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10 Dec 2008, 09:52
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pelihu
Okay, I need to ask about this. Caveat here - I'm not in banking and have no interest in doing it, but I do have several friends who went into i-banking out of undergrad (to all the big names), and to a man, each of them was miserable working precisely those hours. At the office until 10pm each night, if they went home at all... weekends, holidays, etc. I found that those who stuck with it sorta convinced themselves it was worth it, and started getting really excited when they were "only" working 60-70 hours that week or something like that.
Now, I get that the money is great. But what's the point of pulling down all those Gs if you don't get a chance to enjoy it? Do you *actually* enjoy slaving over models and deals and all of that until ungodly hours of the night, or is this all a means to some greater end?
Please don't misconstrue any of this as criticism - I just really, honestly do not understand it. I make 43k a year, but work 9-5 and get four weeks of paid vacation a year. I can't even conceive of working those kinds of hours unless I was POTUS or something.
10 Dec 2008, 14:31
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How about this, instead of working 9-5 and making 43k per year with your 4 weeks of vacation, you work one year and have the next five whole years for vacation. That would be the equivalent comparison of time & money with a first year associate from the last few years (things have changed obviously). Work one year, spend five years enjoying yourself, or volunteering for charity, or whatever. Work two years, take the next decade off.
Comments like "what's the point of making money if you can't enjoy it" are complete throwaways. They are trite sayings passed along by people who don't want to use their brains too much. Do people really not enjoy the money if they make a lot of it? Do people enjoy the money if they can afford a $1000 bottle of wine? How about a $100k car? Season tickets with great seats for your favorite sports team or theater? How about a vacation home on a beach or ski slope, whichever you like most? The opportunity to take your family and kids on an African Safari? The ability to take care of your aging parents? Private school for the kids? Golf membership? Yacht? RV? Home theater of your dreams? Financially secure retirement by age 40 or 45? Chance to clear out student loans in 3 years? Trophy wife (hehe)?
Obviously, people have different thresholds for how much money they would like to make and how much they are willing work for it. If you're a single person without a care in the world, money might not matter much to you. I've pointed out elsewhere (don't remember the thread) that I used to have a bunch of friends who waited tables so they could afford to surf and hang out on the beach while I worked to save enough money to pay for college. Beach front surf shacks on Malibu, parties all the time, unbelievable girls (or guys) hanging out all the time. A lot better than working 80 hours a week, yet, they're probably now on their way to being creepy old people hanging out at parties... But, considerations are different when you have to worry about more than just yourself for more than just today. What type of salary do you want to pull down if you have aging parents who need help? A sibling with a medical condition?
If working 9-5 makes you happy, then run with it. But there is a reason why the best and the brightest from business school (2/3 of most top schools) head to demanding professions like banking and consulting every year. Money, sure. Some people have $200-250k in debt by the time they finish business school and don't want it hanging over them for the next decade or two. But these are also the jobs that are the most challenging and offer the best chances for fast advancement. Most MBA recruiters are not enthusiastic about hiring people who put in the minimum possible effort; they like people with drive who never turn it off. Some people do enjoy the work. Almost everyone enjoys the money. Don't let some mindless saying tell you any differently.
Comments like "what's the point of making money if you can't enjoy it" are complete throwaways. They are trite sayings passed along by people who don't want to use their brains too much. Do people really not enjoy the money if they make a lot of it? Do people enjoy the money if they can afford a $1000 bottle of wine? How about a $100k car? Season tickets with great seats for your favorite sports team or theater? How about a vacation home on a beach or ski slope, whichever you like most? The opportunity to take your family and kids on an African Safari? The ability to take care of your aging parents? Private school for the kids? Golf membership? Yacht? RV? Home theater of your dreams? Financially secure retirement by age 40 or 45? Chance to clear out student loans in 3 years? Trophy wife (hehe)?
Obviously, people have different thresholds for how much money they would like to make and how much they are willing work for it. If you're a single person without a care in the world, money might not matter much to you. I've pointed out elsewhere (don't remember the thread) that I used to have a bunch of friends who waited tables so they could afford to surf and hang out on the beach while I worked to save enough money to pay for college. Beach front surf shacks on Malibu, parties all the time, unbelievable girls (or guys) hanging out all the time. A lot better than working 80 hours a week, yet, they're probably now on their way to being creepy old people hanging out at parties... But, considerations are different when you have to worry about more than just yourself for more than just today. What type of salary do you want to pull down if you have aging parents who need help? A sibling with a medical condition?
If working 9-5 makes you happy, then run with it. But there is a reason why the best and the brightest from business school (2/3 of most top schools) head to demanding professions like banking and consulting every year. Money, sure. Some people have $200-250k in debt by the time they finish business school and don't want it hanging over them for the next decade or two. But these are also the jobs that are the most challenging and offer the best chances for fast advancement. Most MBA recruiters are not enthusiastic about hiring people who put in the minimum possible effort; they like people with drive who never turn it off. Some people do enjoy the work. Almost everyone enjoys the money. Don't let some mindless saying tell you any differently.
10 Dec 2008, 14:41
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Bookmarks
Pelihu,
I really miss your regular posts! Well put once again. +1
Another thing to keep in mind, just like any other entry-level job at a big firm or company, people aren't really there because they have a passion for financial modeling and long hours. The bigger payoffs come when you hit Managing Director, or exit to a PE firm, or exit to a great job in Corporate Development at an F500. If you can't see this far into the future, and you are only concerned with hours and starting salaries (i.e. the short term) - banking is not for you.
I really miss your regular posts! Well put once again. +1
Another thing to keep in mind, just like any other entry-level job at a big firm or company, people aren't really there because they have a passion for financial modeling and long hours. The bigger payoffs come when you hit Managing Director, or exit to a PE firm, or exit to a great job in Corporate Development at an F500. If you can't see this far into the future, and you are only concerned with hours and starting salaries (i.e. the short term) - banking is not for you.
