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That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the

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That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 23 Oct 2012, 15:52
9
23
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A
B
C
D
E

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That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still causes regret among modern Western Christian thinkers.


(A) had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still causes

(B) if it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still cause

(C) if they addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church instead of simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, they might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still cause

(D) if they addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church instead of simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, they could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still a cause of

(E) if it had addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply having shored up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, it might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still a cause of



See a full discussion of this question, and a full discussion of noun clauses (a.k.a. substantive clauses) in general, see this blog:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/substantiv ... -the-gmat/

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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 24 Oct 2012, 10:17
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That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still causes regret among modern Western Christian thinkers.
(A) had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still causes
=> correct one with
(B) if it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still cause
=> THEIR here stands ambiguously CONCERNS or REFORMERS. Also, these two references are also wrong in term of meanings.

(C) if they addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church instead of simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, they might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still cause
=> there are no references for THEY to stand for

(D) if they addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church instead of simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, they could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still a cause of
=> the same meaning as the answer above.

(E) if it had addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply having shored up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, it might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still a cause of
=> having shored here is wrong in term of tense when HAVING SHORED is the verb that maybe happened and is not the same tense as ADDRESSED.
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 24 Oct 2012, 10:59
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The blue letters and long answer choices threw me off. But quite a simple one as 3 of the options can easily be eliminated. Between A and E, E has a problem with ambiguous pronouns. So A should be the answer.
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Oct 2012, 22:59
mikemcgarry wrote:
That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still causes regret among modern Western Christian thinkers.
(A) had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still causes
(B) if it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still cause
(C) if they addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church instead of simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, they might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still cause
(D) if they addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church instead of simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, they could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still a cause of
(E) if it had addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply having shored up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, it might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still a cause of


See a full discussion of this question, and a full discussion of noun clauses (a.k.a. substantive clauses) in general, see this blog:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/substantiv ... -the-gmat/


A:Correct.
B:Wrong. Their cannot refer to singular "Fifth Lateran Council".
C:Wrong. They cannot refer to singular "Fifth Lateran Council".
D:Wrong. They cannot refer to singular "Fifth Lateran Council".
E:Wrong. Here "still a cause of" seems to modify the Protestant Reformation where as it should modify the "Fifth Lateran Council".
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Apr 2013, 04:15
Is there a flaw in choice A? That is, should "had it addressed" be parallel to "simply shoring up," making a more correct sentence "simply shored up?"

That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still causes regret among modern Western Christian thinkers.
(A) had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still causes
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Apr 2013, 10:21
banaorange wrote:
Is there a flaw in choice A? That is, should "had it addressed" be parallel to "simply shoring up," making a more correct sentence "simply shored up?"

That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still causes regret among modern Western Christian thinkers.
(A) had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still causes

Dear banaorange,
That's actually what I would call "False Parallelism" --- matching the verb forms without regard for the structure. To some extent, this is an idiomatic grammatical structure. Notice that "addressed" is an action the Council didn't do --- it's in the subjunctive, because it's hypothetical. By contrast, "shoring up" is an action the Council did do --- it's real, historical, not hypothetical. The idiom for this form is

Had [subject] done X rather than doing Y

Here, "than" functions as a preposition with a gerund object.

For more on the subjunctive, see this post:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-gramm ... ive-tense/
For more on gerunds:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-gramm ... d-phrases/

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Apr 2013, 21:47
Hi Mike,

Thanks for the awesome hard question.
In the above question "That the Fifth Lateran Council" is acting as the subject for the verbs beginning with " had it addressed ", "could have avoided and still causes" . Is this type of construction valid. P.S . The three verbs do not form a list and there are no conjunctions used.
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Apr 2013, 10:34
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saikarthikreddy wrote:
Hi Mike,

Thanks for the awesome hard question.
In the above question "That the Fifth Lateran Council" is acting as the subject for the verbs beginning with " had it addressed ", "could have avoided and still causes" . Is this type of construction valid. P.S . The three verbs do not form a list and there are no conjunctions used.

Dear saikarthikreddy,
With all due respect, I think you don't quite understand the grammar of the sentence.

This part -----
"had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe" is a modifying clause. The subject of the verb "addressed" is the pronoun "it"

Take that modifier out. Still, inside the "that" clause, we have the clause ---
"....the Fifth Lateran Council .....could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation...."
Here, the subject of the verb "could have avoided" is "the Fifth Lateran Council".

Now, step back to the entire sentence. The main verb is "causes", and the subject of this verb is the entire "that"-clause. The "that" clause is a substantive clause, a clause that takes a noun role in a sentence, and thus it can act as the subject of the sentence.

So, you see, those three verbs are not in parallel ---each one has a different subject, and each one is the main verb at a different grammatical level within the sentence.

Does all this make sense?

Mike :-)
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Apr 2013, 11:59
Thanks mike .It makes sense now !!
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 17 Apr 2013, 11:23
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saikarthikreddy wrote:
Thanks mike .It makes sense now !!

You are more than welcome, my friend.
Mike :-)
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2013, 22:59
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A

first, A looked wrong to me :)

then, eliminated C and D for using "they" to refer to Council

eliminated E for not having a verb in the main clause

eliminated B for using "cause" instead of "causes"
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Aug 2013, 21:15
mikemcgarry wrote:
That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still causes regret among modern Western Christian thinkers.
(A) had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still causes
(B) if it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still cause
(C) if they addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church instead of simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, they might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still cause
(D) if they addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church instead of simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, they could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still a cause of
(E) if it had addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply having shored up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, it might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still a cause of


See a full discussion of this question, and a full discussion of noun clauses (a.k.a. substantive clauses) in general, see this blog:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/substantiv ... -the-gmat/


Option A is correct.

Option B,C,D is incorrect because of incorrect use of "their" for singular "Fifth Lateran Council"

Option E is incorrect because of several reasons :
1. ambiguous pronouns
2. Use of comma is incorrect before "it might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation" .
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Aug 2013, 23:57
I got the correct ans but took 2.36 mins:(. so as got as getting wrong.
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Oct 2015, 18:28
B, C, and D out because of the pronouns "they"/"their"
E is out because the main clause has 2 subjects - The council - long modifier - it... A is the winner.
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Apr 2016, 02:52
mikemcgarry wrote:
That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still causes regret among modern Western Christian thinkers.
(A) had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still causes
(B) if it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still cause
(C) if they addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church instead of simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, they might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still cause
(D) if they addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church instead of simply shoring up their own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, they could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still a cause of
(E) if it had addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply having shored up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, it might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still a cause of[/color]

See a full discussion of this question, and a full discussion of noun clauses (a.k.a. substantive clauses) in general, see this blog:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/substantiv ... -the-gmat/


Hello Mike,

I attempted this question on official Magoosh page after going through your awesome article on "that". The only reason I got this question wrong is because this question does not have a comma (in its original stem i.e Choice A) after Protestant Reformation on official Magoosh Page. I have highlighted that part above. Following is the link to it:
http://gmat.magoosh.com/questions/3218

I'd request you to quickly rectify this error. Again thanks for sharing all those awesome articles.
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Apr 2016, 10:42
Devlikes wrote:
Hello Mike,

I attempted this question on official Magoosh page after going through your awesome article on "that". The only reason I got this question wrong is because this question does not have a comma (in its original stem i.e Choice A) after Protestant Reformation on official Magoosh Page. I have highlighted that part above. Following is the link to it:
http://gmat.magoosh.com/questions/3218

I'd request you to quickly rectify this error. Again thanks for sharing all those awesome articles.
Devansh

I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, it's important to understand that in this case and in many cases, a comma is optional. Neither the presence or the absence of the comma is strictly 100% right or 100% wrong. The comma there does add a little clarity but it detracts a bit from the flow of the sentence, so it's a trade-off. When I wrote this SC problem originally, I put that comma in, thinking it would provide more clarity. Then, numerous Magoosh students wrote in complaining about the presence of this comma, among other things, so we revised the question in a few ways, and chose to leave out the comma in the revision. Thus, it's ironic that you now complain about the absence of the comma, just as convinced that the absence is a mistake as others were convinced that its presence was a mistake. In fact, it's in a gray area, and there's a reasonably good argument to made in either direction.

Keep in mind that, on the real GMAT, no answer choice would ever be wrong purely on the basis of a comma. Don't let the presence or absence of a comma cloud the issue of the fundamental grammatical organization of a sentence.

Also, notice that you were confused on a question, you got it wrong, and you went to the assumption that there was an error in the question itself. This direction of thought, looking for the source of the difficulty outside of yourself, will not help you prepare for the GMAT. As it happens, there is no error here, but even if there were, that would not be a win for you in any meaningful way. It's one of the habits of excellence always to look inward when one has made a mistake: what can I learn from this? how can I deepen my understanding? That's the direction of inquiry that will bring you the most progress--in your preparation for the GMAT, in your B-school studies, and in your career. One of the fundamental marks of leadership is the ability to take deep responsibility, and I believe that it's precisely by expanding our capacity for responsibility that we all grow.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 27 May 2016, 03:45
Hey Mike

Cz the situation boils down to A & E my trail of thoughts for meaning was :-

(E) if it had addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply having shored up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, it might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still a cause of

The It in the red is kind of placeholder, and in general we would write this construction if there cannot be any other antecedent of IT, It i believe in such situations refers to as what could have been done, However there is a use of another It at the start puts the whole pronoun and placeholder thing in jeopardy...Hence for meaning i opted out of E.


I hope i am correct in concluding the meaning, and should i go with such approach in actual GMAT Questions?

Meaning over Grammar only if i cant spot the real issues.
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 27 May 2016, 08:15
mikemcgarry wrote:
banaorange wrote:
Is there a flaw in choice A? That is, should "had it addressed" be parallel to "simply shoring up," making a more correct sentence "simply shored up?"

That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still causes regret among modern Western Christian thinkers.
(A) had it addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply shoring up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, could have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation still causes

Dear banaorange,
That's actually what I would call "False Parallelism" --- matching the verb forms without regard for the structure. To some extent, this is an idiomatic grammatical structure. Notice that "addressed" is an action the Council didn't do --- it's in the subjunctive, because it's hypothetical. By contrast, "shoring up" is an action the Council did do --- it's real, historical, not hypothetical. The idiom for this form is

Had [subject] done X rather than doing Y

Here, "than" functions as a preposition with a gerund object.

For more on the subjunctive, see this post:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-gramm ... ive-tense/
For more on gerunds:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-gramm ... d-phrases/

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


i have some thought

rather than is different from instead of . quite different. in this forum, there is unofficial question which test this point

instead of leaning gmat, i learn grammar
is correct sentence
rather than of learning gmat, i learn garmmar
is INCORRECT.
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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 27 May 2016, 08:23
this means choice A is incorrect

but this point is not approved by an official questions. we need to see rather than, and instead of in good dictionary to approve this point


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Re: That the Fifth Lateran Council (1512 – 1517), [u]had it addressed the  [#permalink]

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New post 27 May 2016, 14:11
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umg4147 wrote:
Hey Mike

Cz the situation boils down to A & E my trail of thoughts for meaning was :-

(E) if it had addressed the growing concerns of reformers within the Catholic Church rather than simply having shored up its own political prerogatives with respect to the monarchies of Western Europe, it might have avoided the series of events that led to the Protestant Reformation, still a cause of

The It in the red is kind of placeholder, and in general we would write this construction if there cannot be any other antecedent of IT, It i believe in such situations refers to as what could have been done, However there is a use of another It at the start puts the whole pronoun and placeholder thing in jeopardy...Hence for meaning i opted out of E.

I hope i am correct in concluding the meaning, and should i go with such approach in actual GMAT Questions?

Meaning over Grammar only if i cant spot the real issues.

Dear umg4147,
I'm happy to respond. :-)

Actually, that "it" is not a placeholder it: it is simply incorrect. See this blog:
The Empty ‘It’ on the GMAT Sentence Correction

A placeholding "it" would come before the verb and the clause or infinitive it represented would come after the verb.
It is unfortunate that X is Y.
The "it" in this sentence comes immediately after the clause, between the clause and the verb. This is wrong 100% of the time.
That X is Y, it is unfortunate. = always wrong.

Does this make sense?
thangvietnam wrote:
i have some thought

rather than is different from instead of . quite different. in this forum, there is unofficial question which test this point

instead of leaning gmat, i learn grammar
is correct sentence
rather than of learning gmat, i learn garmmar
is INCORRECT.

this means choice A is incorrect

but this point is not approved by an official questions. we need to see rather than, and instead of in good dictionary to approve this point

am looking for the British girl in Bradford, who visited Halong bay, Vietnam on 26-27 Jan 2014 on the boat Sunrise. everybody, pls, forward this message to all persons you know on internet to help me find her. Thanks.

Dear thangvietnam,
I'm happy to respond. :-) I have a few comments.

Instead of learning studying grammar for the GMAT, I study it for its own sake.
That sentence would pass as correct in ordinary colloquial English, and it is grammatically correct, but it would not be correct on the GMAT. The GMAT tends to avoid the colloquial structure "instead of," even when it would be grammatically correct.
Rather than study grammar for the GMAT, I study it for its own sake.
That version is 100% correct and GMAT worthy. Notice that there is no "of" after "rather than." The "rather than" structure establishes parallelism, so we can have a full verb mirroring the full verb in the main clause. Having a gerund following "rather than" is also correct. Choice (A) uses "rather than." Only the incorrect choices use "instead of." How is this a "point is not approved by an official questions"?

I will also say, my friend, this is a public forum and a prelude to you professional life. Among the thousand readers of this forum, some may one day be your employers, your colleagues, your superiors, your partners, your customers, etc. etc. You never know who is reading your words and who is making judgments about you, judgments that may affect you later. In this life, you never get a second chance to make a first impression, and psychological research has documented the overwhelming impact of first impressions. In your post, you have numerous spelling mistakes and other features that do not conform to standard written English. Because I know you, I know you are capable of a much higher standard of expression in written language, but someone encountering you for the first time might think that your command of English were poor. Don't you see there is always a risk in presenting yourself as anything less than your best? It's one of the habits of excellence to bring the best of yourself to any occasion. Finally, as this is a profession forum, any comments about personal issues are entirely inappropriate here. If you used work email to solicit romantic attention from someone, that may constitute grounds for sexual harassment. This is a very serious workplace issue, and any infraction, however innocently conceived, can cost folks their jobs. It is best to keep everything as professional as possible.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
_________________

Mike McGarry
Magoosh Test Prep

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Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire. — William Butler Yeats (1865 – 1939)

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