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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 08 Jan 2018, 12:44
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent.

(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent -SV agreement

(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably -SV agreement

(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent -Despite ...... yet ... --> incorrect construction

(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably -[color=#ff0000]Despite ...... yet ... --> incorrect
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 09 Jan 2018, 10:23
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+1 for option C. Clear explanation given in the post above. However , there is a point I would like to add.

There can be some confusion over pronoun who modifying law firms. Keep in mind that noun modifier (phrase following who) can modify slightly far away noun if the propositional phrase in between can't be placed anywhere else. Moreover in usage of pronouns be guided by logic. Just think - How can law firms be women ?? - Not possible. Hence who has to refer back to partners & judges. It is judges and partners who are women.

Pretty much all other options are a clear case of S-V agreement and use of despite-yet (wrong usage). Hence answer option C is correct.

Experts please correct my line of reasoning ...
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 14 Jan 2018, 21:36
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I understand that C is the best option among all but doesn't "who" in C refer incorrectly to firms rather than the proportion of women ? It is a strict rule when it comes to relative pronouns such as who, which etc.
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 14 Jan 2018, 22:28
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piyush1995
I understand that C is the best option among all but doesn't "who" in C refer incorrectly to firms rather than the proportion of women ? It is a strict rule when it comes to relative pronouns such as who, which etc.
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Hi piyush1995, who just cannot refer to firms, because grammatically, who cannot refer to non-persons (and firm is a non-person).

In fact, who is not intended to refer to proportion either. who is actually referring to judges and partners.
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 15 Jan 2019, 08:50
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the question is about SV number agreement and logic.
splitting the choices into 3-2

the proportion is singular-- hence A,B are out

Coming to c,D,E ..
the first one starts with despite which is a dependent Clause.
the use of yet in the second sentence is not logical as it will become a dependent clause too..
D and E are out.
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 17 Jan 2019, 06:43
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Well, there are two things that are different in (D) than in (C). One is that the word “comparably” is used in (C), but “to a comparable extent” appears in its place in (D). Honestly, I don’t know if this is a big deal. “Comparably” seems more succinct to me, but I’m not sure that “to a comparable extent” is necessarily WRONG. I certainly wouldn’t eliminate (D) based on that alone, even though I mildly prefer the shorter version in (C).

The other weird issue is the use of “yet” at the beginning of the underlined portion. So that gives us “Despite the increasing number of women…, yet the proportion of women judges…” That’s wrong: both “yet” and “despite” begin dependent clauses, so now the sentence just consists of two dependent clauses in a row. That’s not OK.

So (D) is out.
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Good day Sir Charles GMATNinja

I'm a little confused with "despite" and "yet"
As far as I know "comma + FANBOYS" starts new IC, why "yet" in (D) is DC?
I considered that "Despite" is firts dependent clause, then "comma+yet"-IC so structure of the sentence is fine...
To me (D) was more appetitive that (C) with "who" modifier... :roll:

Without "yet" (D) will be correct from meaning and grammar standpoint?
Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent

Could you please enlighten my doubts?
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 20 Jan 2019, 04:35
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Well, there are two things that are different in (D) than in (C). One is that the word “comparably” is used in (C), but “to a comparable extent” appears in its place in (D). Honestly, I don’t know if this is a big deal. “Comparably” seems more succinct to me, but I’m not sure that “to a comparable extent” is necessarily WRONG. I certainly wouldn’t eliminate (D) based on that alone, even though I mildly prefer the shorter version in (C).

The other weird issue is the use of “yet” at the beginning of the underlined portion. So that gives us “Despite the increasing number of women…, yet the proportion of women judges…” That’s wrong: both “yet” and “despite” begin dependent clauses, so now the sentence just consists of two dependent clauses in a row. That’s not OK.

So (D) is out.


Good day Sir Charles GMATNinja

I'm a little confused with "despite" and "yet"
As far as I know "comma + FANBOYS" starts new IC, why "yet" in (D) is DC?
I considered that "Despite" is firts dependent clause, then "comma+yet"-IC so structure of the sentence is fine...
To me (D) was more appetitive that (C) with "who" modifier... :roll:

Could you please enlighten my doubts?
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Worry less about the terminology and more about the logic of the construction.

Consider a simple example: "Timmy screamed all night, yet his father still attended the whiny kid's birthday party the next day." Technically, "yet" is a conjunction creating the expectation of a contrast (in this case, between two clauses). This is fine.

I could also write, "Despite Timmy screaming all night, his father still attended the whiny kid's birthday party the next day." "Despite" is also a kind of conjunction that sets up an expectation of contrast, except that in this case, "Timmy screaming all night" is not itself a clause. No problems here, either.

But it would be wrong to write "Despite Timmy screaming all night, yet his father still attended the whiny kid's birthday party the next day", because "despite" and "yet" are both performing the same function. Logic and meaning are the important things here -- not the technical grammar terms.

Quote:
Without "yet" (D) will be correct from meaning and grammar standpoint?
Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent
Show more

This version fixes the major error. I'd still prefer "comparably" to "to a comparable extent" though I wouldn't say that the second phrase is technically wrong, and I doubt the difference would ever be the major decision point in an official question.

I hope that helps!
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 26 Jan 2019, 14:27
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How do you know that proportion is the subject and not women?
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and Updated on: 27 Jan 2019, 21:25
Originally posted by daagh on 27 Jan 2019, 09:36.
Last edited by daagh on 27 Jan 2019, 21:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Andi







andi

Where do you have a choice among the five, having women as the subject? Our job is to find the correct choice among the given five unless we are trying to create our own topics? I am afraid this approach is simply out of scope.

Now that this is an official question, are we going to say that we cannot answer this question, as there are no correct answers?
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 27 Jan 2019, 12:58
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Andi







andi

Where do you have a choice among the five, having women as the subject? Our job is to find the correct choice among the given five unless we are u trying to create our own topics? I am afraid this approach is simply out of scope.

Now that this is an official question, are we going to say that we cannot answer this question, as there are no correct answers?
Show more


Thank you for the response Daagh.

But Women is part of the underline and it's included in all of the possible answer choices:

Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent.


And if you ask yourself "who/what have not risen to a comparable extent" wouldn't the logical answer be the women?
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 27 Jan 2019, 21:45
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Andi
You may see that this is a clause starting with a modifier and followed by the subject of the main sentence, namely, the proportion. If women were the subject, then the clause should have started with the word "women". Just because 'women' is found somewhere in the underlined part, it won't be eligible to become the subject. There are so many other words also in the underlined part. Can they all contend to be the subjects? What is being compared is the previous proportion with the current proportion.

This is a fundamental tenet in sentence construction. However, let's keep it aside for a while and focus on this question. You are still not telling us as to which is your preferred choice as per your thinking.

If you feel you are correct, please feel free to cling to your views notwithstanding that others may not agree
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 08 Oct 2019, 22:16
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How would "who" be justified after the word firms? is who not referring to women? and how is option E been eliminated ? Please explain. Thank you
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 09 Oct 2019, 01:14
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rachnak82
How would "who" be justified after the word firms? is who not referring to women? and how is option E been eliminated ? Please explain. Thank you
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Hi Rachna, you are right. who cannot modify firms, since who can only modify persons. So, who is not modifying firms, but judges and partners.

Easiest way to eliminate E is on the basis of redundancy: since we already have despite, we don't need yet.
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 12 Oct 2019, 02:41
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(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent
This one is a gift from the GMAT gods: “… the proportion of (blah blah)… HAVE not risen…”

Nope, that’s a classic subject-verb error. We can get rid of (A). Thank you for giving us something easy for once, GMAT!

Quote:
(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably
(B) has exactly the same subject-verb error as (A): “… the proportion… HAVE not risen…” So (B) is gone, too.

Isn’t this exciting?

Quote:
(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably
Well, this works just fine: “the proportion… has not risen comparably.” Let’s keep (C).

Quote:
(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent
Well, there are two things that are different in (D) than in (C). One is that the word “comparably” is used in (C), but “to a comparable extent” appears in its place in (D). Honestly, I don’t know if this is a big deal. “Comparably” seems more succinct to me, but I’m not sure that “to a comparable extent” is necessarily WRONG. I certainly wouldn’t eliminate (D) based on that alone, even though I mildly prefer the shorter version in (C).

The other weird issue is the use of “yet” at the beginning of the underlined portion. So that gives us “Despite the increasing number of women…, yet the proportion of women judges…” That’s wrong: both “yet” and “despite” begin dependent clauses, so now the sentence just consists of two dependent clauses in a row. That’s not OK.

So (D) is out.

Quote:
(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably
And (E) has exactly the same problem as (D): two consecutive dependent clauses does NOT give us a legitimate sentence.

So we can eliminate (E), and (C) is our answer.
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Isn't C ambiguous in that it looks as if who are women modifies law firms.
Best could have been "at law firms. the proportion of blah blah who are women blah blah". Please guide.
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 12 Oct 2019, 23:20
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azhrhasan
Isn't C ambiguous in that it looks as if who are women modifies law firms.
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who cannot modify law firms, because who can only modify persons.
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 24 Oct 2019, 19:07
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Quote:
Isn't C ambiguous in that it looks as if who are women modifies law firms.
Best could have been "at law firms. the proportion of blah blah who are women blah blah". Please guide.
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You always want to eliminate concrete errors first. Ideally, you'd never consider pronoun ambiguity at all, but if you did, it would be as a last resort. In this particular question, we have some nice, juicy decision points.

First, there's the question of whether "yet" is correct. I can write, "Despite Tim's tendency to shower once a month, he often smells of vanilla and lavender." Or I can write, "Tim tends to shower once a month, yet he often smells of vanilla and lavender." But I can't write, "Despite Tim's tendency to shower once a month, yet he often smells of vanilla and lavender."

Put another way, I can introduce a contrasting modifier with "despite," or I can connect contrasting clauses with "yet," but I can't do both. Eliminate (D) and (E).

Next, there's choice between "have" and "has" in the second part of the sentence. The subject is "proportion," which is singular, so we want "has." That leaves us with (C). No need to waste brainpower on the usage of "who."

Also, bear in mind that "who" has to refer to people. If you look at the relevant clause, "the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women, the only element "who" could be describing is "judges and partners," so there's no real ambiguity here. (And again, even if there were, pronoun ambiguity alone is not a good reason for eliminating an answer choice.)

I hope that helps!
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 25 Jul 2020, 13:54
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Quote:
(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent
This one is a gift from the GMAT gods: “… the proportion of (blah blah)… HAVE not risen…”

Nope, that’s a classic subject-verb error. We can get rid of (A). Thank you for giving us something easy for once, GMAT!

Quote:
(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably
(B) has exactly the same subject-verb error as (A): “… the proportion… HAVE not risen…” So (B) is gone, too.

Isn’t this exciting?

Quote:
(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably
Well, this works just fine: “the proportion… has not risen comparably.” Let’s keep (C).

Quote:
(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent
Well, there are two things that are different in (D) than in (C). One is that the word “comparably” is used in (C), but “to a comparable extent” appears in its place in (D). Honestly, I don’t know if this is a big deal. “Comparably” seems more succinct to me, but I’m not sure that “to a comparable extent” is necessarily WRONG. I certainly wouldn’t eliminate (D) based on that alone, even though I mildly prefer the shorter version in (C).

The other weird issue is the use of “yet” at the beginning of the underlined portion. So that gives us “Despite the increasing number of women…, yet the proportion of women judges…” That’s wrong: both “yet” and “despite” begin dependent clauses, so now the sentence just consists of two dependent clauses in a row. That’s not OK.

So (D) is out.

Quote:
(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably
And (E) has exactly the same problem as (D): two consecutive dependent clauses does NOT give us a legitimate sentence.

So we can eliminate (E), and (C) is our answer.
Show more

Is the use of "who" correct in (C), which is just after firms? Or can it skip over to refer back to women judges? I though these who, which , where etc. are a bit strict when come to modifying, or they are only when separated by a comma?
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 25 Jul 2020, 20:00
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Hi Lakshya, you might want to refer to my post here.
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 26 Jul 2020, 04:54
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Hi Lakshya, you might want to refer to my post here.
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If "who" is set off by a comma, then only it acts as a modifier with almost with a touch rule?
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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and 26 Jul 2020, 05:00
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If "who" is set off by a comma, then only it acts as a modifier with almost with a touch rule?
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Hi Lakshya, comma or no comma, who cannot modify the non-person firms in either case.
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