Last visit was: 18 Nov 2025, 22:16 It is currently 18 Nov 2025, 22:16
Home
GMAT
Messages
Tests
Schools
Events
Rewards
Chat
My Profile
Close
GMAT Club Daily Prep
Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History
Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.
Go to My Error Log Learn more
Close
Request Expert Reply
Confirm Cancel
Back to Forum
Create Topic
   1   2   3 
User avatar
GMATGuruNY
User avatar
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Last visit: 18 Nov 2025
Posts: 1,344
Own Kudos:
3,795
 [1]
Given Kudos: 9
Schools:Dartmouth College
Expert
Expert reply
Posts: 1,344
Kudos: 3,795
 [1]
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 12 Dec 2021, 14:04
1
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
jabhatta2
Hi GMATGuruNY -

you mentioned in this post here -- Expletive pronouns (aka - placeholder pronouns or dummy pronouns) have some kind of referrant.

On the GMAT -- referrants are normally 'THAT clauses' as seen in your examples in the post

In this question - in the OA - D -- isn't there a placeholder pronoun ?

If so, what is the referrant to there in option D, you think ?
Show more

OA: there are still nearly 5 million farm households in Japan
Here, it could be argued that there = nearly 5 million farm households.
Conveyed meaning:
Nearly 5 million farm households are still in Japan.
User avatar
Will2020
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Last visit: 04 Mar 2022
Posts: 135
Own Kudos:
51
Given Kudos: 1,120
Location: Brazil
Concentration: Entrepreneurship, Strategy
Schools: Fuqua '24 (A)
GPA: 3.2
WE:Consulting (Healthcare/Pharmaceuticals)
Products:
My Reviews
Schools: Fuqua '24 (A)
Posts: 135
Kudos: 51
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 16 Jan 2022, 08:15
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
DmitryFarber
Since our only fixed portion is at the end of the sentence, I started by looking for a way to connect our underlined portion to "out of a total population of . . . " We basically need a ratio statement: "There are 5 million out of a total population of 116 million."

A and B give us a verb phrase--"are still in Japan." This makes "out of . . . 116" a modifier for that verb phrase, and this makes no sense.
C says that the households *are* 5 million. Households can't be a number. Also, since 5 million is a number of households and not people, the comparison that follows ends up rather jumbled. It almost sounds like the households are 5 million people.
E's trouble is a bit more subtle. What the official explanation is getting at is that we don't want to say "Despite X, still Y happens." We should say "Despite X, Y happens" or "X happens, but still Y happens."
Show more

Hi DmitryFarber! Can you elaborate a bit more on why A and B are wrong? I still didn't get it. Thank you! :)
User avatar
ExpertsGlobal5
User avatar
Experts' Global Representative
Joined: 10 Jul 2017
Last visit: 18 Nov 2025
Posts: 5,193
Own Kudos:
4,760
 [1]
Given Kudos: 43
Location: India
GMAT Date: 11-01-2019
Expert
Expert reply
Active GMAT Club Expert! Tag them with @ followed by their username for a faster response.
Posts: 5,193
Kudos: 4,760
 [1]
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 17 Jan 2022, 07:36
1
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Will2020
DmitryFarber
Since our only fixed portion is at the end of the sentence, I started by looking for a way to connect our underlined portion to "out of a total population of . . . " We basically need a ratio statement: "There are 5 million out of a total population of 116 million."

A and B give us a verb phrase--"are still in Japan." This makes "out of . . . 116" a modifier for that verb phrase, and this makes no sense.
C says that the households *are* 5 million. Households can't be a number. Also, since 5 million is a number of households and not people, the comparison that follows ends up rather jumbled. It almost sounds like the households are 5 million people.
E's trouble is a bit more subtle. What the official explanation is getting at is that we don't want to say "Despite X, still Y happens." We should say "Despite X, Y happens" or "X happens, but still Y happens."

Hi DmitryFarber! Can you elaborate a bit more on why A and B are wrong? I still didn't get it. Thank you! :)
Show more

Hello Will2020,

We hope this finds you well.

Having gone through the question and your query, we believe we can resolve your doubts.

Option A uses the unidiomatic construction "In despite of" rather than the correct, idiomatic construction "Despite" or "In spite of".

Both Option A and Option B uses the construction "nearly 5 million farm households are still in Japan", which does not quite convey the intended meaning - that Japan still has nearly 5 million farm households.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
Experts' Global Team
User avatar
GMATGuruNY
User avatar
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Last visit: 18 Nov 2025
Posts: 1,344
Own Kudos:
3,795
Given Kudos: 9
Schools:Dartmouth College
Expert
Expert reply
Posts: 1,344
Kudos: 3,795
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 18 Jan 2022, 15:27
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Will2020
why [are] A and B wrong?
Show more

A and B: Out of a total population of some 116 million people, nearly 5 million farm households are still in Japan.
Here, still precedes in Japan.
Conveyed meaning.
The households remain IN JAPAN.
They are not located OUTSIDE JAPAN.
This meaning is nonsensical.
Since the sentence refers to the total population OF JAPAN, it is not possible that the farm households under discussion are located OUTSIDE Japan.

OA: Out of a total population of some 116 million people, there are still nearly 5 million farm households.
Here, still precedes nearly 5 million.
Conveyed meaning:
The number of farm households remains NEARLY 5 MILLION.
The number is not LESS THAN OR EQUAL TO 4 MILLION.
This meaning makes sense.
User avatar
jabhatta2
User avatar
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Last visit: 21 Apr 2023
Posts: 1,294
Own Kudos:
317
Given Kudos: 188
Posts: 1,294
Kudos: 317
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into Updated on: 24 Jan 2022, 18:21
Originally posted by jabhatta2 on 24 Jan 2022, 17:54.
Last edited by jabhatta2 on 24 Jan 2022, 18:21, edited 1 time in total.
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Hi GMATGuruNY IanStewart

Question on the implication from the OA with respect to -- JAPAN not being close to "Despite the steady population flow from rural areas to urban clusters" ?

I thought, the location where the steady flow was taking place, Japan needs to come right after the comma (i thought)

Would you really say, this sentence is accurate ?

I thought it was wrong because John is placed FAR away fom 'Despite getting a 760'

Quote:
Analogy : Despite getting a 760, a Masters degree was not pursued by John
Show more

I thought instead I would have to convert above analogy into active voice instead

Active voice : (ii) Despite getting a 760, John did not pursue a Masters degree
User avatar
jabhatta2
User avatar
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Last visit: 21 Apr 2023
Posts: 1,294
Own Kudos:
317
Given Kudos: 188
Posts: 1,294
Kudos: 317
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 24 Jan 2022, 18:16
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
GMATGuruNY IanStewart --

^^ OR should my takeaway be

-- When intiial modifers are used with a clause in the active voice - the subject HAS to follow the comma
but
-- When intiial modifers are used with a clause in the passive voice - the subject CAN BE far away from the comma or the Subject can be dropped completely

Quote:

-- Passive voice : Despite getting a 760, a Masters degree was not pursued by John
-- Passive voice : Despite getting a 760, a Masters degree was not pursued by John
-- Active voice : Despite getting a 760, John did not pursue a Masters degree
Show more


All three of these are acceptable ?
User avatar
GMATGuruNY
User avatar
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Last visit: 18 Nov 2025
Posts: 1,344
Own Kudos:
3,795
 [2]
Given Kudos: 9
Schools:Dartmouth College
Expert
Expert reply
Posts: 1,344
Kudos: 3,795
 [2]
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 24 Jan 2022, 18:36
2
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
jabhatta2
Hi GMATGuruNY IanStewart

Question on the implication from the OA with respect to -- JAPAN not being close to "Despite the steady population flow from rural areas to urban clusters" ?

I thought, the location where the flow was taking place, the noun Japan needs to come right after the comma (i thought)

Would you really say, this sentence is accurate ?

I thought it was wrong because John is placed FAR away fom 'Despite getting a 760'

Quote:
Analogy : Despite getting a 760, a Masters degree was not pursued by John

I thought instead I would have to convert above analogy into active voice instead
Active voice : (ii) Despite getting a 760, John did not pursue a Masters degree
Show more

The sentence in red is not analogous.
Generally:
When an introductory phrase includes a VERBing without an agent, the agent for the VERBing should begin the main clause.
Despite getting a 760, a Master's degree was not pursued by John.
Here, the introductory phrase in red includes a VERBing without an agent (getting).
The main clause begins with a Master's Degree.
As a result, a Master's Degree seems to be the implied agent for getting, conveying that A MASTER'S DEGREE was GETTING a 760.
This meaning is nonsensical.

OA: Despite the steady population flow from rural areas to urban clusters, there are still nearly 5 million farm households in Japan.
Here, the introductory phrase in green does not include a VERBing, so the rule does not apply.
User avatar
jabhatta2
User avatar
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Last visit: 21 Apr 2023
Posts: 1,294
Own Kudos:
317
Given Kudos: 188
Posts: 1,294
Kudos: 317
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 24 Jan 2022, 19:13
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Hey GMATGuruNY -- but in this example too, i thought (i) is right and (ii) is wrong

In this case too - i dont see any Verbing or Verbed in the introductory modifier - but the subject of the noun HAS to follow oo

Is the 2nd sentence really okay ?

My general rule was -- whenver you see an introductory modifier -- make sure the subject is right after comma

Now - i am confused what the rule should be after seeing this problem :(


Quote:

(i) An expert in astro-physics, Steven Hawkins concluded xxxxxx
vs
(ii) An expert in astro-physics, xxxxx was concluded by Steven Hawkins
Show more
User avatar
GMATGuruNY
User avatar
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Last visit: 18 Nov 2025
Posts: 1,344
Own Kudos:
3,795
 [1]
Given Kudos: 9
Schools:Dartmouth College
Expert
Expert reply
Posts: 1,344
Kudos: 3,795
 [1]
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into Updated on: 25 Jan 2022, 04:59
Originally posted by GMATGuruNY on 24 Jan 2022, 19:47.
Last edited by GMATGuruNY on 25 Jan 2022, 04:59, edited 1 time in total.
1
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
jabhatta2
Hey GMATGuruNY -- but in this example too, i thought (i) is right and (ii) is wrong

In this case too - i dont see any Verbing or Verbed in the introductory modifier - but the subject of the noun HAS to follow oo

Is the 2nd sentence really okay ?

My general rule was -- whenver you see an introductory modifier -- make sure the subject is right after comma

Now - i am confused what the rule should be after seeing this problem :(


Quote:

(i) An expert in astro-physics, Steven Hawkins concluded xxxxxx
vs
(ii) An expert in astro-physics, xxxxx was concluded by Steven Hawkins
Show more

(ii) is flat-out wrong.

An appositive is a noun or noun phrase that explains or defines another noun or noun phrase.
Similar to the VERBing rule in my earlier post:
If a sentence begins with an appositive, the referent for the appositive must begin the main clause.
In (ii), an expert is intended to serve as an appositive for Stephen Hawking.
Conveyed meaning:
Stephen Hawking = an expert
For this reason, Stephen Hawking must begin the main clause, as in (i).

To generalize:
If an introductory modifier includes a word that requires a grammatical referent -- and the referent is not contained within the introductory modifier -- then the intended referent should begin the main clause.
SC7 in the OG12:
As its sales of computer products have surpassed those of measuring instruments, the company has become increasingly willing to compete.
Here, its requires a grammatical referent, and the referent is not contained within the introductory modifier.
For this reason, the intended referent -- the company -- begins the main clause.

OA: Despite the steady population flow from rural areas to urban clusters, there are still nearly 5 million farm households in Japan.
Here, nothing in the introductory green modifier requires a grammatical referent.
Thus, the main clause does not have to begin with a particular subject.
User avatar
jabhatta2
User avatar
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Last visit: 21 Apr 2023
Posts: 1,294
Own Kudos:
317
Given Kudos: 188
Posts: 1,294
Kudos: 317
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 25 Jan 2022, 08:48
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Thank you IanStewart GMATGuruNY - if i understand correctly

initial modifiers refer to some noun

Many constructions -- the noun being referred to is NOT PART OF the initial modiifer itself . In those cases, the subject has to follow the intiail modifier. Example -

Quote:

Despite losing WW1, Germany was considered a threat as early as 1937

Here Germany HAS to follow the initial modifer as the noun being referenced in the initial modifer is not PART of the initial modifier itself.
Show more


However, there are cases when the subject could be part of the initial modifier itself - in those cases - there is not need to repeat the subject

The original question and my analogies below -- there is no need to repeat 'Germany' after the initial modifier because the subect (Germany) is already part of the initial modifier.

Quote:

Despite Germany losing WW1, the world considered Germany a threat as early as 1937
Despite Germany losing WW1, Germany was considered a threat as early as 1937 by the world
Despite Germany losing WW1, as early as 1937 – the world considered Germany a threat
Despite Germany losing WW1, the world as early as 1937 considered Germany a threat
Show more

All of these are acceptable
User avatar
jabhatta2
User avatar
Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Last visit: 21 Apr 2023
Posts: 1,294
Own Kudos:
317
Given Kudos: 188
Posts: 1,294
Kudos: 317
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 04 Jan 2023, 15:12
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Hi GMATGuruNY - I have been trying to improve my "meaning based approach". Placement of modifiers can certainly affect meaning.

In fact, the placement of the modifier "still" was the reason you gave to eliminate (A) and (B) here

Question then - In (D) - why is the placement of the adverb "In Japan", not an issue for D ?

In (D) - "In Japan" is placed far away from the initial modifier -- (D) thus gives the false impression that the initial modifier MAY NOT BE TAKING PLACE IN JAPAN (But instead perhaps, the phenomena in the initial modifier is taking place in China or in America or worldwide)

Initial modifier : Despite the steady population flow from rural areas to urban clusters

I thus eliminated (D) for bad meaning
User avatar
GMATGuruNY
User avatar
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Last visit: 18 Nov 2025
Posts: 1,344
Own Kudos:
3,795
Given Kudos: 9
Schools:Dartmouth College
Expert
Expert reply
Posts: 1,344
Kudos: 3,795
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 05 Jan 2023, 05:42
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
jabhatta2
Hi GMATGuruNY - I have been trying to improve my "meaning based approach". Placement of modifiers can certainly affect meaning.

In fact, the placement of the modifier "still" was the reason you gave to eliminate (A) and (B) here

Question then - In (D) - why is the placement of the adverb "In Japan", not an issue for D ?

In (D) - "In Japan" is placed far away from the initial modifier -- (D) thus gives the false impression that the initial modifier MAY NOT BE TAKING PLACE IN JAPAN (But instead perhaps, the phenomena in the initial modifier is taking place in China or in America or worldwide)

Initial modifier : Despite the steady population flow from rural areas to urban clusters

I thus eliminated (D) for bad meaning
Show more

Generally, an introductory prepositional modifier serves as an adverb modifying the main verb in the following clause.
D: Despite the steady population flow from rural areas to urban clusters, there are still nearly 5 million farm households in Japan.
Here, the introductory prepositional modifier in blue serves to modify are (the main verb in the following clause).
Since are serves to express a state-of-being IN JAPAN -- and are is modified by the adverbial phrase in blue -- it is crystal clear that the population flow discussed in the blue phrase is also taking place IN JAPAN.
User avatar
sham995
User avatar
Joined: 29 May 2022
Last visit: 16 Apr 2023
Posts: 7
Given Kudos: 8
Posts: 7
Kudos: 0
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 26 Mar 2023, 05:07
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Are we not comparing number of household to the number of people? Is this comparison okay?

Posted from my mobile device
User avatar
EducationAisle
User avatar
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Last visit: 18 Nov 2025
Posts: 3,891
Own Kudos:
3,579
 [2]
Given Kudos: 159
Location: India
Schools: ISB
GPA: 3.31
Expert
Expert reply
Schools: ISB
Posts: 3,891
Kudos: 3,579
 [2]
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 26 Mar 2023, 06:57
2
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
sham995
Are we not comparing number of household to the number of people? Is this comparison okay?
Show more
I don't believe this is strictly a comparison sentence.

Secondly, all the five options seem to have a similar structure; so you shouldn't worry about this.
User avatar
TargetMBA007
User avatar
Joined: 22 Nov 2019
Last visit: 14 Nov 2025
Posts: 256
Own Kudos:
331
Given Kudos: 215
Schools: Stanford (S)
GPA: 4.0
Schools: Stanford (S)
Posts: 256
Kudos: 331
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into 20 May 2023, 05:13
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
gmatassassin88
billybealright
In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into urban clusters, nearly 5 million farm households are still in Japan out of a total population of some 116 million people.

(A) In despite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into urban clusters, nearly 5 million farm households are still in Japan

(B) In spite of the steady population flow out from rural areas into urban clusters, nearly 5 million farm households are still in Japan

(C) Despite the steady population flow from rural areas into urban clusters, Japan’s farm households are still nearly 5 million

(D) Despite the steady population flow from rural areas to urban clusters, there are still nearly 5 million farm households in Japan

(E) In Japan, despite the steady population flow out from rural areas into urban clusters, still there are nearly 5 million farm households


SC32561.01

Hello experts

GMATNinja
ChiranjeevSingh
GMATCoachBen
VeritasKarishma

I eliminated option on the basis of incorrect idioms, which I am unsure of.

1.From..into ( Apart from D every options uses this idiom )

2. Also 'Flow out' seems to be awkward.
Both reasons are not strong enough to evaluate answer choices.After going through the discussion, I could not understand why usage of phrase "still in Japan" is incorrect

Kindly help in clarifying errors.Thanks

Posted from my mobile device
Show more

The terms "to" and "into" are both prepositions, but they are used differently:
"To" is generally used to indicate movement towards a place, but it does not imply entering or penetrating that place. It's more about direction than destination.
For example: "I am moving to New York." (It doesn't specify whether I'm entering New York or just moving in its direction.)

"Into", on the other hand, indicates movement towards a place with the implication of entering or becoming a part of that place. It's more about destination and penetration than just direction.
For example: "I walked into the room." (It indicates that I entered the room, not just moved towards it.)

In this context, "to" is correct because it's referring to a general shift in population from rural areas towards urban clusters. The term "into" would be incorrect because it suggests the population is not just moving towards, but integrating into the urban clusters, which isn't specified in the original sentence.
Moreover, "into" would be more appropriate if the sentence specified a particular location or building (e.g., "He walked into the house.") rather than a broad category of locations (like "urban clusters").
   1   2   3 
Moderators:
GMATNinja
GMAT Club Verbal Expert
7445 posts
GMATNinjaTwo
GMAT Club Verbal Expert
234 posts
miag
188 posts