 wrote:
I understand that C is the best option among all but doesn't "who" in C refer incorrectly to firms rather than the proportion of women ? It is a strict rule when it comes to relative pronouns such as who, which etc.

Hi piyush1995, who just cannot refer to firms, because grammatically, who cannot refer to non-persons (and firm is a non-person).

In fact, who is not intended to refer to proportion either. who is actually referring to judges and partners.
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New post 15 Jan 2018, 15:49
Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations,
the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent.

(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent

(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably

(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent

(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

in D & E - Use of two contrast words are incorrect
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jan 2019, 08:50
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the question is about SV number agreement and logic.
splitting the choices into 3-2

the proportion is singular-- hence A,B are out

Coming to c,D,E ..
the first one starts with despite which is a dependent Clause.
the use of yet in the second sentence is not logical as it will become a dependent clause too..
D and E are out.
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 17 Jan 2019, 06:43
GMATNinja wrote:

Well, there are two things that are different in (D) than in (C). One is that the word “comparably” is used in (C), but “to a comparable extent” appears in its place in (D). Honestly, I don’t know if this is a big deal. “Comparably” seems more succinct to me, but I’m not sure that “to a comparable extent” is necessarily WRONG. I certainly wouldn’t eliminate (D) based on that alone, even though I mildly prefer the shorter version in (C).

The other weird issue is the use of “yet” at the beginning of the underlined portion. So that gives us “Despite the increasing number of women…, yet the proportion of women judges…” That’s wrong: both “yet” and “despite” begin dependent clauses, so now the sentence just consists of two dependent clauses in a row. That’s not OK.

So (D) is out.



Good day Sir Charles GMATNinja

I'm a little confused with "despite" and "yet"
As far as I know "comma + FANBOYS" starts new IC, why "yet" in (D) is DC?
I considered that "Despite" is firts dependent clause, then "comma+yet"-IC so structure of the sentence is fine...
To me (D) was more appetitive that (C) with "who" modifier... :roll:

Without "yet" (D) will be correct from meaning and grammar standpoint?
Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent

Could you please enlighten my doubts?
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Jan 2019, 04:35
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GKomoku wrote:
GMATNinja wrote:

Well, there are two things that are different in (D) than in (C). One is that the word “comparably” is used in (C), but “to a comparable extent” appears in its place in (D). Honestly, I don’t know if this is a big deal. “Comparably” seems more succinct to me, but I’m not sure that “to a comparable extent” is necessarily WRONG. I certainly wouldn’t eliminate (D) based on that alone, even though I mildly prefer the shorter version in (C).

The other weird issue is the use of “yet” at the beginning of the underlined portion. So that gives us “Despite the increasing number of women…, yet the proportion of women judges…” That’s wrong: both “yet” and “despite” begin dependent clauses, so now the sentence just consists of two dependent clauses in a row. That’s not OK.

So (D) is out.



Good day Sir Charles GMATNinja

I'm a little confused with "despite" and "yet"
As far as I know "comma + FANBOYS" starts new IC, why "yet" in (D) is DC?
I considered that "Despite" is firts dependent clause, then "comma+yet"-IC so structure of the sentence is fine...
To me (D) was more appetitive that (C) with "who" modifier... :roll:

Could you please enlighten my doubts?

Worry less about the terminology and more about the logic of the construction.

Consider a simple example: "Timmy screamed all night, yet his father still attended the whiny kid's birthday party the next day." Technically, "yet" is a conjunction creating the expectation of a contrast (in this case, between two clauses). This is fine.

I could also write, "Despite Timmy screaming all night, his father still attended the whiny kid's birthday party the next day." "Despite" is also a kind of conjunction that sets up an expectation of contrast, except that in this case, "Timmy screaming all night" is not itself a clause. No problems here, either.

But it would be wrong to write "Despite Timmy screaming all night, yet his father still attended the whiny kid's birthday party the next day", because "despite" and "yet" are both performing the same function. Logic and meaning are the important things here -- not the technical grammar terms.

Quote:
Without "yet" (D) will be correct from meaning and grammar standpoint?
Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent

This version fixes the major error. I'd still prefer "comparably" to "to a comparable extent" though I wouldn't say that the second phrase is technically wrong, and I doubt the difference would ever be the major decision point in an official question.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Feb 2019, 00:58
by default, -this means when there is a split between plural and singular,- collective nouns is singular. a group of, a proportion of+ countable noun is this pattern.

but this dose not mean collective nouns cannot take plural. in OA of some problems on gmat, plural verb can go with collective nouns.
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Oct 2019, 22:16
How would "who" be justified after the word firms? is who not referring to women? and how is option E been eliminated ? Please explain. Thank you
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Oct 2019, 01:14
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rachnak82 wrote:
How would "who" be justified after the word firms? is who not referring to women? and how is option E been eliminated ? Please explain. Thank you

Hi Rachna, you are right. who cannot modify firms, since who can only modify persons. So, who is not modifying firms, but judges and partners.

Easiest way to eliminate E is on the basis of redundancy: since we already have despite, we don't need yet.
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Oct 2019, 02:41
GMATNinja wrote:
Quote:
(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent

This one is a gift from the GMAT gods: “… the proportion of (blah blah)… HAVE not risen…”

Nope, that’s a classic subject-verb error. We can get rid of (A). Thank you for giving us something easy for once, GMAT!

Quote:
(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably

(B) has exactly the same subject-verb error as (A): “… the proportion… HAVE not risen…” So (B) is gone, too.

Isn’t this exciting?

Quote:
(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

Well, this works just fine: “the proportion… has not risen comparably.” Let’s keep (C).

Quote:
(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent

Well, there are two things that are different in (D) than in (C). One is that the word “comparably” is used in (C), but “to a comparable extent” appears in its place in (D). Honestly, I don’t know if this is a big deal. “Comparably” seems more succinct to me, but I’m not sure that “to a comparable extent” is necessarily WRONG. I certainly wouldn’t eliminate (D) based on that alone, even though I mildly prefer the shorter version in (C).

The other weird issue is the use of “yet” at the beginning of the underlined portion. So that gives us “Despite the increasing number of women…, yet the proportion of women judges…” That’s wrong: both “yet” and “despite” begin dependent clauses, so now the sentence just consists of two dependent clauses in a row. That’s not OK.

So (D) is out.

Quote:
(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

And (E) has exactly the same problem as (D): two consecutive dependent clauses does NOT give us a legitimate sentence.

So we can eliminate (E), and (C) is our answer.


Isn't C ambiguous in that it looks as if who are women modifies law firms.
Best could have been "at law firms. the proportion of blah blah who are women blah blah". Please guide.
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Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and   [#permalink] 12 Oct 2019, 02:41

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