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555-605 (Medium)|   Idioms/Diction/Redundancy|   Parallelism|   Verb Tense/Form|                        
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 29 Jun 2022, 15:24
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phambrenda
Can someone please help me understand why you can use comma and for a dependent phrase here? I thought you can only use the comma and for a list of more than three items and connecting two independent clauses.
(D) online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available
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The short answer is that many people/schools teach things as rules, when really they are more guidelines.

A comma can be used anywhere a pause would help the reader understand the sentence. This would usually be the case if the sentence is particularly long. So there is no rule that says ", and" can't be used with just two items in a list. It's not common, but it's not something to be used to eliminate an answer either.

Side-note: but it's a bit of a peeve of mine when things are taught as rules that aren't. That's the most common thing I have had to help people get over, when I've helped people in our study group with verbal.

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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 29 Jun 2022, 15:30
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Vubar
phambrenda
Can someone please help me understand why you can use comma and for a dependent phrase here? I thought you can only use the comma and for a list of more than three items and connecting two independent clauses.
(D) online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available
The short answer is that many people/schools teach things as rules, when really they are more guidelines.

A comma can be used anywhere a pause would help the reader understand the sentence. This would usually be the case if the sentence is particularly long. So there is no rule that says ", and" can't be used with just two items in a list. It's not common, but it's not something to be used to eliminate an answer either.

Side-note: but it's a bit of a peeve of mine when things are taught as rules that aren't. That's the most common thing I have had to help people get over, when I've helped people in our study group with verbal.

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Ah got it! Yeah I saw that rule in Manhattan prep haha. Btw I saw you get a shout out for gmatninja 24 hour crash course!!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 29 Jun 2022, 15:42
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Interesting! Manhattan normally are pretty good with that kind of thing... I might have to check my copy of the verbal book to see what they say there haha.

And yeah, it was a nice event. I just tried to support a little bit haha.

phambrenda
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phambrenda
Can someone please help me understand why you can use comma and for a dependent phrase here? I thought you can only use the comma and for a list of more than three items and connecting two independent clauses.
(D) online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available
The short answer is that many people/schools teach things as rules, when really they are more guidelines.

A comma can be used anywhere a pause would help the reader understand the sentence. This would usually be the case if the sentence is particularly long. So there is no rule that says ", and" can't be used with just two items in a list. It's not common, but it's not something to be used to eliminate an answer either.

Side-note: but it's a bit of a peeve of mine when things are taught as rules that aren't. That's the most common thing I have had to help people get over, when I've helped people in our study group with verbal.

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Ah got it! Yeah I saw that rule in Manhattan prep haha. Btw I saw you get a shout out for gmatninja 24 hour crash course!!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 29 Jun 2022, 16:09
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Vubar
Interesting! Manhattan normally are pretty good with that kind of thing... I might have to check my copy of the verbal book to see what they say there haha.

And yeah, it was a nice event. I just tried to support a little

Ah got it! Yeah I saw that rule in Manhattan prep haha. Btw I saw you get a shout out for gmatninja 24 hour crash course!!
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[/quote]

I’m still kind of new and for some reason can’t figure out how to PM you but if you’re looking for a study buddy my test is in two weeks :)

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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 29 Jun 2022, 16:24
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No worries! Feel free to join our study group! (Hopefully you can see the link in my signature?)

I'll be happy to help if I can :)

I'm planning to take the exam again but not too soon tbh, so I need to avoid getting too rusty!

phambrenda
Vubar
Interesting! Manhattan normally are pretty good with that kind of thing... I might have to check my copy of the verbal book to see what they say there haha.

And yeah, it was a nice event. I just tried to support a little

Ah got it! Yeah I saw that rule in Manhattan prep haha. Btw I saw you get a shout out for gmatninja 24 hour crash course!!
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I’m still kind of new and for some reason can’t figure out how to PM you but if you’re looking for a study buddy my test is in two weeks :)

Posted from my mobile device[/quote]
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 29 Jun 2022, 16:26
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Vubar
No worries! Feel free to join our study group! (Hopefully you can see the link in my signature?)

I'll be happy to help if I can :)

I'm planning to take the exam again but not too soon tbh, so I need to avoid getting too rusty!

phambrenda
Vubar
Interesting! Manhattan normally are pretty good with that kind of thing... I might have to check my copy of the verbal book to see what they say there haha.

And yeah, it was a nice event. I just tried to support a little

Ah got it! Yeah I saw that rule in Manhattan prep haha. Btw I saw you get a shout out for gmatninja 24 hour crash course!!

I’m still kind of new and for some reason can’t figure out how to PM you but if you’re looking for a study buddy my test is in two weeks :)

Posted from my mobile device
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[/quote]

Can you please send it to me? I’m not seeing it
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 29 Jun 2022, 23:00
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phambrenda


Can you let me know which part of our curriculum you were looking at? There are definitely no such concrete rules about comma usage, so I want to make sure whatever we printed was clear on that. Thanks!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 01 Jul 2022, 14:01
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phambrenda
Can someone please help me understand why you can use comma and for a dependent phrase here? I thought you can only use the comma and for a list of more than three items and connecting two independent clauses.
(D) online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available
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I'm a little bit late to the party, but we attempted to address this question earlier in the thread: https://gmatclub.com/forum/at-the-end-o ... l#p2603846. If that doesn't do the trick, just let us know if you still have questions.

Also, I imagine that the study group organized by Vubar is a ton of fun. He was one of the most visible supporters of my marathon madness, so at the very least, the guy is excellent at all-nighters! ;)
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 02 Jul 2022, 06:51
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that there were about a million copies of Hollywood movies available online and expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available.


(A) online and motion picture industry representatives expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available

(B) online and motion picture industry representatives expect the increase of piracy with the wider availability of high-speed Internet connections

(C) online, and motion picture industry representatives they expect more piracy to increase with the wider availability of high-speed Internet connections

(D) online, and motion picture industry representatives said that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available

(E) online, and motion picture industry representatives said that that they expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 03 Jul 2022, 23:41
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Can someone explain me why there is a comma between "online *,* and that"

This highlights an initiation of a new independent clause.

For the very same reason I wasn't choosing option E
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 04 Jul 2022, 00:04
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milanrajb
Can someone explain me why there is a comma between "online *,* and that"

This highlights an initiation of a new independent clause.

For the very same reason I wasn't choosing option E
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Milan, the same has been discussed multiple times by multiple experts in this thread. So, if you could just do a little digging, I am sure you will have your query answered.
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 25 Jul 2022, 02:32
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Hi, I have doubts in below options.

(A) online and expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available



Will option A be correct if- '' online and they expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections BECOMING more widely available

Is it ok to use modifiers here v/s verb (became) in option E. I guess meaning derived is same?

I generally get confused when I see ''with...'' phrase. Is this usage correct here.

'that' at the start (said that) can be taken common for 2nd part (and that they expected) ?


(D) online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available

(E) online, and that they expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available



in option D and E- ''expected the increase of piracy'' v/s ''expected the piracy to increase'' - meaning looks same to me. Is it so?
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 25 Jul 2022, 04:27
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himanshu0123
Hi, I have doubts in below options.

(A) online and expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections that become more widely available



Will option A be correct if- '' online and they expected piracy to increase with high-speed Internet connections BECOMING more widely available

Is it ok to use modifiers here v/s verb (became) in option E. I guess meaning derived is same?

I generally get confused when I see ''with...'' phrase. Is this usage correct here.

'that' at the start (said that) can be taken common for 2nd part (and that they expected) ?


(D) online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available

(E) online, and that they expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available



in option D and E- ''expected the increase of piracy'' v/s ''expected the piracy to increase'' - meaning looks same to me. Is it so?
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Hello himanshu0123,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your queries, your version of Option A is correct, and yes; D and E convey the same meaning.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 31 Jul 2022, 03:05
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himanshu0123


"The increase" in D is a little funny, and doesn't convey quite the same thing as the version in E. By placing "the" in front of increase, we're implying that there WAS actually an increase, and that the representatives successfully predicted it. That's not the same thing as saying that they thought an increase would occur. For instance, if I think there will be a rainstorm today, I might "expect a rainstorm" or "expect the weather to turn stormy." But if I say "I expect the rainstorm," you'd wonder "What rainstorm?"
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 25 Oct 2022, 18:37
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I'd like to add one more explanation to why D doesn't make sense

In direct speech, the below two scenarios are possible:

1. We expect the increase of piracy as high speed internet connections will become more widely available
2. We expect piracy to increase as high speed internet connections become more widely available

according to which both D and E seems fair. But, if we consider the indirect speech individually,

D. ...they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available

Correct usage of would: As water would become widely [Future in the past] available, we can do farming [Referring to future]
Usage in D: As water would become widely [Future in the past] available, we did farming [Referring to past, a construction that is non-sensical]

E. ...they expected piracy to increase as high-speed Internet connections became more widely available

Makes sense as both the events are in past
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 06 May 2023, 04:48
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GMATNinja ChiranjeevSingh

In option D "online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available", is the use of 'would become' incorrect?

Does 'would become' represents hypothetical scenario (would + base verb)?
Can it not be past form of 'will'. Eg: The scientist believed that the machine would be wonderful. (would + base verb - used with past tense to represent expectation of future from the POV of past)?

Is the usage wrong because it is used with 'as' (representing simultaneous events) and thus, 'would become' needs to be written in past tense form.

Please help to clarify the doubt.

Thanks in advance!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 07 May 2023, 07:15
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ShubhamAgarwal
GMATNinja ChiranjeevSingh

In option D "online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available", is the use of 'would become' incorrect?

Does 'would become' represents hypothetical scenario (would + base verb)?
Can it not be past form of 'will'. Eg: The scientist believed that the machine would be wonderful. (would + base verb - used with past tense to represent expectation of future from the POV of past)?

Is the usage wrong because it is used with 'as' (representing simultaneous events) and thus, 'would become' needs to be written in past tense form.

Please help to clarify the doubt.

Thanks in advance!
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Hello ShubhamAgarwal,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, your reasoning here is correct; Option D incorrectly uses the "would + simple present tense verb" construction to refer to an event that concluded in the past; please remember, the simple past tense is used to refer to events that concluded in the past, and the "would + simple present tense verb" construction is used to refer to hypothetical future actions and habitual actions in the past.

Kudos.
All the best!
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 23 May 2023, 11:07
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ShubhamAgarwal
GMATNinja ChiranjeevSingh

In option D "online, and that they expected the increase of piracy as high-speed Internet connections would become more widely available", is the use of 'would become' incorrect?

Does 'would become' represents hypothetical scenario (would + base verb)?

Can it not be past form of 'will'. Eg: The scientist believed that the machine would be wonderful. (would + base verb - used with past tense to represent expectation of future from the POV of past)?

Is the usage wrong because it is used with 'as' (representing simultaneous events) and thus, 'would become' needs to be written in past tense form.

Please help to clarify the doubt.

Thanks in advance!
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Please check out these two posts, and let us know if you still have questions!

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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 18 Jun 2023, 05:08
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Hi GMATNinja AndrewN egmat
Is option D also incorrect because it uses 'would become'?
I thought E was incorrect since it uses 'became', given that we're talking about the future
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At the end of 2001, motion picture industry representatives said that 23 Jun 2023, 01:31
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anshgupta_2

Yes, "would become" is wrong. We'd use that for a future hypothetical: "If this impacted your salary, I would become more concerned."

As for "became," think about how we'd say it in the present: "They EXPECT piracy to increase as connections BECOME more widely available." Even though we are looking forward, we use a present verb to describe the trend of connections becoming more available. So when we write in the past tense, we just shift both verbs to the past: "They EXPECTED piracy to increase as connections BECAME more available."
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