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555-605 (Medium)|   Idioms/Diction/Redundancy|   Parallelism|   Verb Tense/Form|                        
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 11 Apr 2022, 22:21
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dcoolguy

In D, many people are saying "would become" is wrong?
How? beacuse it could be a case that representatives were thinking of a hypothetical case? makes sense to me!
we use would in past timeline to indicate a hypothetical case
How would is wrong here?
Show more
Am reasonably sure that the "as clause" can never had a would or a will.

As internet becomes cheap, more people will go online.
-Correct.

As internet will/would become cheap, more people will go online.
-Incorrect.

Incidentally, same is true for conditional constructs. The if clause of the conditional construct will never have a would / will.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses this aspect of conditional constructs. Have attached the corresponding section of the book, for your reference.
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 11 Apr 2022, 23:55
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Can someone please explain how the usage of would is incorrect in option D?
Hi Vaishali2004,

This sentence tells us what the representatives expected (past) as something happened (also past). We don't need would as the past of will here. For example:

They expect piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections become more widely available.
We should look at this as a process.

If we take the sentence above and shift it into the past, we get:
They expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available.
Show more


Then when do we use "would" in past? or it completly wrong?
i thought would is used when we about future in past

please explain when can and when cannot we use "would" in past?
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 12 Apr 2022, 05:45
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Vaishali2004
Can someone please explain how the usage of would is incorrect in option D?
Hi Vaishali2004,

This sentence tells us what the representatives expected (past) as something happened (also past). We don't need would as the past of will here. For example:

They expect piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections become more widely available.
We should look at this as a process.

If we take the sentence above and shift it into the past, we get:
They expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available.


Then when do we use "would" in past? or it completly wrong?
i thought would is used when we about future in past

please explain when can and when cannot we use "would" in past?
Show more

Hello dcoolguy,

We hope this finds you well.

To provide a bit of clarity here, the "would + simple present tense verb ("become" in Option D)" construction is used to refer to habitual actions in the past; as the action of high-speed Internet connections becoming more widely available is NOT habitual, the simple past tense is needed here.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 07 May 2022, 05:40
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dcoolguy
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Vaishali2004
Can someone please explain how the usage of would is incorrect in option D?
Hi Vaishali2004,

This sentence tells us what the representatives expected (past) as something happened (also past). We don't need would as the past of will here. For example:

They expect piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections become more widely available.
We should look at this as a process.

If we take the sentence above and shift it into the past, we get:
They expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available.


Then when do we use "would" in past? or it completly wrong?
i thought would is used when we about future in past

please explain when can and when cannot we use "would" in past?
Show more
Here are some examples using "would", either in the past or paired with a past-tense verb:

  • "If Tim had a house with a big backyard, he would have at least five dogs." - Here, the "would + verb" is paired with a past tense verb ("had") to express a counterfactual situation in the present (Tim doesn't actually have a house with a big backyard, in this case).
  • "If he had known it was going to rain, Tim would have brought an umbrella." - Here, we're expressing a counterfactual situation in the past and the hypothetical outcome in the past.
  • "Tim would always get a stomach ache after eating hotpot." - This is a habitual action in the past, and not a counterfactual at all. I don't recall ever seeing this construct on the GMAT, but maybe it's imbedded in a question or two somewhere. It's definitely not a significant part of the exam, though.

But I wouldn't drive yourself nuts trying to memorize a list of cases in which "would" is acceptable or unacceptable. It would be nice if this was a grammar test and we could simply memorize a clean list of rules, but GMAT SC is largely about meaning, and connecting structure to context. So instead of trying to refine an ever-growing list of rules, try to think really hard about meaning every time -- ask yourself, "What does the verb tense imply in THIS context, and does that make any sense?"

In other words, if you're overly focused on grammar mechanics, you'll likely overlook the meaning issues that really matter.

For more on GMAT verb tenses, check out this crusty old video.

I hope that helps!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that Updated on: 26 Jun 2022, 02:51
Originally posted by thangvietnam on 08 May 2022, 03:02.
Last edited by thangvietnam on 26 Jun 2022, 02:51, edited 1 time in total.
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regarding "that " problem.

it is hard to know that the second "that" is required or not. in the test room, we have a few second to solve this problem and if we can not solve, look for other error.

tense error of "expect" can be seen easily. "with increase" is clearly an error. "as.... would" in choice d is also wrong. so, we are confident to realize these errors .
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 08 May 2022, 04:46
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Can you please brief why the use of would is wrong in D ?
I got the intuition that they expect ..... as the high-speed Internet connections will become more widely available
But my intuition is wrong since E don't have would so can you please tell where am I missing
This sentence tells us what the representatives expected (past) as something happened (also past). For example:

They expect piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections become more widely available.
We should look at this as a process.

If we take the sentence above and shift it into the past, we get:
They expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available.
Show more

Hi,
whats the meaning of 'as' here in this question?
Is it giving a reason or implying "at the same time" in E? both make sense.

also why A is exactly wrong? piracy to increase with internet connections, what connection, connections that become widely available. make sense.
also because its the original choice, we can't doubt the meaning unless its completly illogical.
So, with vs As, what exactly is the difference in meaning wise?
Thanks
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 08 May 2022, 05:17
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DmitryFarber AjiteshArun
Can you please brief why the use of would is wrong in D ?
I got the intuition that they expect ..... as the high-speed Internet connections will become more widely available
But my intuition is wrong since E don't have would so can you please tell where am I missing
This sentence tells us what the representatives expected (past) as something happened (also past). For example:

They expect piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections become more widely available.
We should look at this as a process.

If we take the sentence above and shift it into the past, we get:
They expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available.

Hi,
whats the meaning of 'as' here in this question?
Is it giving a reason or implying "at the same time" in E? both make sense.

also why A is exactly wrong? piracy to increase with internet connections, what connection, connections that become widely available. make sense.
also because its the original choice, we can't doubt the meaning unless its completly illogical.
So, with vs As, what exactly is the difference in meaning wise?
Thanks
Show more

Hello dcoolguy,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, here "as" implies "at the same time", but it also carries a subtle implication of cause and effect.

For example, "His health got worse as he got older." - this sentence both coveys that "His" health deteriorated alongside the action of getting older and that "his" getting older was the cause of the health getting worse.

Further, Option A alters the meaning of the sentence through the phrase "with high-speed Internet connections that become"; the construction of this phrase incorrectly implies that motion picture industry representatives expected piracy to increase alongside the specific high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available; the intended meaning is that motion picture industry representatives expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections, in general, became more widely available. Further, Option A fails to maintain parallelism between "that there were...available online" and "expected piracy to increase...more widely available"; please remember, any elements linked by a conjunction ("and" in this sentence) must be parallel.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 19 May 2022, 23:47
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Hi!

If we state the sentence as if we were in the past, option D and E would be:

D:
Motion picture industry representatives SAY that there ARE about a million copies of Hollywood movies available online, and that they EXPECT the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections WILL BECOME more widely available
E:
Motion picture industry representatives SAY that there ARE about a million copies of Hollywood movies available online, and that they EXPECT piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections BECOME more widely available

As mentioned in another exercise, we can understand WOULD as the past form of WILL. In this case, why wouldn't D be the correct answer?

Greetings,
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 20 May 2022, 04:32
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Hi!

If we state the sentence as if we were in the past, option D and E would be:

D:
Motion picture industry representatives SAY that there ARE about a million copies of Hollywood movies available online, and that they EXPECT the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections WILL BECOME more widely available
E:
Motion picture industry representatives SAY that there ARE about a million copies of Hollywood movies available online, and that they EXPECT piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections BECOME more widely available

As mentioned in another exercise, we can understand WOULD as the past form of WILL. In this case, why wouldn't D be the correct answer?

Greetings,
Kevin
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Hello kevsaf95,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, Option D incorrectly uses the "would + simple present tense verb ("become" in this case)" construction to refer to an event that concluded in the past; please remember, the simple past tense is used to refer to events that concluded in the past, and the "would + simple present tense verb" construction is used to refer to hypothetical future actions and habitual actions in the past.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 20 May 2022, 05:12
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Hi!

If we state the sentence as if we were in the past, option D and E would be:

D:
Motion picture industry representatives SAY that there ARE about a million copies of Hollywood movies available online, and that they EXPECT the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections WILL BECOME more widely available
E:
Motion picture industry representatives SAY that there ARE about a million copies of Hollywood movies available online, and that they EXPECT piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections BECOME more widely available

As mentioned in another exercise, we can understand WOULD as the past form of WILL. In this case, why wouldn't D be the correct answer?

Greetings,
Kevin
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D will still be incorrect.

As mentioned in this post, would/will is not a permissible construct in the as clause.
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 15 Jun 2022, 11:41
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Hi MartyTargetTestPrep, GMATNinja, and egmat, can you please share your views on if the present tense verb 'become' an issue too in choice A?

Thank you!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 15 Jun 2022, 18:00
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Hi ... can you please share your views on if the present tense verb 'become' an issue too in choice A?

Thank you!
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The use of the present tense "become" could be OK in (A). After all, the following sentence makes sense since high-speed internet connections are still becoming more widely available.

In 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that they expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections become more widely available.

So, the best way to eliminate (A) is by noticing the meaning issues having to with the use of "with" and the use of the restrictive relative clause "that become more widely available," which are discussed in previous posts.
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 17 Jun 2022, 06:09
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Hi GMATNinja GraceSCKao avigutman - for the purposes of elimination between (D) and (E) specifically - many experts (Manhattan Solution- at the botttom of the post | expert 2) are suggesting that there is a difference in meaning between these 2 core sentences


Quote:

(option D) industry representatives expected the increase of piracy
vs
(option E) industry representatives expected piracy to increase
Show more


Could you perhaps elaborate what is the difference ? isn't this too subtle for the GMAT ?

Both sentences imply the same thing to me

Both sentences are in the past tense.

In both cases - the "increase of piracy" and "piracy to increase" seem to me at-least as events in the past tense and events that occur AFTER the "expectation" was made in the past tense
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 20 Jun 2022, 02:17
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Hi GMATNinja GraceSCKao avigutman - for the purposes of elimination between (D) and (E) specifically - many experts (Manhattan Solution- at the botttom of the post | expert 2) are suggesting that there is a difference in meaning between these 2 core sentences


Quote:

(option D) industry representatives expected the increase of piracy
vs
(option E) industry representatives expected piracy to increase


Could you perhaps elaborate what is the difference ? isn't this too subtle for the GMAT ?

Both sentences imply the same thing to me

Both sentences are in the past tense.

In both cases - the "increase of piracy" and "piracy to increase" seem to me at-least as events in the past tense and events that occur AFTER the "expectation" was made in the past tense
Show more

Hi jabhatta2

In my personal opinion, I do not think there is a meaning difference in the two phrasing, but maybe there is a subtle difference that I cannot tell. I cannot remember any official question that tests on the split ("expect sth to change" vs "expect the change in something"), but since I am not an expert and I have not reviewed all released official questions, I cannot be certain. It might be safer to listen to an expert's comment. :)

Though labeled with a "medium-difficulty" tag, it is a good question. I also think that the hard part is to choose between options (D) and (E). Some experts use the preposition "of" to eliminate the option (D), and some use verb tense. For your reference.
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 20 Jun 2022, 04:19
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Hi GMATNinja GraceSCKao avigutman - for the purposes of elimination between (D) and (E) specifically - many experts (Manhattan Solution- at the botttom of the post | expert 2) are suggesting that there is a difference in meaning between these 2 core sentences


Quote:

(option D) industry representatives expected the increase of piracy
vs
(option E) industry representatives expected piracy to increase


Could you perhaps elaborate what is the difference ? isn't this too subtle for the GMAT ?

Both sentences imply the same thing to me

Both sentences are in the past tense.

In both cases - the "increase of piracy" and "piracy to increase" seem to me at-least as events in the past tense and events that occur AFTER the "expectation" was made in the past tense
Show more

Hello jabhatta2,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, your reasoning is correct; there is no difference in meaning between these phrases.

The error in Option D is that it incorrectly uses the "would + simple present tense verb" construction to refer to an event that concluded in the past; please remember, the simple past tense is used to refer to events that concluded in the past, and the "would + simple present tense verb" construction is used to refer to hypothetical future actions and habitual actions in the past.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 21 Jun 2022, 05:56
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Hi, I'm just flagging a couple of errors in this explanation. I might not have worried about it normally, but I noticed this post was tagged the most helpful expert reply, so I thought it would be important to note them in case anyone is misled.

The eliminations for A and D are misleading I think.

A: Present tense could be appropriate in the relative clause. In this case it isn't logical, but in another sentence, eliminating just because "it's best to keep all the verbs in some form of past tense" may lead someone to select an incorrect answer. The relative clause is only describing the noun phrase "high-speed Internet connections". As an imperfect example, if the clause had've been something like: '... expected piracy to increase as the number of high-speed Internet connections that enable rapid download increased', that could work.

D: "Become" is not past tense in this answer choice. The conjugated verb is "would", which IS past tense (future past ). "Become" is unconjugated in this answer choice. So this is not using a present tense word to describe a past event, it is using future past tense to describe the prediction of industry representatives made in the past.

I hope that helps to avoid any misunderstandings!

EMPOWERgmatVerbal
Hello Everyone!

This is a great example of a GMAT question that focuses on consistent verb tense! Let's start by looking at the question carefully, and identify any major differences between the options by highlighting them in orange:

At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that there were about a million copies of Hollywood movies available online and expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available.

(A) online and expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available
(B) online and expect the increase of piracy with the wider availability of high-speed Internet connections
(C) online, and they expect more piracy to increase with the wider availability of high-speed Internet connections
(D) online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available
(E) online, and that they expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available

Since we know that this question focuses mainly on verb consistency, here are a couple places we can focus on:

1. expected / expect
2. became available / become available / the wider availability of

To begin, we need to determine when these events take place: in the past, present, or future? Let's look at the entire sentence for clues:

At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that there were about a million copies of Hollywood movies available online and expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available.

This takes place in 2001, which is clearly in the past! So, let's make sure all the verbs in each option reflect that:

(A) online and expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available

This is INCORRECT because it uses the present tense "become" instead of the past tense "became." Since this all takes place in the past, it's best to keep all the verbs in some form of past tense!

(B) online and expect the increase of piracy with the wider availability of high-speed Internet connections

This is INCORRECT because it uses the present tense "expect" for an event that took place in 2001, which is clearly in the past and requires past tense verbs to match!

(C) online, and they expect more piracy to increase with the wider availability of high-speed Internet connections

Again, this is INCORRECT because it uses the present tense "expect" to describe a past event!

(D) online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available

This is INCORRECT because it uses the present tense "become" to describe a past event.

(E) online, and that they expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available

This is CORRECT! It uses past tense verbs consistently throughout the sentence to indicate that everything in the sentence occurred in the past!


There you have it - option E is the best choice because it uses consistent verb tenses!


Don't study for the GMAT. Train for it.
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 21 Jun 2022, 06:15
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Hi, FYI, "become" is not simple present as you state here. It's unconjugated (infinitive form).

Also, the expectation that connections would become more widely available is a hypothetical future action, NOT a completed past action.

Hope that clears up the confusion ExpertsGlobal5!

ExpertsGlobal5
jabhatta2
Hi GMATNinja GraceSCKao avigutman - for the purposes of elimination between (D) and (E) specifically - many experts (Manhattan Solution- at the botttom of the post | expert 2) are suggesting that there is a difference in meaning between these 2 core sentences


Quote:

(option D) industry representatives expected the increase of piracy
vs
(option E) industry representatives expected piracy to increase


Could you perhaps elaborate what is the difference ? isn't this too subtle for the GMAT ?

Both sentences imply the same thing to me

Both sentences are in the past tense.

In both cases - the "increase of piracy" and "piracy to increase" seem to me at-least as events in the past tense and events that occur AFTER the "expectation" was made in the past tense

Hello jabhatta2,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, your reasoning is correct; there is no difference in meaning between these phrases.

The error in Option D is that it incorrectly uses the "would + simple present tense verb" construction to refer to an event that concluded in the past; please remember, the simple past tense is used to refer to events that concluded in the past, and the "would + simple present tense verb" construction is used to refer to hypothetical future actions and habitual actions in the past.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 23 Jun 2022, 03:50
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Vubar
Hi, FYI, "become" is not simple present as you state here. It's unconjugated (infinitive form).

Also, the expectation that connections would become more widely available is a hypothetical future action, NOT a completed past action.

Hope that clears up the confusion ExpertsGlobal5!

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Hello Vubar,

We hope this finds you well.

To provide some clarity here, we would like to point out that while "become" is, indeed, an unconjugated verb form - or base form, as we call it - it is also used as the simple present verb form in certain conditions, such as the third person.

Further, this sentence does not directly state the prediction made by the representatives, rather it reports what the prediction was in the simple past tense, as evidenced by the use of the simple past tense reporting verb "said"; thus, it is best to refer to the predicted actions in the simple past tense, as the sentence refers to the hypothetical future actions as predictions made in the past.

In other words, the action of connections becoming more widely available was at one point in time a hypothetical future action, but from the point of view of this sentence, it is an action that has come and gone.

Consider this example - "I thought I would grow healthier once I lost weight.": the actions of growing healthier and losing weight are actions that were once in the hypothetical future, but the use of "thought" indicates that they are now in the past.

If the reporting verb "thought" was in the present tense - "think" - then the sentence would be "I think I will grow happier once I lose weight.", since the use of the present tense indicates that the reported actions - growing healthier and losing weight - are in the future.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 23 Jun 2022, 07:54
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Evidently I wasn't able to clear up your confusion. Perhaps one of the other experts will be able to explain your two errors to you better than I have. Good luck!

Anyone else reading, please be aware that the explanation provided by EG here is incorrect and they don't seem to be aware of it.

Good luck everyone!

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Vubar
Hi, FYI, "become" is not simple present as you state here. It's unconjugated (infinitive form).

Also, the expectation that connections would become more widely available is a hypothetical future action, NOT a completed past action.

Hope that clears up the confusion ExpertsGlobal5!


Hello Vubar,

We hope this finds you well.

To provide some clarity here, we would like to point out that while "become" is, indeed, an unconjugated verb form - or base form, as we call it - it is also used as the simple present verb form in certain conditions, such as the third person.

Further, this sentence does not directly state the prediction made by the representatives, rather it reports what the prediction was in the simple past tense, as evidenced by the use of the simple past tense reporting verb "said"; thus, it is best to refer to the predicted actions in the simple past tense, as the sentence refers to the hypothetical future actions as predictions made in the past.

In other words, the action of connections becoming more widely available was at one point in time a hypothetical future action, but from the point of view of this sentence, it is an action that has come and gone.

Consider this example - "I thought I would grow healthier once I lost weight.": the actions of growing healthier and losing weight are actions that were once in the hypothetical future, but the use of "thought" indicates that they are now in the past.

If the reporting verb "thought" was in the present tense - "think" - then the sentence would be "I think I will grow happier once I lose weight.", since the use of the present tense indicates that the reported actions - growing healthier and losing weight - are in the future.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
Experts' Global Team
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 28 Jun 2022, 23:37
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Can someone please help me understand why you can use comma and for a dependent phrase here? I thought you can only use the comma and for a list of more than three items and connecting two independent clauses.
(D) online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available
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