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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
+1 to you..Zarrolou...
Great explanation.

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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
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Consider kudos if post helps!!!

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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
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I am curious about the verb tense in Choice A:
"Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid. "

"Invented" here is a past tense or a present perfect? Does "Have" apply to "invented" as well?

There is this problem in Gmatprep where "have" is applied to "seen" as well:
"Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and seen..."

Thank you!
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
Archit143 wrote:
I have a doubt in answer choice A...From what i have learned; we cannot use present perfect tense with a time reference, unless since and within are used.
So how can we use here in this context.

Last year, Archit visited Europe
Last year, Archit has visited Europe.

Which one is correct and why?

Consider kudos if my post helps!!!

Archit


Last year, Archit visited Europe is the correct one, as it is a specific point in time and so the past tense is the correct choice

has visited indicates continuing action, which is illogical in this particular example.
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
Zarrolou wrote:
Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid.

(A) banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid
CORRECT: "have raised" correctly expresses an action that started in the past and continues in the present(or has an effect in the present). "and" connects two parallel actions by the banks that are expresses in the same way, keeping the parallen structure
The sentence is clear
(B) banks are systematically raising their old fees and inventing new ones that become harder and harder for consumers to avoid.
Over the past few years, banks are (...) raising and inventing; is is a wrong usage of the ING form as verb. (the correct verb tense is present perfect: refer to A)
(C) banks systematically raising and inventing new ones make them harder and harder for consumers to avoid
The ING form requires "to be", if used as a verb (like in this case) : "are raising". However the verb tense is wrong (refer to A)
(D) as banks systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones, avoiding them becomes harder and harder for consumers
My main point to eliminate D is "avoiding". As an "COMMA + ING" it modifies the preceding clause.
When you find a construct like this keep in mind this rule: ", + ING" refers to the preceding clause, it generally expresses a consequence of the previous action or adds information/expalain it, and must "make sense" with the previous subject.
"banks raised (...) avoiding " is wrong
(E) as banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones, it is becoming harder and harder for consumers to avoid them.
What does them refer to? banks or fees? Not clear

Archit143 wrote:
Last year, Archit visited Europe
Last year, Archit has visited Europe.

Which one is correct and why?


The correct usage of present perfect is
"The present perfect simple expresses an action that is still going on or that stopped recently, but has an influence on the present."

In this case the correct option is the first one.

Keep in mind also that when you specify a time ("last year") you CANNOT use present perfect.
"over the past few years" is not a specified time, and you can use the present perfect with expressions like :never, many times,...

Hope it's clear, let me know


Hi Team,
I have a very simple doubt.Please help me to understand.

(A) banks [b]have
systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid

Here "That" are harder is referring to only new ones or both old fees and new ones?
(My question is as per the rule the That refer to close noun)..Please help me..[/b]
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
sanjeebpanda wrote:
Zarrolou wrote:
Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid.

(A) banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid
CORRECT: "have raised" correctly expresses an action that started in the past and continues in the present(or has an effect in the present). "and" connects two parallel actions by the banks that are expresses in the same way, keeping the parallen structure
The sentence is clear
(B) banks are systematically raising their old fees and inventing new ones that become harder and harder for consumers to avoid.
Over the past few years, banks are (...) raising and inventing; is is a wrong usage of the ING form as verb. (the correct verb tense is present perfect: refer to A)
(C) banks systematically raising and inventing new ones make them harder and harder for consumers to avoid
The ING form requires "to be", if used as a verb (like in this case) : "are raising". However the verb tense is wrong (refer to A)
(D) as banks systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones, avoiding them becomes harder and harder for consumers
My main point to eliminate D is "avoiding". As an "COMMA + ING" it modifies the preceding clause.
When you find a construct like this keep in mind this rule: ", + ING" refers to the preceding clause, it generally expresses a consequence of the previous action or adds information/expalain it, and must "make sense" with the previous subject.
"banks raised (...) avoiding " is wrong
(E) as banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones, it is becoming harder and harder for consumers to avoid them.
What does them refer to? banks or fees? Not clear

Archit143 wrote:
Last year, Archit visited Europe
Last year, Archit has visited Europe.

Which one is correct and why?


The correct usage of present perfect is
"The present perfect simple expresses an action that is still going on or that stopped recently, but has an influence on the present."

In this case the correct option is the first one.

Keep in mind also that when you specify a time ("last year") you CANNOT use present perfect.
"over the past few years" is not a specified time, and you can use the present perfect with expressions like :never, many times,...

Hope it's clear, let me know


Hi Team,
I have a very simple doubt.Please help me to understand.

(A) banks [b]have
systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid

Here "That" are harder is referring to only new ones or both old fees and new ones?
(My question is as per the rule the That refer to close noun)..Please help me..[/b]


IMHO, it refers to new ones only, which are described as "harder and harder to avoid".
IMHO, it refers only to the new fes
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
Archit143 wrote:
Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid.

(A) banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid

(B) banks are systematically raising their old fees and inventing new ones that become harder and harder for consumers to avoid.

(C) banks systematically raising and inventing new ones make them harder and harder for consumers to avoid

(D) as banks systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones, avoiding them becomes harder and harder for consumers

(E) as banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones, it is becoming harder and harder for consumers to avoid them.

OA will be updated soon....

Consider kudos if my post helps!!!

Archit


Explanation - If one understands the actual meaning it becomes easier to pick the correct answer.
The sentence says that banks raised their old fees and and invented new harder one that in turn harder for customers to avoid. Also since the bank is doing this over a past year we need a present perfect or continuous sentence structure.
Simply go by the intended meaning and you will be able to eliminate options B, C, D, E.
Option though uses the correct sentence structure but the meaning is wrong.
Option A remains. Hence correct.
Hope that helps.
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
[quote="Archit143"]Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid.

(A) banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid

(B) banks are systematically raising their old fees and inventing new ones that become harder and harder for consumers to avoid.

(C) banks systematically raising and inventing new ones make them harder and harder for consumers to avoid

(D) as banks systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones, avoiding them becomes harder and harder for consumers

(E) as banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones, it is becoming harder and harder for consumers to avoid them.

this is beautiful question from official source.
simple tense is used to show an situation which exist indefinitely, a timeless fact or a condition or habit. . this tense is different from present perfect. for more on the difference, we have to review grammar books. the difference is not so hard that we can not learn.
in b, "over past few years" refer to "are raising" . this reference is not so as logic as the reference in A
in c, "over... years" refers to "make". this is not logic
in d, "over... years" refer to "becomes". this is not logic
in d, "Over ... years" refers to "is becomming". this is not logic.

another point is pronoun. "them" in c,d, and e, is considered ambiguous and even is considered refering to both old fee and new fees. in either case, "them " is incorrect.
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
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To choose from A and B, I would prefer to choose A as the meaning of the sentence conveys that something is happening from the past and is still continuing. So, present perfect tense makes sense here."have" denotes action started in the past and is still continuing. Hence, A is the correct option as per meaning.
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
Option A.

Banks have raised their fees in the past - action completed.

and invented new ones -- "that" refers to the new ones (fees) which are hard to avoid.
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid.

(A) banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid

(B) banks are systematically raising their old fees and inventing new ones that become harder and harder for consumers to avoid.

(C) banks systematically raising and inventing new ones make them harder and harder for consumers to avoid

(D) as banks systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones, avoiding them becomes harder and harder for consumers

(E) as banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones, it is becoming harder and harder for consumers to avoid them.

Because stimulus says "over the past few years", "present perfect" tense should come. Only option A and E have "present perfect".
A is better than E.
A clearly conveys meaning.
E says "it is becoming harder and harder for consumers to avoid them." What does "them" refer to..old fees or new fees.
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
Archit143 wrote:
Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid.

(D) as banks systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones, avoiding them becomes harder and harder for consumers



One more way to eliminate option D is that the doer of "avoiding...." can't be "banks". As per rule the doer of modified clause and verb-ing modifier should be same.

thanks
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
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Quote:
Banks have systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid

I think there is a wrong impression that the relative pronoun 'that' in the above case refers to the nearest noun 'new ones' . No. It refers to both the items namely old fees and new ones. Logically also one may see that both elements are harder to avoid.

If anyone wants the relative pronoun to refer to only the new ones, then the sentence should be re-phrased as

"Banks have systematically invented new ones that are harder and harder for consumers to avoid and raised their old fees."
In this case, the phrase 'raised their old fees' cannot refer to "that are harder and harder to avoid."
The official proof of this is there in the following question.

Published in Harlem, the owner and editor of the Messenger were two young journalists, Chandler Owen and A. Philip Randolph, who would later make his reputation as a labor leader.

(A) Published in Harlem, the owner and editor of the Messenger were two young journalists, Chandler Owen and A. Philip Randolph, who would later make his reputation as a labor leader.

(B) Published in Harlem, two young journalists, Chandler Owen and A. Philip Randolph, who would later make his reputation as a labor leader, were the owner and editor of the Messenger.

(C) Published in Harlem, the Messenger was owned and edited by two young journalists, A. Philip Randolph, who would later make his reputation as a labor leader, and Chandler Owen.

(D) The Messenger was owned and edited by two young journalists, Chandler Owen and A. Philip Randolph, who would later make his reputation as a labor leader, and published in Harlem.

(E) The owner and editor being two young journalists, Chandler Owen and A. Philip Randolph, who would later make his reputation as a labor leader, the Messenger was published in Harlem.

Ans: C.

In the above case, it was only Philip who became a labor leader. So that part refers to only Philip, who has been separated from the compound object and represented individually in the correct choice.

There are more examples of this style in the OG. Those who want more proof may please search OG materials.
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
daagh sir - how do you find which word/noun do the relative pronouns "That and Which" refer?

Usually they refer to the preceding noun but is there a set way/rule to identify this?

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To start with, it is always said that the relative pronouns refer to the noun just before. However, a more refined way of saying this is that they modify the most appropriate or sensible nearby noun.

Let us say; I have two sons and two daughters who are good at singing and dancing. However, there is no way to say that who are good at singing and who are good at dancing. Therefore, the sensible meaning here is to say that all of them are good at singing as well as dancing.

However, if the girls are good at dancing and if the boys are good at singing, your intended meaning goes awry.
Then you have to say now-- I have two daughters who are good at dancing and two sons who are good at singing.

In the banks' case, why would we think that the old ones remain as they were even after the raising?
More relevantly, the custom is that if your word has to modify something exclusively, then it should be attached to what it wants to.

Originally posted by daagh on 04 Nov 2018, 01:57.
Last edited by daagh on 05 Jan 2019, 06:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
I have a doubt regarding option D:

as banks systematically raised their old fees and invented new ones, avoiding them becomes harder and harder for consumers

Answer given by Zarrolou eliminates D option by citing wrong usage of participle and this reason has confused me a bit.

I believe "avoiding" is acting as a gerund here and not a participle so this option is wrong mainly because of the present tense verb "becomes" and also them is ambiguous.

Am I right? Can anyone help me out here?

Thanks
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Re: Over the past few years, banks have systematically raised their old [#permalink]
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adiyo
You are correct; 'Avoiding" indeed acts as a gerund in this case.
One another problem with D is that it uses 'raised' rather than "have raised". Plus as you feel, 'has become' would have been better than 'becomes' Third one, of course, is the differential reference of 'their' to refer to the banks and 'them' to refer to the fees and the new ones.
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